Buffalo Skipper

As for wearing adult knots (representations of youth awards) on a Venturing uniform, I have no objection to that. Just as Boy Scouts wear a religious award (purple adult square knot) on a uniform, I have heard of Venturers doing this with Eagle and AOL. AOL does not have a recognized as a place on the Venturing uniform. Likewise Eagle, whether earned as a Venturer or not, is a Boy Scout rank; I know the oval patch can be worn on the uniform, but I understand a venturers desire to be more subtle.

Thanks for the kind words. It is reassuring to hear I am on the right track. It is easy to get discouraged with a low turnout. I am done packing (personal gear). Tonight we (adults) are doing our grocery shopping and will pack our "adult" gear. We purchased each patrol (including the adults) a dry gear bag for cooking and patrol gear. It should be a fun trip for the scouts. I like what you passed on from Keith Galloway about High Adventure. I think I can incorporate that into the next PLC which will be a planning meeting. Hopefully it will give the scouts a better idea of what they can do. Progress is slow, but steady.

Unfortunately the boy who was rescued has passed away, never coming off of life support. http://www.ketv.com/news/20357265/detail.html Keep the family of the young boy and the teenager who rescued him in your thoughts and prayers.

Regardless of what happened to the term "Division," Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Venturing still remain separate programs, with little overlap in their organization or implementation. Prehaps the term "Program" would have been more accurate, but in reality the recognition and ease of use of the work "Division" carries the intended meaning. I have no illusions that BSA and GSUSA will merge. The only fact surrounding that of which I believe to be true is that GSUSA is going through some challenging times. I believe that the idea of merging the programs is doable, and. as I stated above, it could be done in a way which preserves both program's traditions. I do not, however, think it will happen anytime in near or intermediate future. Finally, I do not expect to see girls earning Eagle any sooner than we have boys earning Girl Scout's Gold award.

Any venturers who are part of (elected officers) a VOA should wear silver loops at activities in which they are acting as members of the VOA, not for Crew meetings. The only adults who should wear their Silver loops a troop meeting are Unit Commissioners (with very few other exceptions), ie they are attending the meeting as a member/representative of the district, not as a unit leader.

I can't seem to make that link work. Try this: http://www.weartv.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wear_vid_3238.shtml

Please keep Eagle Scout Josh Toquothty in your prayers. He is a local Sea Scout who was attending a ship party for one member's birthday and his going away to college. Not being familiar with the extreme shallow water, he dove in where it was too shallow water and broke his neck. He is a BSA Lifeguard and a great Sea Scout. See a very positive story on what the other Scouts around him did when it happened here: (Look at the next post for the link... After the incident he had no feeling below his sternum, but after 5 hours of surgery yesterday, he is now said to be able to wiggle toes in one foot and feel pain in the other. Keep Josh in your thougths and prayers as he has a long recovery and rehabilitation ahead of him.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Hypothetically, if there were to be a merger of BSA and GSUSA, it appears obvious to me how to do this. Simply add to the Boy Scout, Cub Scout and Ventruing Divisions, Brownie and Girl Scout divisions. Like Cubbing and Boy Scouting these would work through Elementary and Middle/High School respectively. Venturing would be the co-ed blending of the teenagers. Former Boy Scouts could continue toward Eagle and Girl Scouts could continue toward Gold. Either could work toward Ranger, Quest, Silver or Quartermaster (for Sea Scouts). I am not convinced that blending the pre-teens into a single program would be beneficial for either the boys or girls. Traditional education (and remember, BP considered Scouting a radical and new educational method) separates boys and girls, until very recent history. Teachers still work to segregate progress by gender as girls and boys do not mentally, physically or emotionally develop at the same rate. Recent "experimental" educational which again divide the gender shows significant improvement in both groups when working and learning separately. Girls math skills improve as does boys reading (often the lowest denominators of each group). Such a blending of programs would preserve the traditions of each group, but place them under a single organizational model. Cub Scouting is different from Boy Scouts; just as Brownies and Girl Scouting could remain different and separate. On the other hand, I am not aware of any significant movement to merge the programs right now, so it is a moot point and a largely meaningless discussion, though I must admit, a very intriguing one.

