Buffalo Skipper

Most of my scouts call me "Skipper." Which is a partial explanation of my username.

Quick question. On rank advancement cards, Who signs the SPL slot if the SPL is the one who has advanced? We have a COH coming up which has spanned 2 SPLs. Each earned Star while the SPL. Do we have them sign their own cards? Not looking to make this a big discussion, but your ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

One Hour, I really was trying to make dividing a "here is your answer discussion." I assumed you had circumstances which would have discouraged this course of action. But if you have split before, I would like to discuss that with you privately or on another thread without hijacking this one. My real point was to think of unconventional solutions and consider them. I expect that your solution will not be a single "silver bullet," but instead may be combination of smaller things. Another similar option may be organizing a Venturing Crew. I am teaching a course at our upcoming Commissioner College on "Venturing and the Commissioner," and I came across quite a bit of material about using Venturing crews to relieve Troop stress and as a method of active retention. PM me if you like and I can forward you some of these documents.

I consider Powerhorn a great course. But the skills it teaches are not true outdoor skills. Look at the Ranger requirements, specifically the core and elective requirements. Powderhorn takes this list and turns each requirement into a 1-3 hour experience (over 6 days total), and exposes you to what each reqirement is and how to bring this type of activity to your unit (Crew or Troop) by using outside experts called consultants. It does not teach these skills to the leaders. Though the award is a Venturing level recognition, the elements are generally applicable to a troop program. You can learn quite a lot in this course, but you will not learn to master these skills. I think an AOLS would be a great course to implement in a district or council. BSA required? No, definately a "Supplemental" training. And even though I am pro-training (and I do like the idea of this course), I think it would be too much for most leaders to be expected to participate in a program like this. Ideally, it may include things like alternate methods of fire starting, backpacking and canoing, cooking without stoves, and similar activities. Possibly done in a round-robin format. I can many interesting and fun things which can be added to this program done in a whole weekend, Friday night through Sunday afternoon. Interesting.

80 Active Scouts! Wow! I know many will absolutely flip at this, but my first reaction would be to divide that troop, as quick as you can, and not in two but into 3 troops! In his book Aids to Scoutmastership, Baden Powell devoted a whole section to his chapter on Character to "Why a Troop Should Not Exceed 32." In fact, he suggested that he would not have a troop over 16, but "...I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two." Clearly with a troop that size, you cannot interact personally with each and every scout; you have a staff of ASMs to do that, and with a good program, they are obviously very capeable. Recruiting is not a problem, so all you need to do is divy up your leaders. Time for the ASMs to step up and be SMs of smaller groups. No need to find new a new charter partner, just ask your current one to charter one or two additional troops. And then have them meet on different days. When a church grows and an adult Sunday School class becomes too large, it divides. The new class doesn't leave the church, but it does meet at a different place and sometimes at a new time or day. I would consider dividing a troop as the ultimate mark of a unit's success, and further contributing to the growth and future of Scouting! Now back to reality. No I really don't expect this as your solution (though it would be the first thing I would do). But do take a close look at your program and think outside the box (a smaller group is much easier to manage, and you could have 3 SPLs gaining experience at a time instead of one). Aids to Scoutmastership is a timeless insight into BPs expectations of what a troop and Scoutmaster should be. Surprisingly, though nearly a century old, 95% of what is in the book is completely relevant in today's world. Here is an online version: http://www.pinetreeweb.com/bp-aids.htm or a downloadable .pdf: http://nlc.scouts.ca/bcm/nlc/nlc-website.nsf/AllDocSearch/F35CB029517C6C4F87256FA6007D39B0

I hope you don't mind my interrupting your discussion, but I have a question. Earlier posts said that there is no requirement to have any Philmont related training in order to staff NYLT. Our council program director insists that 2 scouts and one adult must attend some training (only offered at Philmont) in order for us to organize a course. Can anyone give me hard evidence one way or the other as to whether or not this is required? We have never had a course here, and I really want to see that we bring a course here, even if it takes several years.

The Venturing Silver Award (and Ranger and Quartermaster Awards) is based upon skill sets and concepts which are not a part of the Boy Scout program. It is based upon the framework of the crew and applies to "Methods" which are Venturing, not Boy Scout. Many of the "Ethical Controversies" presented in the Silver Award are exclusive of the Boy Scout and troop environment, and in fact are intended to be for more mature individuals than would apply to most Boy Scouts.

