Buffalo Skipper

Let's consider this. I am not shorting Scoutnet, but what you are saying is that a BoR is meaningless unless it is turned in AND recorded with the council? And if a scout moves and has, say most Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class requirements signed off by his old troop, the new troop should not give him credit because it is not in Scoutnet? Prehaps I should have said that a scouts' MOST official record is his handbook. And I am talking about individual requirements here, not the rank completetion (which occurs after the BoR--we are talking about before the BoR). (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

After reading this on Friday, I bought a pineapple to try this at our campout this weekend. Unfortunately, I was unable to try it, as I was taking a scout to the hospital for stitches while the troop roasted and ate the pineapple. But everyone said it was very good.

The only official record of a scout's progress and avancement is his handbook. The one function of the BoR is to verify this (as should also be done by the SM before recomending the BoR, but as we have seen here many times, this is not always the case). If the scout does not bring his book, how can the BoR do it's duty? Looking at the dates in the book gives the committee a real sense of what this boy had done and how he has done it, and may even lead to how they conduct the review. Without the scout's handbook, I do not see how the BoR can fairly conduct the review. I understand that one cannot add or subtract from the requirements, but I really do not see this as falling into that category.

This is not a stupid question at all. How the sea scouting program is run is quite vague in the program literature and even the "official" material provide several options on how this may be done. First of all, see http://www.seascout510.org/scouting_forms/Sea_Scouting_Council_Guide.pdf. This document is 10 years old, but no replacement has been issued, so I can only presume it is "current." Part 5 is what you are looking at. But, as you suggest, there is no council venturing committee, the ship would fall directly under the District Committee, just like any other unit, and would be serviced as such. This can be difficult, as it is very unlikely that anyone on the DC will have any experience or knowledge of the needs of the Sea Scout program. As far as a Sea Scout Committee Key 3, unless the PD or SE directs that there should be one, there is no need. The Council Sea Scout Committee would generally be headed by the Committee Chair (usually called the Commodore, a volunteer) and the Council Sea Scout Director (appointed professional, prehaps the PD). It is implied that Commissioner Service may fall under the Sea Scout Committee, but how this is to be organized or accomplished is not explained. I would speak to your council Program Director or Council Executive, and ask how they want to set this up. For only one ship, it is unlikely that they will want to make any special arrangements. With only a very few ships, it is unlikely that the volunteer rescources in the council will have sufficient experience with the sea scout program to organize a separate committee to support the program. With that said, if you do have a handful of volunteers outside the ship(s) with sea scout experience, by all means try to organize a committee. No offense to non sea scouting volunteers, but the program is sufficiently different from boy scouting and venturing that it can best be served by a separate organization, one with good experience in this program. I hope this has helped.

We are chartered by a United Methodist Church (specifically the United Methodist Men). The head of the UMM is the institutional head, and his designee is the COR. We had for years a COR who was on paper only (former SM, but was out of the country 6 months at a time). I do not know how anything really got done during that 5-10 years. No one dared suggest a replacement, as his connection to the troop was so "old." As the cubmaster of the pack and a troop committee member (at the time), I approached the IH and suggested a member of the UMM with a strong scouting background. He Eagled with our troop in 1953. His son Eagled in 1983. He was a former SM, District Chairman and active Eagle board rep. It was a good fit. He is retired, and is committed the long-term success of all the units. That was almost a year and a half ago. I always felt it was ironic that I recruited my own boss, in a matter of speaking. I would approach your IH and discuss the matter. It is the IH who appoionts the COR.