The troop is readying for our 60 mile Suwannee River canoe trek. We had several scouts drop out at the last minute. SPL cancelled yesterday for football (practice on the night we leave) and 4 others for last minute changes in family vacations (2 of these dads were planning on accompanying us on the trip but unexpectedly made family vacations plans instead this past week). We are down to 6 scouts, one patrol of 4 one of 2. Still, we are moving forward. Should be an exciting trip that the scouts will remember for a long time. We leave on Wednesday and are back on Sunday evening. (School starts here one week after we return).

"From memory, and in International Morse Code send and receive sections from the Gettysburg Address using your Scout neckerchief.(In 1963, we took first place for this one during the Spring Camporee)"Great for lifetime bragging rights, but can you do it now?(I am not ragging on you. It was the Morse code requirement which kept me from earning my Quartermaster back in the early 80s. I practiced for 2 years and could not get it down fast enough. Ironically, this requirement was dropped; oh well.)

sandspur, I am both a Canoeing and Rowing MB counselor. Our troop encourages all scouts to earn the First Aid MB early on. We have a certified RC nurse (CPR instructor) and a PA on our committee, both of whom have 25+ years of scouting experience--perfect as FA MBCs. I agree that once completed, this should count. I have no training dummy (except for my Committee Chair), though I could get one if I really needed it. I discuss this with the scouts at length before we begin, and knowing they have been through the FA MB, I count it as good. We are working to see that all members of the troop get CPR trained. I think this is a smart idea, and beneficial to the troop as a whole. I see no reason why this should not be a slam dunk for these requirements. I also see think this is unnecessary and a bit overboard (pun intended) for all these MBs, but I can see a thread of a connection. Certainly CPR as an issue of drowning (boating related accident) is relevant, but "rescue breathing" is no longer officially taught for CPR--it is compressions only now. If you look at the requrirement for Climbing MB, 1b states: "Identify the conditions that must exist before performing CPR on a person." I think this would be a much more relevant complement for all MBs, or even better, include this for Tenderfoot, and everyone will have met it, so you can remove it from all the MB requirements. For something like First Aid, Lifesaving or even Emergency Preparedness, I would not be opposed to requiring CPR certified training. But I do not mean to hijack the thread with this thought.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Thanks. I also spoke to our council PD who is from that area (both personally as a professional scouter). He said he didn't know much except that it was in Saline County, which is where you describe it. It will be interesting to see what happens here, but I expect that things will move at the speed of bureaucracy, which is slower than a three legged turtle.

Sandbars are cool. But the Water management district with the state park service has put together "River Camps" every 20 miles or so beginning below Big Shoals Look at some of the details here. http://www.floridastateparks.org/wilderness/rivercamps.cfm The pics show the "shelters" but each has an adjoining primitive campsite, which we will use 2 nights. Lap of luxury! For our young scouts it will be nice. 2/3 of those attending are 1st year scouts. Oh, the cost is free, by the way.

Eagle69, do you have any details about which site in AR was on the short list? I'd be curious to hear about it....

Brent, I am as green as my scout pants! I have never been to NT, but I cannot wait for our guys to age up to be able to go. With luck, we will have a good enough number of older scouts in 2-3 years. Amazing the portages you had. Well done! Our troop is readying for it's third (canoe) trip afloat this summer--4 if you count the Nantahala. It is a 60-mile Suwannee River trip and we leave in 6 days. We will have one known portage of 55 rods or less (as best we can tell) with about a 20' rise and slow descent, no loose rocks, only sand and a limestone bed; this will coincide with our first overnight stop on the river. Our scouts (and adult leaders) are screaming about how difficult this will be and how we need to re-plan the trip so we don't have to do it. Somehow they just can't get the scope of how insignificant this really is. I know it will be much better than they think it will. Admitedly, most of our scouts are small (for their age) but this will only be as big a deal as they make it. Thanks for the great info. I wish I could see some pictures. Sounds like the trip of a lifetime!

