Buffalo Skipper

John, Thanks for the perspective on band leaders and comfort zones. I have given this some thought, and I have contacted the scout's band leader asking him to be the MBC. With this in mind, one question here, for you and the group, regarding youth protection. This scout can meet with his BL one-on-one for instruction and such, in ways which would violate BSA YP guidelines. Should I enforce YP standards here? I mean the BL can meet alone with the student, but the moment they discuss a MB requirement, technically, they are violating YP. This BL will likely only be a MBC for this one scout this one time (no other scouts attend this school). Thoughts?

We are a small troop, with about 20 registered. Our oldest scouts (in a Venture Patrol) are becoming less and less active, leaving us with 2 healthy patrols. For that number, there is hardly the need for an ASPL (In fact, if the PLs were more skilled and organized, there would not be the need for an SPL). We do fill positions like QM, Bugler, CA, and Scribe, and we have 2 Den Chiefs. Truth is, only 3 of our scouts are First Class or Star, needing a POR (older Life scouts have all already met their 6 month POR requirement); these 3 are my best leaders now, so I would not want to waste their talents on what is in our situation, a meaningless position. Next year, we hope to recruit 10 more, but with most of the Venture Patrol aging out, I still see little need for an ASPL in a troop with only 3 patrols. Maybe in 2 years or so, we can add one, if we continue to grow as we have in the past, but that is too far out to truly plan around. Don't think that I consider the ASPL position without merit. In a larger troop, there is great benefit to having someone in this position. I do (Kudu and others may appreciate this statement) consider the ASPL in a well run troop to be more of a "management" billet and less of a true "leadership" position. The ASPL, after all, manages the positions of CA, Scribe, Historian, Quartermaster. Each of these should be a part of a patrol, so the ASPL is not really their leader. Quite different in my book, to be honest.

....Especially a 210 page book! Instead, I have a laptop and a flash drive....

Our weekend went well, and we did work with a generic poly tarp, 8x11. It was ok, but was not what we wanted (we knew this before we got started, but setting it up did give us a good starting perspective. We are now looking at the 12x12 Kelty Noah's Tarp. Two high poles on the corners (ends) and one tie down on each side (other corners). with 17' on the another and maybe two low poles on the other corners. This design gives 17' across the diagonal, but of course tapers the coverage on the ends. The troop had a $100 gift card from Cabela's, so we ordered one to try out. Anything the group can offer on these is always welcome....

I haven't had the chance to look it over yet. Any significant changes off the top of which I need to be aware?

The den leader (and the original members of his den) crossed to a troop back in November. He stayed with my wife's den (the second den of 5th graders). He has not even completed his Webelos badge, so at best, he has 3 more months. I am the den leader of the remaining 4th grade Webelos den, but I really don't want a focus on catching him up will be out of place for my den (and not fair to them). I will speak to the father and see what exactly where he stands, and go from there.

Yes, it was an issue of rechartering, not joining. I did check with our registrar before I made the post, and she made it clear either was possible, and that in fact, with a disability (not really the case here), he may remain in cub scouts indefinitely. John, thanks for the example. How was your son in the 5th grade as a Webelos at 11? Did he feel out of place? I am primarily concerned about what is best for the boy. What I mean is which is better for the him, to be a 4th grader in boy scouts (where he may be teased by his peers) or to be an 11 year old in Cub Scouts (where he may feel detached from his peers)?

Sorry if I was vague. He has been qualified to join Boy Scouts since November. That is not in question. My question is should he stay in Cub Scouts? And if no, how do I convince his father to have him transfer to the troop?

I have an odd one. I just got an email from our Committee Chair forwarded from the parent of an inactive Webelos, who I will call "Jimmy." Jimmy has been inactive since October because of a severe wrist injury. He was registered as a Webelos 1 last year ('07-'08 year) but was not active until the summer of '08. Originally he was in a Webelos den with his friends, but all the boys in this den crossed to a troop back in November, so at the beginning of this year, he was put in with the other Webelos 2 den (along with other newly registered 5th graders) who worked hard to earn their AoL in the minimum 6 months, and who crossed over to another troop a month ago. Of course, Jimmy did not finish 2/3 of the AoL requirements. To make a long story short, his father is now wanting him to finish the AoL and then cross over to a troop. All his friends (old den) have been there for many months. To complicate this a little more, he was held back a year in school and he is only in the 4th grade. Jimmy is an active boy (hunts, dirt-bikes, go-carts--the latter of which is how he broke his wrist in 3 places) and even before his injury, he was completely bored with the Webelos program; for the most part, he is emotionally and physically in line with the boys who long ago crossed. I just wanted to get some feedback from the group on their opinions and perspective on this, before I speak to Jimmy's father.

