Buffalo Skipper

As many of you know, I stepped into the SM role officially in December (I am the troop's 27th SM in 72 years), but I have been filling the shoes since September. When I came to this troop as a visiting Cubmaster (units sharing CO), I was identified as a replacement SM 3 years in advance. I was interested in eventually stepping into a position as this, so nearly 2 years were spent "grooming" me for this position before it was ever even said out loud what was seen as the next SM. But we were all adults, the SM and committee members knew I was interested, and everyone understood what was happening. Last year, I worked my replacement Cubmaster into the position, and I began camping with the troop, and I even went to summer camp with them last year. All this while my son was still a Cub Scout. My reasoning was that I wanted to have the scouts in the troop become comfortable with me as an adult leader before my son joined the troop. I think this has been a wise choice, but with my son's first campout this weekend as a boy scout, we will see. I have been on the job for less than 4 months, but I have already identified my replacement (recruiting and training him is next). He is the Cubmaster of our charter organization's other pack, and he earned his Eagle with our troop nearly 20 years ago; in the 70 year history of our troop, his father was one of the longest tenured SMs. He and I are going to sit down for coffee one evening next week and talk about the future of the troop (and his and my place in that future). I have no desire to step down anytime soon, in fact, thought I considered being Cubmaster the most fun (and easiest) job in scouting, I think of SM as being the most rewarding and fullfilling (but in many ways the most demanding). I know I said this in another post a few weeks ago, but choosing and training one's replacement is one of my most important responsibilities to my unit. It is the best way of ensuring the continued success of your unit.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

HiLo, I have been through a number of disasters (mainly hurricanes), but they pale to the degree of absolute destruction which is caused by bushfires. It is truly beyond my abilty to fully grasp. Or hearts and prayers will continue to be with you as you work through the recovery and rebuilding. Admitedly, I know very little about scouting down under, beyond what I have read from our participants there. But it does sound like you have an active program which is closely tied to your communities. I hope this experience only works to strenthen your program. Be well, and keep us posted.

Years ago, I had a friend who was stationed at the local navy base for a few years. He was a young officer and he had a Range Rover. He was also the part-time Sailing team coach for the local university. We used to actually go off road in his. It would sometimes take us hours to get the it all clean again. His attitude was that it may look cool with all the mud, but that just couldn't be good for the car to keep it on there the whole time (he was an officer who hung out at the Yacht Club--he had an image to uphold!) Dave and I had long debates about standard vs automatic transmission off road. He never did get it. But I really did like his Range Rover, even if it was designed by British engineers. Back on topic. I did look over the instructions for the Taurus (don't tell my wife, it would ruin my reputation!), and I now see how the tent guys are used on the rain fly. Looks simple enough. They even provided some reasonably dececent cord and tensioner. So far, I am very impressed with the tent. We will see how the scouts do with it this weekend. I will certainly provide an update on Monday.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

I think OGE has it right here, but without ranting on the topic, let me go back to what I originally said. First, can we find out if this is being seriously discussed? If it is, what can we do--before it becomes a policy change and affects patrols who do go camping. I will certainly be glad to work up letters from our council and area to go to someone at national concerning this. The fact is, in order to repsond, responsibly, I need information. Where do I get this? Wouldn't this be a great opprotunity to involve your scouts (patrols) in addressing this issue? I think that would be a great lesson on how getting involved may make a difference. Think about it....

Brent, As I was reading the overnight posts, I was thinking the same thing as you. I can't take my son and 3 of his friends (who happen to be in his patrol--isn't that what scouts is promoting with patrols--making friends?) to play laser tag because if enough troop friends show up it would be considered a defacto troop event. That is hogwash.

I deciced to add a 3rd mystery bag. This one will be a bunch of junk. Some phillips head screws, a slotted screwdriver, an ink pen, and clothes pins. Certainly they can make use of these items, but they are less functional than what is in the other bags....

Thank you for your replies and PMs. The truth is that we had already bought ten Alps/SD Taurus 2. We choose the the FG poles rather than the AL (our treasurer is very tight with money and could not justify the 10 oz weight savings for a 33% price increase). So we ended up with these tents for about $85 with footprints. I do have a question on the footprints, if you use them (there are no instructions with the footprints). This isn't rocket science, but I'm not planning on staying at a Holiday Inn Express tonight either. Do you feed the loops (on the footprint corner straps) throught the corner rings on the tent, and then over the pin? This seems to create a good fit, but I hate it when a footprint is hanging slightly over the end of the tent and water can pool between the footprint and the tent floor. Likewise, have you had any problems with these tent floors? Also how often do you apply seam sealer and waterproofing? 1x a year? When new? We are camping this weekend with these tents for the first time. We replaced Coleman 7x7 "Lantern" tents--essentially 4' high dome tents being used for 2 scouts (they were like big messy scout condos). These are 6" longer and 2' narrower, but they have vestibules for gear. They served us well for 6 years with a purchase cost of $40 each. I was working hard to steer us to a more functional tent, which for the cost was met with a surprising amount of resistance by some adults. These are actually about 2 lbs lighter than the Lanterns, which we sometimes used for backpacking, so this will be a better for the scouts, especially with the vestibule.