Thanks Stosh, that is the down to earth advice for which I was looking. The problem is not exactly as you see it, but it is close. Rather than this being a matter of "no one wants the job," it is more of a case of everyone wants the title, but few want the responsibility. Let me tell you more about the "Snark" patrol. Five scouts are 5th graders, coming from the same pack last year. Two of the scouts have been in for 13 months and are still "Scouts" (we used to call them "Brownies," but I guess that may be considered name calling these days); one of these is no longer attending meetings and I believe is disappointed with the troop (his patrol). Both these have good skills. The other 3 are all Tenderfoot, and 3 are close to 2nd class. One is the bugler and his is enthusiastic. Another of this group makes about 1/2 the meetings and less of the outings because he is always on restriction for grades (another thread, not here); he is, by the way, the APL (thinks being the APL is hot snot, but doesn't do much). The last 2 in the patrol are the current and former PLs, who really want the job. Current PL is Tenderfoot, former PL is First Class. Both of these are 7th graders. Current PL really wanted to keep the job, but the other beat him out after 2 rounds of ties. This is really 2 patrols which were merged into one, just 2 months ago, and the SPL was PL of the other patrol. I do like your idea of putting him in charge of the patrol say, until Summer Camp and his selecting his replacement. He sits with (but is not a member of) our "older" patrol, which in reality, is a group of inactive scouts, so putting him here may well do him some good also. I cannot tell you how pleased I am with the NSP. They are working as a team and I expect that, despite bumps they will hit soon enough, they will continue to excel. Most of these scouts have already comleted half their Tenderfoot, but as I posted earlier, they already have good skills. I know this is all good. Learning by mistakes is excellent (you know what I mean) and I will not openly criticize the PL in front of his patrol. I want to act through the SPL, and I do like the idea of putting him directly in charge; conveniently, our troop dynamic fits this circumstance well. Again, thanks. As far as menus go, both patrols sought a simple menu, with burgers on Saturday evening, something different than what I have seen. We will see how well they perform this weekend.

Good news, bad news. In the past before a campout, one the adult leaders accompanied all scouts (patrols) shopping for food, scrutinized their food selection and paid at the checkout. With the advice received here, I have been moving to change that. At the PLC, the PLs were informed to contact all their patrols in advance to have them bring $10 to the meeting, and with that money they would be doing their grocery shopping for the upcoming campout. SPL was told to give $5 to each patrol (2 attending), as he would be eating with each one day. The PL of the NSP got it. Everyone was called, and brought their money. Tuesday, PL and one patrol member met at the grocery store and did their patrol shopping. They ended up $18 under budget. Second patrol PL (of 6th-7th graders) really didn't get it. He arranged when to be at the grocery store, but no one from his patrol showed up and when no adults arrived to pay, he left without buying groceries. He then solicited a scout who was not attending the campout and the SPL to buy their food the next night, giving the SPL the money (short) and menu which he had on him at the grocery store the previous evening. (I had specifically advised this PL that, even though the SPL was eating 2 meals with is patrol, the SPL was NOT to share any of his patrol duties). The PL was at a track meet. We were practicing lashing at the meeting, and the NSP did all their lashings perfectly, while the other patrol had some kind of tangled wraps. Each had the same support by the troop guide and instructor. I could repeat other stories like this over the past 6 weeks, but you get the idea. I have supported the other PL (we will call him Bob of the Snark patrol) since he was unexpectedly elected 6 weeks ago. I want him to succeed, but for lack of another word, he is just lazy. The PL whom he "ousted" had also struggled, but had been making a great effort, and at the campout right before the election, had really started to get it. We have already lost at least one scout from this patrol (I believe because of poor organization and bad leadership) and I fear that the rest will drop like flies if this continues. I know what I want to do. But I really want to hear your feedback first. Your ideas?

If he is getting a little overwhelmed with a positive and involved response, then he must have done something right! Good luck on his project. I am looking forward to hearing how it turns out. Sounds to me like you have prepared him well. Good job!

How many troops out there really conduct a campfire while out on weekend campouts? I think campfires are great fun. My troop used to have them all the time. Songs, skits, and a chance to poke fun at the Scoutmaster. Let me know if you do or don't. If you do, how well are they planned. Do the patrols really enjoy them? Are they creative? What is the level of interest/involvement for younger, middle and older scouts? If you don't, why not? (honestly!) Either way, tell me how large your troop is, as I would guess that these are easier to pull off with a larger troop and more patrols to get involved. Until last month, I cannot remember any taking place with our troop in years. We tried one at the last campout, and it went, well, so-so. I am wondering how much of that was just that these scouts had nothing with which to compare it, or a genuine lack of interest.