Our committee chair is a great guy. Sons long out of scouting, still wanting to be involved. Makes campouts a time or two a year (great with the scouts, when the occasion arrises). He is very hands off and low key. He works off-shore, two weeks on, two off. Switches shifts periodically so we never know when he is in town and a meeting is scheduled; he sends out "reminders" the day before the committee meets. He goes through his agenda but won't commit to anything. The fundraising coordinator (my wife) has brought up numerous fundraisers. They discuss it and move on to the next item. Never a commitment to do anything. When he is offshore, nothing really happens, which is barely a measureable amount less than when he is in town. And yes I am the SM. In the 3 years I was on the committee before stepping up, we had a whole year without a single committee meeting. I worked hard through our church to "recruit" a good COR. This man is a retired board member of the regional electric utility. He has held every volunteer post in our church, except for the president of the United Methodist Women--and he almost held that once (true story, hehe). He eagled with the troop in 1953, his son in 1983, and he was SM from 1960-63, as well as the district chair from 1990-91, and innumerable positions in between. He is neither a slouch nor a pushover. His health has been less than optimal the past year or so, but now all of his maintenance work is done (eyes, heart, knees) and he is much more active. He and I are friends, but he is not "my man," so to speak, which is why I recruited him in the first place. I wanted someone who would do what is best for the unit, and I hope he will. But he is cautious and he is works very slowly though deliberately. I have worked hard (prehaps too hard) with most every thing which has happened with the troop in the past year, but I am frustrated that all that effort seems to be for not. I have quietly worked with scouts to recruit new blood in a small troop so that we to see that we have a good healthy unit, and they have. All our older scouts are "semi-active" at best, and there is a near 4 year gap between them and the rest of the troop. Consequently I am struggling to find the time to train youth leaders, which considering the membership dynamic is where most of my effort should be at this point. How do you recruit committee and ASMs who show up and do a job?

I recently called a meeting of all our ASMs. I have worked hard to recruit new leaders to assist with the program. I first secured an application from a very excited retiring Cubmaster of one of our charter organization's packs; his son is a 5th grade Webelos and he earned his Eagle in our troop nearly 20 years ago. Next I recruited a church member Eagle from another troop, who recently returned to the area; he was very excited to be getting involved in Scouting again. His troop folded shortly after he aged out half a dozen years ago or so, and he was glad to find a home in his church troop; I even signed his father to our committee. I have also worked to involve our recent now 18+ scouts (all Eagles) who have participated in recent activities. And finally in our ASM cadre there are the 2 most recent SMs who stepped down last year and in 2002 (the latter for lack of help). The main purpose of the meeting was to have everyone meet, as not everyone knew one another. I wanted to work together to set a direction for our leadership and determine how active each would be, as I knew some would be more involved than others. It was my intention to keep it a very informal gathering, and rather than have a formal agenda (like a committee meeting) I chose to start the meeting by reading an excerpt from the Venturing Officer Training syllabus. It reads: Trying To Do The Job Alone Dear Sir, I am writing in response to your request for additional information for my insurance claim. In block number three of the accident claim form I wrote, "Trying to do the job alone" as the cause of my accident. You said in your letter that I should explain that statement more fully. I trust the following details will be sufficient. I am a bricklayer by trade. On the date of the accident, I was working alone on the roof of a new six-story building. When I completed my work I discovered that I had about 500 pounds of brick left over. Rather than carrying the bricks down by hand, I decided to lower them in a barrel by using a pulley which was attached to the side of the building at the sixth-floor level. Securing the rope at ground level, I went up to the roof, swung the barrel out, and loaded the bricks into it. Then I went back to the ground and untied the rope, holding it tightly to insure a slow descent of the 500 pounds of bricks. You will note in Block 2 of the claim form that my weight is 135 pounds. Due to my surprise at being jerked off the ground so suddenly, I lost my presence of mind and forgot to let go of the rope. Needless to say, I proceeded up the side of the building at a very rapid rate of speed. In the vicinity of the third floor, I met the barrel coming down. This explains my fractured skull and collarbone. Slowed only slightly, I continued my rapid ascent, not stopping until the fingers of my right hand were two knuckles deep into the pulley. By this time, I had regained my presence of mind and was able to hold tightly to the rope in spite of my pain. At approximately the same time however, the barrel of bricks hit the ground and the bottom fell out of the barrel. Devoid of the weight of the bricks, the barrel then weighed approximately 50 pounds. I refer you again to the information in Block 2 regarding my weight. As you might imagine, I began a rapid descent down the side of the building. In the vicinity of the third floor, I met the barrel coming up. This accounts for the two fractured ankles and the lacerations of my legs and lower body. This second encounter with the barrel slowed me enough to lessen my injuries when I fell onto the pile of bricks, and fortunately, only three vertebrae were cracked. I am sorry to report, however, that as I lay there on the bricks in pain, unable to stand, and watching the empty barrel six stories above me, I again lost my presence of mind, and let go of the rope. The empty barrel weighed more than the rope so it came down upon me and broke both of my legs. I hope I have furnished information sufficient to explain why "trying to do the job alone" was the stated cause of the accident. After years of a lack of support in the troop's adult leadership, I was excited about the meeting, as I finally felt the troop was going to have the kind of support we had not had in well over a dozen years. I envisioned being able to share with everyone one small aspect of responsiblitly so that I would be able to focus on working with the scouts rather than constantly struggling to keep every detail from falling apart. Going into the meeting, I really felt it I had done a reasonable job of getting things back on track with the troop. Of the 7 ASMs who had committed to the meeting, only 2 showed up (one a former SM and another a 20 yo troop Eagle who is too involed in college to be active). Also last month, our committee never scheduled a meeting and with 2 long campouts scheduled for July and August (3 and 4 nights each), and only one ASM and a treasurer (both of whom are reaonably dependable), I can't tell you how let down I felt. Our advancement coordinator hasn't been to a meeting in 4 months, and has arranged only 3 BoRs all year. The last one she was just too busy, so I set it up for 4 scouts in one night. Outside of the council popcorn fundraisers (which we only did this year), the troop hasn't scheduled a fundraiser in almost 3 years. Only twice in a year have I seen a parent offer to help and transport or participate in an outing. And surely you have heard me rant about the council MBC fiasco. I am not about to step down, but I am not sure what more I can do before I have to file an accident report, filling in block 3, the cause being "Trying to do the job alone."