I also use the plastic hangers and frequently change out temporary patches. Some of my favorites are my first camporee, summer camp (any summer camp as a youth), and a few others. We are working hard to bring back good uniforming habits in our troop (and are almost where we want to be) and this is a conversation starter, especially for our younger scouts. I have similar patches to the ones you describe, especially the latter, which I got while serving as an ASM in the TAC back in the mid 80s. These are BSA patches. I see no reason these would not be considered temporary insignia.

"if you think you can get away with it, don't do it." I really like this one. I will need to start using it.

This is the Eagle Charge we use with our troop. We have used it for several decades (I think). We charge all Eagles in attendance to stand and recite the charge with the new eagle, renewing their vow to continued service. Included is the entire presentation, not just the charge. Hope this is what you were looking for: The Boy Scouts of all nations constitute one of the most wholesome and significant influences in the worlds history. [scouts name], you have been declared worthy of the high rank of Eagle Scout in the Boy Scouts of America. All who know you rejoice in your achievement. Your position, as you well know, is one of honor and responsibility. You are a marked man. As an Eagle Scout, you are expected to exemplify in your daily life the high principles and values expressed in the Scout Oath and Scout Law. You have assumed a solemn obligation to do your duty to God, your country, to your fellow scouts, and to all other human beings. This is a great undertaking, which you are now just beginning. As you live up to your obligation you bring honor to yourself and your brother scouts. As an Eagle Scout, you will be a champion to other scouts and be an example to your community. Remember, your actions will be more conspicuous. People will expect more of you. It is your responsibility to help maintain the high regard that all Americans have for Eagle Scouts. To falter would bring discredit, not only to you, but to your fellow Eagles. Keep your ideals high and your honor bright. Your responsibility, however goes beyond your fellow scouts. They extend to your country and to your God. America has many good things to give you, and to give your children after you; but these good things depend, for the most part, on the quality of her citizens. Our country has had a great past. You can help make the future even greater. I challenge you to undertake your citizenship with solemn dedication. Be a leader but lead only toward the best. Lift up every task you do, and every office you hold, with a high level of service to God and to your fellow human beings. Live and serve so that those who know you will be inspired to the highest ideals of life. I challenge you to be among those who dedicated their hearts and hands to the common good. Build America on the solid foundation of clean living, honest work, unselfish citizenship, and reverence to God. Then whatever you do, you will leave behind you a record of which you may be justly proud. The Eagle Scout candidate will now take the Eagle Scout pledge. As the candidate takes this pledge for the first time, will those Eagle Scouts who are present in the audience please stand and reaffirm their pledge? Will each of you please give the Scout Sign and repeat after me? On my honor I will do my best, to do my duty to God and my country I reaffirm my allegiance to the three promises of the Scout Oath. I thoughtfully recognize and take upon myself the obligations and responsibilities of the rank of Eagle Scout. On my honor I will do my best to make my training an example, and make my rank and influence strongly count for better scouting and for better citizenship in my troop, in my community and in my contact with other people regardless of race, color, or creed. To this I pledge my sacred honor. The Eagle Scouts in the audience may now be seated. [scouts name], I charge you to enter this Eagle Scout brotherhood holding ever before you, without reservation, the ideas of honor and service. By repeating the Eagle Scout Pledge before your fellow members, you have become an Eagle Scout. Though the words you used just now are similar to those by which you joined scouting, today they mean more than they ever could have meant at that time or at any time in the past. When you pledged yourself on your sacred honor, using the same words, which are found at the end of the Declaration of Independence, you sealed your eternal loyalty to the code of the Eagle Scout.

Does anyone know where I can find resources about organizing a VOA? Our youth have expressed an interest, and our Council Venturing Committee Chair wants me to present this to the Venturing Forum next month. I am intersted in either online or published information. Thanks.

OR Pioneer, Not to challenge the others here, in fact, for the most part, I subscribe to what they are saying. I agree that if there is a charter partner who has a particular interest, and they are in a position to reach out and recruit youth, this is a great way to start. I believe that the real long term success of most units is best when there is an active charter partner who is involved with the program. And an experienced scouter as the CoR is always a plus! Two years ago, one of our local Sea Scout ships was formed after the local Yacht Club expressed an interest in the program (they had chartered a ship from the 1930s to the 1960s). They were "hands off" with the running of the unit, but the CoR is an experienced scouter as is their Commissioner (who is a YC member). All things considered, it is the CO's support which has gotten this unit off the ground and it is now a thriving unit.