Absolutely. Anyone who is working with the VOA should be wearing silver, not green tabs.

I am very distressed about this change. I really think it undermines what scouting should be about. I have been working hard with my SPL to build patrols' skills so that they can go on overnighters without adults. This will severely undermine my credibility with my scouts, but I will live if I loose a little face. On the otherhand, it removes this as a goal for my growing scouts. Who can I write to complain about this potential change? After all, of all the incidents which have occurred which made national news in the past few years, how many of these incidents were while on Patrol activities without adult supervision? Luckily for us in the meantime, I have worked with our council Program Director, who knows our older scouts sometimes camp without adults, and there have been no complaints thus far.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Keep in mind that there are 2 levels which need to be considered. One is an IRS recognized donation as a income tax decuction; the other is a state sales tax exemption. A federal 501©(3) does not guarantee exemption from State Sales tax, nor does it necessarily guarantee donations to be exempt from state income tax. This will vary greatly from state to state. As an example, in Florida, it takes 5 minutes to fill out and complete the state tax exemption forms. This does several things. One, it gives a unit "status" capeable of "owning" things, such as trailers, boats, etc (that is not to say I recomend this, only that it gives that status; the CO should own these types of things). It also gives your organization exemption from paying state sales tax on purchases, which may be what you are really seeking. But if you accept a donation, the state tax exemption form does not give the doner a viable write off for the purposes of Federal Income tax, as this is not a federally recognized 501©(3). (Florida, by the way, has no state income tax) You should look into California's tax laws carefully before you assume anything on a "tax exempt status." (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Allegedly the tents made for Alps Mountaineering come from the same factory as REI. To find comperable tents, I guess I am comparing the REI Half-dome (169.99 with the Taurus 2AL (109.00 (scout direct price). Same height, very similar floor dims (Taurus is listed as 6" wider). So how close are these two tents in features and quality? I have not actually seen the Taurus yet (maybe tonight) and I have never seen a Half-dome in person.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Good suggestions. We do use ScoutDirect/Alps Mountaineering. In fact, I just found out 5 minutes ago that our 10 new troop tents arrived this morning (Yea, just in time for the weekend campout!). I did see the dining fly/shelter, however, I could not find a regular tarp. I did like the mosquito hammock fly. I do not know if that is really the size we want or not. We will see. At this weekend's campout, we will be taking all our poly tarps and may will try to rig different set-ups to see what works, and what size we may end up seeking.

Respectfully, it is the youth (not the council) who are responsible for organizing a Venture Officers' Association (VOA). But this is a chicken and egg situation. If the venturers do not know what the VOA is or that it can exist, how are they supposed to organize it or know what to organize. We are at that point now, and through our Venturing Forum, the venturers are taking ownership of their training and activities. I am working to "foster" a VOA. We may have to introduce it to them, but they must act and create it. I was the council president of the EPA (Explorer President's Association) for 2 years back in the day. This was the equivelant of the VOA today, so I have some expertise in this area. Few folks in or out of scouting know what this was (or in the case of VOA is), but I consider this my most significant achievement in scouting, even over my Eagle and all my palms. It really helped mold me into who I am now. Far more leadership experience than being ship's bosun, troop SPL, National Jamboree contingent troop PL or 2 years on camp staff (combined).

Moxieman, thanks for doing a better job of explaining what I had in mind. Yes, 4 items each and the plane is engulfed in flames, no more. I intend to do this on a picnic table right in front of the other scouts, so they can see exactly what is chosen. Because of the time factor, they cannot test equipment, just silently pick it out. After this, we will drive them out to the site, while the other scouts have lunch. I will give them the coffee can at that time (I have already packed it, except for one of the scout's phones, which will be sealed in the emergency kit). I do like the idea of giving them a non-working flashlight. Maybe I'll just put the batteries in backwards, and see if they can figure it out. I want them to have challenges. And maybe I can make a 3rd "Mystery bag" of completely useless stuff. What do you think of having the entire troop hike out to the site to see what they have done on Sunday morning, and then hike back together? This may give these boys a chance to see what they can do in the next year or two.

Eagle92, I am sorry to hear that your program was not planned better. We are fortunate that we have a great facility to use here (and have for several years) in which we can have indoor grilling (large wood stove heater) and enough room to even set up tents if needed. Changing the subject, I am curious about your water bottle knot. I "collect" knots (I have a 2" thick binder of knot pages--over 120 variations of the bowline), and dabble a little with some theory. Is this the same as the "jug knot" as shown here: http://www.ropeworks.biz/archive/jugknot.html, or is it a different one. Inquiring minds want to know.