Looked like a BestTrack to me. I imagine they enjoyed the quiet plug.

Let me add to what Eagle92 has said here, especially about the position of SM being an awsome responsiblity and about having a boy-led troop. As an example, I am a fanatical organizer. I like to see things "just so." I plan everything to the nth degree, and yet I am flexible and recognize that any plan (especially on the boy scout level) may be subject to change without notice or reason. Expecting the troop (youth) leadership to hold themselves to these high standards is a futile gesture. Scout craft and enthusiasm for the job are not the most important qualities of a Scoutmaster. Patience and the ability to recognize that youth expectations are not the same as those of the adults will go much farther to developing youth leadership than anything else. I understand about a connection to one's own troop. The troop in which I grew up folded several years after I left, and the one with which I am now SM was our biggest rival (with 80+ active 30 years ago, it was the biggest everything). When I started with the troop several years ago it had about 12 scouts registered, and fewer active. It took 3 years to subtly rebuild the committee (through the charter organization), and it will take several more to reach the level where I believe we should be. I spent 3 years with the troop laying the groundwork before I stepped up as Scoutmaster, yet the first day I showed up, the (small) committee with whom I met unanimously agreed that I was the current SMs eventual replacement. Patience is a virtue. I understand that you have thought about this for a year, but that doesn't mean you have to act so abruptly. Plan you action, build your allies an paitently execute your plan. Let it happen, don't force it. If he has 2 years, this gives you plenty of opportunity to set things up for the troop's benefit.

Somewhere out there is a formula for calculating lengths needed for lashing projects. I cannot find it in the new Pioneering MB book. I know it varies depending on the size of the spar. Does anyone have that? We are doing some pioneering this weekend in prep for a scout show project the following weekend, so we want to be able to repeat these lashings easily and quickly.

Yes, the quality of the program has alot to do with everything. Last August, we actually had a RT topic which applied to all 3 RT groups, CS, BS, and SPL: Webelos Recruiting. But it was not a combined, in fact there were 5 different presenters. At CS RT, a presention was made to the combined Webelos leaders and Pack leaders on "Finding a Good Scout Troop." It included a list of all troops in the district, contact information, meeting place and time, Charter Organization and even website info. The discussion largely revolved around differences from Webelos to Boy Scouts, what to look for in a troop, what to expect at a troop visit. The BS roundtable was about Webelos recruiting, how the committee and SMs should handle it, how to approach pack leadership, and innovative ways of invigorating Webelos. The SPL RT was on how to plan for a Webelos visit, either at a meeting or a campout. It also discussed appropriate activities, and looked at ways to make visiting Webelos feel welcome. Overall, I think it was a success. Again, just like good RTs depend upon a quality program, the program is only as good as the ideas are implemented by those attending. The most interesting and captivating and well attended roundtable progam is wasted if the participants don't take the ideas back to their units. Back on the SPL RT, if a troop is truly Boy-led, this is where the leaders should be getting information on their own, not spoon fed from their troop's adult's leaders. My 4 (I posted twice here).

Ten years ago I worked for Delta Airlines as an ticket/gate and baggage agent. As such I (and all the other agents/co-workers) had to make decisions about a wide variety of issues. We had a policy called RAA, which stood for Responsibility, Authority, Accountability. It was our Responsibility to resolve any issue (with a customer). We had the Authority to resolve it in the best manner, as we saw fit. We were Accountable (to our supervisors) for our decisions. That is not to say that we were not given guidelines on how to resolve situations or complaints. But within those "limits" (and they were fairly broad) we were given the lattitude to make our own decisions. And and there were even circumstances in which we could work outside those boundaries. Yet we were accountable for our actions and had to justify our decisions. If we exercised poor judgement, there was a consequence. This is life. I always liked this policy, and I have tried to apply this to the leaders in my troop. I feel that giving our leaders (primarily PLs and SPL, and less frequently QM, Scribe, etc) the ability to handle the problems we they encounter, they are truly placed in a position of leadership. As of this writing, all these leaders have been on only one campout, so I can offer little accountablity of its success.