I wonder what kind of tech support you get with the purchase of an abacus?

asm 411, from the perspective of what was written here, I can see why you might think that this was something I had planned and "forced" on the scouts. But that is not the case at all. In fact, they have been talking about this since they (specifically the scouts who participated) put it on the schedule back in August at the planning PLC. Two of these scouts even rearranged their work schedules so they could come out and camp this weekend. But there are certain things that happened after the planning meeting which gave them a different perspective on this campout. First, back in December, I began encouraging the same group that they should plan their hike (in January) to be adult free. This was something that had not happened with our troop in memory. In reality, I don't think that they really thought I would go through with it. The day of that hike, one of these scouts was very sick and was unable to attend (he is the ring-leader of the "gang," or should I say, he has the most imposing personality and is most rebellious). Once they saw that they could go off on their own, I think they saw it as an opportunity to "ditch" the troop and do their own thing. At some point, they decided that wilderness survival was roughing it too much, and that it would be much more fun to play games and eat junk food all night (I have verified this via another scout with whom they tried to enlist assistance). At that point, it became a game to them to try to get away with this. That was why they did not want to set their own standards for the wilderness survival. It would not be challenge for them to ignore their own rules, but quite another to outmaneuver me. The truth was that I was oblivious to this. The first inkling I had of this was the unusual amount of time it was taking them to return their sleeping bags to their tent. Later, when I went back to check on them, I started to put it all together, and back at our camp I spoke to our new SPL who spilled the beans that they were going to come back and that they wanted him to stash more food for them where they could find it. It really does concern me. Yes, there was some pleasure in outwitting and countering them, but I quickly came to realize that there is a bigger "problem" with these scouts and their scout spirit. Beyond the wilderness survival portion of this campout, many of their actions demonstrated to me that they were just being lazy (perhaps even defiantly so). They refused to cook breakfast, and all 3 crammed themselves into a 2-man tent so they would not have to set up another one. And before it was time to leave, they rushed all the other patrols into breaking camp so they could get home, ignoring the SPL's schedule. They are all about a year from aging out (2 are Life and could make Eagle with a little effort, the other is a 6-year 2nd class who is too involved with advanced academics to be interested in advancement; a third Life scout who is better behaved dropped out on Thursday night because it was his girlfriends birthday). The truth is (and I have had this thought more than once) that after they age out, we have a big gap in age with only 2 scouts between the age of 14-16, so their long-term influence on the troop will be minimal. What I need to know now is what do I do about their attitude?

***** insert dramatic music***** Just when you thought it was safe to dive back in the fourm....

...will always outwit youth and strength!

We now have a troop Bugler! He would not bring his trumpet on the campout, but I was told that his bugle arrive last night. He has a month to practice. He also asked me to find him a music MBC. My first thougth was to contact his band leader to see if he would register, but I decided to look into someone else (that is what MBs are about, reaching outside your comfort zone). I can't wait to work with the SPL and Bugler to familiarize both with how this all comes together. We will see...

OK, not Monday but Tuesday; time for a follow up and update. The skinny on these tents are that they are a significant upgrade over what we had were before. They are easy to set up, they are stable, the vestibule is decent. I also like the footprint, which beats the heck out of folding a tarp to fit under the old tents. The FP stuffs nicely into the bag with the tent, though the stuff sack is a little big. It even comes with decent stakes. Our old tents had that sleeve for the poles, and like better built tents, these have clips. The only real complaint I have with this tent is the center (top) clip, which does not hold both poles very effectively. All the remaining clips are good. (Maybe we could replace this clip with a smallish carabiner type.) As I said before, these are almost a foot narrower, but slightly longer than our old tents. This works nicely, as there is plenty of room for gear in the vestibule. The new scouts seem to like them, but don't really know any better; the experienced scouts think they are a great step up; and the veteran scouts think they are really cool. Rather than looking like a cheap square Coleman dome tent, they are much more like real backpacking tents. So far, so good. Most every tent is good in the sun and fair weather. Time will tell how these work out over the long run.