Shortridge, I like the way you think. It reminds me of several leadership/survival games in which I have participated. Thinking about it from this perspective gives a whole different feel. By the way there will be 4 scouts participating, all 16 or 17. OK, how is this? Your small plane crashes. You each have the following items: Camera Clothes on your back (nothing in your pockets) 1 pocket knife 1 liter bottle of water Lay the following out on a table and give them two minutes (without speaking) to pick out4 items each: (3) Visqueen sheets (remember, there are 4 scouts) (4) Assorted 3-6 lengths of binders twine (4) garbage bags (4) Assorted pop cans (3) Small bungee cords (2) Floor mats Paperback book Small flashlight (doesnt work) Smaller flashlight (does work) Sun Screen Can of peaches Safety pins Candle Bug repellent (liquid) Mystery bag 4 matches small duct tape cassette tape 5 wooden popsicle sticks salt and pepper Mystery bag steel wool 9 volt battery 4 nails 5 wooden popsicle sticks bouillon cubes (There are 30 items here and they may choose up to 16) Finally, I will give a #10 can with the following items inside: 50 of fishing line, a hook sinker and a small bobber Magnifying glass Small first aid kit 1 pound of hamburger 1 Herseys Bar (for starting fires) Sealed Emergency kit with: cell phone, whistle I will give the scouts only the items at the top, and I will not tell them what is in the can except the emergency phone/whistle(they can find it near the crash site). Is this better?

I like games! But this would have been easier if there were 7 or 8 to pick. But it is your game and I will follow your rules. This is really close to several of you but still unique: 1) Swimming 2) First Aid 3) Camping 4) Hiking 5) Cooking (It would have been nice to add 2 or 3 more. I could have had a slightly more rounded scout.)

I just spoke to a friend of mine who was a previous aquatics and later the program director at the camp. He said they still have a teriffic program. He said their high adventure really excels. The have a 50 miler (backpacking or canoeing), excellent climbing (tower and natural rock) and caving. He said he has heard of no decline with the current CD. I know of a troop who attended 2007. Great feedback but I can offer no specifics.

Here is what I had in mind (This is more than I was given when I did this as a scout, by the way): Pocket knife Clothing (extra layer) 1 5x6 tarp per person 2 matches 12 binders twine small First Aid kit Total 1 pound of hamburger (I never had the tarp or the twine). But I am beginning to re-think this based upon what you all have suggested. I do like the idea of space, like in a #10 can, with which they may cook. I also like the idea of fishing line. They will 50ish yards from a natural (not dammed) lake, which is so remote at our scout camp, I doubt it is fished 3x a year. The lake is filled with leaches, so that should discourage swimming. I also like the idea of a cell phone (GPS is simply unnecessary where they will be) in a sealed bag. Coverage is good at the camp, so they could call us and we could be there in 3 minutes if absolutely necessary. I was hiking out there back in October (scouting it out for them when I was at the camp with the Cub Scouts, not the troop) and we saw a 4' coral snake (a real monster by coral snake standards!). Keep the ideas coming and I will refine my list. I do want to give the scouts the decisions, to a point. This is good stuff!(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Stosh, Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree with you about quality over speed. I also intend to work the troop (via the SPL) to encourage this type of competition between patrols. Especially First Aid, which is near the top of the list of scout skills. Prehaps, however, I have not done a good job of explaining what I am trying to do (and maybe it is what I am trying to do which is can be done better). We are setting up a competition which is measured and competed over the long-term, not a real head-to-head competition. Let me explain further with an example. This week, the Shark patrol says they want to take the patrol Scout Knot Challenge. The patrol ties the knots in 0:27 seconds, shattering the Mustang patrol's time of 1:42. They go on the board with the new time of 0:27. Two weeks later, the Pelicans take on the challenge and finish it in 0:25 seconds. Their time replaces that of the Sharks. You get the idea. So what if the Mustang hold the First Aid challenge record for "setting the broken leg." A month later, the Sharks want to challenge. How do you really tell that the Sharks did a better job than the Mustangs did last month? The mustangs got all the square knots right and in much better time, but the Sharks had a better splint? How do you keep this competition both repeatable and measurable? These competitions are not scheduled as part of the meetings by the SPL, but the patrols must take the initiative to challenge the record. A record can only be held for one year before it is dropped and must be re-earned. And just like betting, you cannot out-bid yourself. We really think "knots" isgood, as is "tent-pitching" and "fire building." And we want to add one more (too many would not be practical to manage), and I like the idea of it being a first aid competition. It is a matter of making a quantifiable event. Does that help?

Our venture patrol is doing a wilderness survival campout 1.5 miles away from the troop on this weekend's campout. They have asked me to come up with a list of what they can (or cannot) take. I encouraged them to make their own list, but I think they want me to be minimalistically hard on them, so they can prove to me (the adults and the other scouts) what they can do. What minimalist list (food and equipment) would you use? Our rain chance is near nil with lows at or just below 50F, so this should be easy. They will be arriving at the campsite with 6 hours before dark.

How could I have missed Stosh's Y to Z post. He's always got things backwards (HeHe).

Ohio_Scouter, In my eyes, backpacking is one of the really big ones. We do quite a bit of backpackpacking, but have not tackled any trips for our scouts to pull off this one. I am jealous. Good on your scout!

Besides, it is slow at work today. Buffalo Skipper

Kind of like "what boom?" Yea, I just inherited an artificial horizon from my old boss. Great little tool!