Brent, I had very much wanted to do exactly what you said, but I had not really considered NYLT as a prerequisite. The reason for this is that our council is really behind the 8-ball when it comes to NYLT. We have never had a course here, nor has any neighboring council. We could go as far as Atlanta, Jacksonville, or Orlando, but that is a 6-8 hour drive--not too practical for an individual to get to a course. Since we have not had but 2-3 scouts in our council attend NYLT, it is difficult to put together a course with staff (youth or adults). I know I am getting slightly off topic here, but can anyone make some suggestions on how to work around this (not as a prerequisite for a POR, but as a way to get our leaders NYLT trained? Back on topic... I agree with you about skills not being leadership. But unless you have a 1 in 100 naturally gifted leader, it will be difficult to get them to effectively lead more experienced and scouts. I also agree that it is not always best to have the same scout in the same position over and over, but if they are the only and/or best qualified, why would you NOT allow them to repeat the position? If nothing else, it will facilitate the other scouts learning from their leader (instad of the leader learning from the more capeable scout). Right now we have no actual ASPL position. We just don't have enough experienced scouts to waste the position on someone who would be a far greater benefit as a PL. As we grow, I expect this will change, possibly as early as next winter/spring.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

Thanks all for the quick and detailed repsonses. As if often the case, I had an untold story behind the request. Briefly, one scout vindictively "rigged" the last patrol election so that the qualified individual (who wouldn't put up with his crud) was not elected, but that someone whom he could "walk" over was chosen. It took me some time to put it together, but I figured at summer camp what had happened. At the time, the troop (active members only, 2 patrols) had 3 first class scouts. One was elected SPL, one was the PL of the new scout patrol, but the other was "snubbed," as described above. Everyone else was Tenderfoot or Scout. These same members are now all Tenderfoot or 2C (2 close to 1C) and 2 of the 1C are now Star and the other is close. Six months from now, I expect all the Tenderfoots will be 2C or higher, and the 2C should be 1C. Most of the new scouts are progressing nicely and will likely be 2C. We are already active on our Webelos recruiting, and we hope to have enough to expand by one or more patrols. With many "advanced" scouts, we can set higher standards for our PLs, with increased skills and maturity. This is a decision to be made by the PLC. It is not what I will be imposing on the troop, nor will it be fully engaged for neary half a year. My reason for discussing it now is to bring discuss it with the PLC and to use it as an opportunity to encourgage advancement. It is all part of a greater plan intended to promote leadership, responsibiliy and advancement in the troop.

What prerequisites (if any) do your troops have for Positions of Responsibilty, specifically for Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader? We are a small troop, but growing troop. We have not had any prerequisites set up for PL or SPL. As our scouts were mostly lower in rank. We now have several scouts who are now up to 2C and I expect we will have several 1C and another Star within a few months. Rather than making elections a free for all, I am considering setting some "standards" for these 2 positions. Ideas and thoughts?

I earned several MBs which are now obsolete. One in particular stands out in my mind, printing. Admitedly, I am biased regarding this one, as my father was a printer from 1937 to 1994 (and he retired using the same model printing presses which he used to start his first business). My point is that doing printing taught me about alignment, balance, visual symetry, layout, use of colors, and much, much more. I know that in today's world of computers, the trade of offset printing is obscure, at best, but you can't say that there is no longer printing. If anything, we print far more now than when I earned the badge 30 years ago. And the diversity of printing techniques and methods is much greater in this computer age. I am a computer programmer by trade (never earned a computer or electronics or any related MB). Yet I use the skills learned working with my father on Printing MB almost daily in how I choose to lay out reports, or even scouting flyers, forms and even Power Point. Likewise, I earned the Bookbinding MB. Just this weekend, my son came up to me wanting to tape the binding of a well used card trading book. He and I spent some time talking about how the book was bound (he had never noticed) and we were able to rig "binding press" to re-glue and repair his book. He was impressed, and said he wished he could also could have earned the Bookbinding MB. Just my 2.

I am going to assume you saw them in a framed display. "District Commissioners" and "District Scout Commissioners" are dated titles which go back to the mid-'70s and also included "Troop" and "Pack" Commissioners. Today's equivilent titles would be "District Commissioner," "Assistant District Commissioner" and "Unit Commissioner" respectively. You can see some historical Commissioner Patches on Mitch Reis' site: http://www.scatacook.org/photogallery/PatchGalleryCommissioner.htm (This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

If your old SM is qualified to be a MBC for a particular badge, then have him fill out an application to be an MBC. A Merit Badge Counselor is a DISTRICT position, and the application need not be signed, approved or even seen by anyone on the troop committee. Have him pick it up and return it directly to the council service center. As SM it is your responsibility to match the scout and the counselor. The committee should not be a part of this process. If there are scouts (whose parents) would not want their son to work on the badge with your old SM, then assign them another counselor. Very simple, by the book, and everyone is happy (or in some cases appropriately--and correctly so--ignorant).

Download the *.rtf (rich text) version. It should open with MS Word. When you go to save it, choose to save it as a .doc version. I do this with all the documents created in Troopmaster,as TM does not save in .doc formats (copywrite issues). It works fine for me. Good luck on your ELSP!