Our scouts survived their wilderness survival weekend, but only just. The scouts involved were older (16-17) and as should be expected at that age, they are a bit rebelious. I posted earlier that they refused to set their own standards for the weekend, and I figured out why, but I will get to that in a bit. They spent Saturday morning working with the younger scouts on skills (fire, knife, ax-yard), but kept running off out of sight periodically between sessions. To begin with, when it was time to select their gear (in front of the troop) they showed up with the 3 authorized items (clothes, water, and knife) along with flashlights/headlamps and sleeping bags. I politely reminded them that the extra items were not on the list, but that they would have an opportunity to select additional items to take with them. The look of dejection on their face was stunned disbelief. They took their sleeping bags back to their tent, and spent several minutes (out of sight) before they returned. I collected their cell phones (which they were not suposed to have in camp anyway, but knew they did). They then learned the scenario, and choose their "extra" gear and loaded up and we went to the remote site (2 miles from our camp). We left them with a sealed cell phone for emergencies. (It was later determined that their sleeping bags had been filled with snacks, food and games. Oops.) I came back around 5pm to visit and see how they were making out. I found their minimalistic camp, but the scouts were no where to be found. As I looked around, I did discover a headlamp right out in the open on their tarp. My first reaction was how dare they bring something like this out and "break the rules," so I snatched it up and put it in my pocket. But as I pondered it for a minute I realized that I really should not be taking that from them (as it was not mine to take). So I opened the back, popped out the batteries, put them in my pocket and dropped the headlamp back where I found it. As we drove back to the campsite, I noticed something odd, and stopped on the side of the road. I saw 3 sets of footprints leading down the road, away from the wilderness area, but there were none going back the other direction. The prints were fresh, and it was obvious that our boys were "sneaking" back to the main camp. Sure enough, when we got to the road junction, they took the path off the road toward our camp (which was 1/2 mile shorter the the road on which I had to drive). I considered my options. I went back to camp, and went in the direction of where these scouts had run off repeatedly in the morning. Imagine my chagrin when I discoverd bags stashed in easy to find places, with food granola bars and more electronics. They were headed back. I had played "espionage" and "war games" (in this very camp) as a scout and staff member 3 decades ago, so thinking of ways to counter them came very naturally, and I had home court advantage. I unloaded their gear from the tent and put it in the troop trailer. After dinner, I had the patrols load their coolers and food boxes into the trailer and it was locked. I felt bad for them: after all, it was at best a 3 mile round trip hike (in the dark without a flashlight) from the wilderness area to base camp, and they had only had a little food. Surely they would be tired. I took comfort in the realization that after such an exertion and adventure, surely they would sleep well, even if the ground was hard. ...I will wait for any replies before I tell you how it all ended...(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Not exactly what is being said here, but I had a discussion about this with more than one scouting professional (in our council). Our council provides complete insurance coverage automatically, so that may make our rules different, but we are allowed to invite prespective non-scouts (qualifying age) on campouts with the troop. They need not be registered, and I would discourage their parents attending. We are expected to have them participate as if they were scouts, and they must (just as the members do) have a signed permission slip. I know that this may raise the hairs on the back of one's neck, but I heard this directly from our Council Exec (it was the extension of a discusion we were having about taking perspective Sea Scouts out on boats as a recruiting activity, and it was given the go ahead, so long as we were following G2SS. He said it was no different than a campout with a non-registered prospective guest; he left the distinct impression that he had verified this through risk management in Dallas). As for Webelos capmping with the troop, I would say only at pre-arranged campouts, so that the troop can arrange age appropriate activities. Younger siblings? No. Non-perspective friends? Same no. Just my 2.

Certainly still on the "Adult Patrols" topic, but aside from what is currently being discussed. Our adults who camp (usually 3-4 in a very small troop) do function like a patrol. No name, no flag, no yell. But we work to set the example by which the scouts and patrols can follow. But something new happened Sunday morning on this past weekend's campout, which has not happened in any of our scouter's memory. We are methodical in our meals. We cook, we clean (3-pan, by the book) and we are done. We always cook a hot breakfast, as do the patrols. If reveille is at 7:00, we are almost always done eating and cleaned up by 8:00 most mornings. But yesterday, one patrol made breakfast and was done before we sat down to eat! This is is, in fact,the best thing I can imagine happening! And to make it even better, it was our new scout patrol, 4 out of 5 of whom were first time troop campers!. They cooked bacon and eggs and made breakfast boritos (fruit on the side). We have had patrols who are cooking and cleaning until after 10:00am on more than one occasion, just because not enough of them could stay on task long enough to finish a single job. Now if only we can find a way to inspire that other patrol to better themselves....

OGE, I think you put it into perspective with the way the patrol was using the name. That, to me, is when it does become an issue. If they are all smirking and giggling about their name, then I would say that this is not an appropriate patrol name. We merged 2 smaller patrols a few weeks ago. The Flaming Arrows and the Scorpions. They chose the obvious, "Flaming Scorpions." Someone in the patrol started wispering about the alternate meaning of "flaming" and last week they decided to change to the Stag Patrol (somehow an interesting alternate choice).

Blue. What do you think of when you see "Blue." The first thing that comes to my mind is the Cherokee tribe. The Cherokee nation had 7 family clans. Amazingly complex and really interesting social system, which I won't bore you with here. But why what is the connection to "Blue"? The seven clans were: Bird, Deer, Wolf, Wild Potato, Long Hair, Paint and Blue. I always thought it would be really neat to see reasonable sized troop with a patrol theme which mimicked the 7 Cherokee clans.