Hal, Actually that is a good suggestion, and not too far from what I was working toward, but a nice refinement. It is my understanding that Scoutnet cannot differentiate between "District" and "Troop" MBCs. Because of this, it requireds that the council/district jump through a couple of extra hoops. Your idea places the burdon of troop MBC management back onthe troop, which is a reasonable expectation. I will suggest this to our ASE and CAC, who are heading up this effort. Thanks.

Thanks for your supportive replies. Let me answer some of your questions. This was not an accidental delete. This was planned (apparantly quickly) and executed. Our district had just worked through a big push to have MBC lists up to date and available, and I was a part of that push (I worked on my troop while I was working with the District MBC coordinator to help him at the same time). This master list (the first which was seen in a decade was released in May and dumped at the end of June. The changes apparently came about because of the push, which prompted the pros to look into National policy, and on their recomendation, changed MBC registration from Jan-Dec to Jul-Jun as a relief for the registrar (our council charters run Jan-Dec). Also, all MBCs must be approved by a council MBC review board headed by the CAC. We'll see how long that pig can fly. As for roundtable, I have missed only 3 in the past 5 years, and that due to family vacation; I have spent 3.5 of those years serving as CS RTC and Venturing Forum Commisssioner. All registered MBCs were sent out letters from the council with BSA form 34405 (MBC application) and asked to return them to re-register. I had registered back in March; I sat down personally at the regristar's desk and discussed what few badges I would counsel when I turned in a new application (code 42) and form 34405. I never received a letter from the council advising me to reregister, and allegedly, I am not in Scoutnet as EVER being a MBC. It is this oversight which has apparantly kept me out of the loop on this whole process. That is part of the rub, since I was so very explicit about getting that done. I cannot worry about the district or what is happening with their MBCs. I only have time to deal with our troop list (which, in reality, should not be my responsibility, as SM, but if no one else does it, I will have to see it through).