HICO_Eagle brings up a good point, so let me ask a direct question on this. For those of you who own trailers (presumably owned by the CO, but maybe not...) who pays for insurance on the trailer or other equipment?

I know I have said this before, and some of you may be tired of hearing it, but our district has a monthly SPL Roundtable. And even if there is no "official" position of SPL Roundtable Commissioner, we have an SPL RTC, and 2 staff. The SPLRT focuses on leadership training, SPL networking and Camporee planning. This month, the plan is to have a joint SPL and BS Roundtable (I forget the topic), but this is the first time in a year the SPLs have specificially been invited to join the BS leaders. Most interstingly, the SPLs are actually responsible for planning and executing our district camporees. For us this has been a great experience. Camporee attendance has gone up and it is scout led with activities the scouts choose and plan. The troop feedback has been more positive with this as well. Feel free to ask me any specific questions on the SPLRT you may have, and I will try to answer it. I am not directly involved with this RT, but I have sat in as an observer several times, and the RTC is a good friend.

We have 3 Katadyn Hikers, one for each patrol, and several of our adults have the same unit. These are great little filters! You can fill a 1/liter bottle in under a minute. For a patrol of 5, that makes a gallon of water in 2-3 minutes. Not too time consuming. We have never had a problem with clogging, as we choose our sources to minimize scum. Anywhere we hike (or canoe) we generally have access to areas with relatively clean sources of water. Never had any problems. We also have an MSR--don't like it a bit. We bring it along, but only as an emergency backup, and have never had to use it. We carefully service all our filters before and after any trip.

If your patrols are shopping independently of troop activity, how do you handle common items, like bags, charcoal, paper towels? Are they bought by the troop and distributed through the QM? And if the patrols collect the money for their own grub (either with a troop-imposed or patrol-imposed budget), does the troop collect an additional fee for a campout? If so how much? I am not complaining about this method; in fact, I really like this idea (which is different than our troop does it), and want to see our patrols working this way as well.

Do you have specific nutritional info on the silkworm? It would be nice to pass along....

SSScout, thanks for the RWS poem. I am a huge fan of Mr. Service. I can recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" from memory. My father once went to a recital with RWS reading "Congo." Despite the melodic rhythm to his prose, my father always said RWS's spoken word was disjointed and broken. He remained a fan of his work, but could never understand how the author read his own poetry so poorly.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Our patrols typically keep to a budget of $10. At our last campout, we had one patrol of 5 keep their cost to $42, and another was $47. Adults may spend more, but not much. That same weekend we had 4 adults and spent $51, but we provided the whole troop with cobler and baked apples on Saturday evening.

What do your patrols do for their typical 5-meal weekend? B-L-D-B-L. How responsible are patrols in plannnig these menus and planning nutritious (balanced) meals? I am not talking about backpacking, but regular meals with coolers. What meals are cooked, and which are not? What snacks do they plan? Cookies? Fruit, Cracker Barrel? Does your SPL approve all menus or are the patrols allowed to completely make their own choices?

These are rope spinners: http://pioneeringmasters.org/PM_ropeMaking.php http://usscouts.org/scoutcraft/BoyScoutRopemaking.pdf These are rope making machines: http://www.relia.net/~thedane/pioneering_passport.pdf (bottom page) http://www.hort.cornell.edu/plantsandtextiles/pdfs/rope/rope.pdf http://www.makerope.com/ These last 2 have real good designs and information on the style from the Pioneering MB book.

Find a source for fresh eggs. Around here we call them "yard eggs." These are not eggs you buy in the grocery store, but direct from the farm. They have never been refrigerated, and something about the way they are processed and washed. Yard eggs will keep for several days on the the trail. Europeans do not regrigerate eggs and they keep for a week or more.

Cherry Apple dump cake 2 boxes of yellow cake mix 1 can of dark cherries in water (not syrup, not pie filling) 1 can of apple pie filling 1 can of sprite 1 stick of butter dump, mix and bake for 35-45 minutes at 350 F. (see-- http://www.yalleatyet.com/Charcoal_Cooking.html) I like to line the bottom with a parchment paper liner. I think it works tons better than aluminum foil.