Welcome Doug! In my course the Antelopes consisted of 4 burly men (3 of them Marine and Navy aviators) and a very soft spoken, but cheerful lady. Their cheer began with the men strongly shouting: "Four Bucks! Four Bucks! Four Bucks! Four Bucks!" After a brief pause she would pipe up more coyly: "And a doe." This always brought a smile to everyones face, rounding out our critter calls. With years of experience, I shouldn't have to tell you that the job of SM is the most rewarding in all of Scouting, and possibly the most challenging. Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask us for advice on any situation you may encounter. There is no shortage of opinions here.

A proper bugler is the most important position in a troop behind a Patrol leader. It is he who enforces a schedule, musters all the troops (literally) either on a patrol or troop level. His calls can keep scouts out of trouble (as an example, a recall to the campsite if foul weather is imminent). A good troop will do far better with a competent bugler. Look at the information we have recently discussed regarding troop buglers here: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=227350#id_232535

Yes, that's where I had the 10.5 thing. It seems as if the BS (that's Boy Scout, not Buffalo Skipper) application seems to contradict the AOL requirements. Thanks for finding the exact wording on that.

"...but some environmentalists and outdoors advocates applaud the efforts. That's because they worry that a population more familiar with Google than the Grand Canyon ultimately could hurt conservation efforts."Seems to me that a generation of semi-educated peoples who are more umbilicaled to their technology than the true outdoors would be pretty capeable of hindering meaningful conservation efforts....

Brent, Thanks for that one. We said it while camping during a portage on the Suwannee this past weekend. Our main portage was just about 100 rods. Almost all of our scouts in attendence were 11 years old (only 2 were older). Everyone groaned when I said the "For water and portage trails" line. Thank you all for these. I am still collecting, so feel free to keep submitting.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I much prefer the functional bellows pockets over the old flat pockets. I'm with you. I do like these pockets. In fact, our troop is looking at a button up activity shirt which is a less expensive knock off of the Columbia style fishing shirts with these pockets. I like them. We just have to accept the fact that sometimes we of the minority are right.

I believe the 10.5 requirement JUST changed with the latest edition. I have seen this in the Webelos handbooks and in my son's handbook which we just purchased in February.

Yes, but would serving brownies at an Eagle COH be considered politically incorrect if there were Brownies present?

I think you must look at the placement of the commas in these requirements: Meet age requirements. Be a boy who is 11 years old, or one who has completed the fifth grade or earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old. Interpretted this way, 1) Any 11 year old boy. OR2) Any 10 year old boy (not yet 18) who has completed the 5th grade or completed the Arrow of Light. In other words you must be at least 10 years old, if you have completed the 5th grade of earned AOL; OR you must be 11 years old. This makes sense, and I believe is the intent of the new rules. I ran into a similar gramatical/punctuation mismatch when I was in the 10th grade (it was a memorable moment for me--sad but true). There should not be a comma before the first "or" because there are only two plural items in the phrase <a comma is required ONLY if there are more than 2 plural elements>, however the second element of the plural phrase contains commas <hence requiring a semicolon to separate the plural elements>. As my 10th grade English teacher and I agreed, regardless of the actual grammar rules a semicolon ( ; ) preceeding the first "or" would provide more definitive separation of items. Just my 2

Guy, I agree that this system should be fairly simple and painless. It is just that it was not handled as very well the first time it was implemented here. I am hopeful that we will be much like yours from here on out. Rick, ALL MBCs are registered as district volunteers (registration code 42) and are approved on the council level. I have recently discovered that the system will record the MBCs preference to work only with a particular unit. They are still subject to the same rules, training, backgound check and approval process, but they do not appear on the "district" list. For our council, Troops are responsible to maintaining their own list (which is easy through Troopmaster). There is really no conflict here. It does require a degree of organization, that's all. Hope that helps.

I want to reply here, but I am about to leave town, so I will be brief. The ASE and CAC made the decision to push the delete button after conferring with National and determining we were not following policy. MBCs had been "rolled" year after year and a larger portion of these were not even in the area and may not have be been for years in some cases. It was decided to "pull the plug" and start over. Allegedly, everyone was set a letter explaining they had to come back in and renew or be dropped. Based on our finances, I doubt that hundreds of dollars were spent to send everyone a letter (I know I never received one...), and thought that is an issue, it is not where I want to take the discussion. After Council (pros and vols) recognized this was a little brutal, those who registered after a certain date (January?) were re-entered. Part of this was a result of Nationals advice to change MBC registration from Jan-Dec to Jul-Jun, a relief for the registrar (our units recharter Jan 1). This means she has Jul-Aug to take care of this before the Cub Scout push with the new school year, so we are already past our prime opportunity for this year. Things are looking better, and I am satisified with what the ASE and SE told me. It is for the greater good. I will talk about this more when I come back from this outing.