I have talked to Asst. SE. I consider he and the SE friends, so they are very approachable for me. This is not resolved, but we are working things out. Looks like we will have to get these forms (BSA #34405) filled out again by everyone (and resubmitted every year!). The troop will be keeping a copy of these on file, and we will photocopy and resubmit to the council each year. That will keep the counselors from jumping through these hoops unnecessarily. Not the ideal solution, but it does minimize the impact. I also now have a *.pdf of the form which can be filled out and saved, which will also help.

Please bear with me as I go off on this. Sympathetic replies are welcome, but not necessary. As many of you know from postings here, I have been working to revive a "correct" and appropriate merit badge program in our troop. With a lack of interest from the committee, I have recruited a dozen or more Merit Badge Counselors for the troop who are willing and able to work with us (on the troop not district level), which required a significant effort. I ensured that all had jumped through the proper hoops, completed both forms and been through training. I went to add one MB to the short list which I counsel, only to find out that we I am no longer registered. Upon further investigation, it was determined that ALL the MB counselors in the council have been removed from Scoutnet. The registrar told me that EVERYONE needs to fill out a new application, no exceptions, even those who did it as recent as 3 months ago. Since all counselors were "dropped" as of July 1, none of the MBs which our scouts have completed in the last month were with registered counselors. I have not yet been informed if these MBs will be valid (that is being looked into right now). I have put a significant amount of time into recruiting (and training) these people, and now I will have to go back to them to get them to fill out another application. It is insuting and infuriating. No, there is nothing that can be done, I just have to suck up and ask them to do it all again. I just needed to vent about it. I guess next time I will make a copy of every application (#34405) and just resubmit it myself to the council office each year. If you want the job done right you have do it yourself (over and over and over again...)

Great info! Thanks. Next question, and this applies to non canoeing campouts as well. Assuming that patrols work out tent-partners, can/do patrols switch partners on a whim? Ours want to do this every night (and I don't like it, but I am not sure what to do about it without stepping in). We have a fairly young troop, with mostly small scouts (6th and 7th graders). We will have a .2 mile portage on our next trip, and several experienced adults have expressed concerns to me about handling this. It just so happens that the portage will be with the overnight. We will have council owned 15' and 17' aluminum canoes. Our warm-up trip last weekend went well (mostly 7th graders). It was on a swift river (3-4 mph current with no white water) which was afoul with hurricane debris from 4 years ago. We only had to pull canoes once (not a real portage), and in spite of many obstacles and obstructions, we had no capsizes. Beautiful river--almost no people, no development and NO garbage; truly pristine. Our next river will be longer but with no obstructions and with prepared, state park run primitive campsites, also with little development outside of one town it runs through.

I am looking for some ideas on how other troops pair their boating partners when canoeing. Do you put an older more experienced scout with a younger scout? Do you keep all partners in patrol groups? Do your canoe partners also share a tent?

Found it! ( knew it was there somewhere....)On the individual advancement window, look to the lower right. There are two check boxes. The first is "Inactive" and the one below it is "Manual MB Placement." Check this and you will be able to place MBs where you like. It takes a little to manipulate it, but it works.

BadenP, You hit the nail on the head when you said "why would a sea scout even want to earn Venturing awards in the first place, they have their own rank...." One of the Methods of Boy Scouts is "Advancement." The closest thing in Venturing is "Recognition." The Venturing program has no rank structure like Boy Scouting. Sea Scouting, in some ways, works on the edge of the Venturing model, as it does have a formal rank structure. Yet since these Sea Scouting falls under the auspices of Venturing, Sea Scouts can earn Venturing awards as well as the Quartermaster rank. Likewise, anothter of Venturing's Methods is "High Adventure." For Sea Scouts, this is not limited to "High Seas Adventure." The program encourages high adventure and recognition. Certainly the Ranger Award meets this requirement. And many of the skill sets used as required and optional requirements for Ranger could easily be directly linked to Sea Scouting. For required, First Aid, Emergency Preparedness, Communications, Cooking, Land Navigation (shares many attributes of marine navigation), Cooking, and Conservation are the obvious ones; for optional, how about Ecology, Fishing, Lifesaver, SCUBA or Watercraft. This makes the Ranger award look positively salty.