Buffalo Skipper

We had a very similar situation last year. We had two Webelos 2 dens. The boys in both dens had pretty much finished up the AOL quite early. The DL from one den had two sons, one of whom was a Boy Scout. Scouts from that den decided to cross over to a troop in November (older brother ran the OA crossover ceremony at the pack meeting). The other den could also have crossed over, but had absorbed 2 newly joined 5th graders, and it was agreed by these parents to wait until the end of February and cross at our traditional time. This allowed the new Webelos to complete their Webelos badge (min. 3 months) and their AoL, (min 3 more months), almost 6 months to the day from when they joined Cub Scouts. Without this DL who was willing to work with these new Webelos, they would not have been able to complete their AoL and join with the experience of Webelos. It ended working out well for everyone involved. edit: We discussed this at length last year, but I cannot find the thread at this time. Sorry, I though the material may have been helpful to you.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

We teach BSA's Training EDGE in our district. This is a 6 hour course. Expecting scouts can get this with a new knot in just 10 minutes is ludicrous--I mean Brilliant! I do like the idea of doing this at the PLC but keep in mind it is a part of the TLT program. And this is a great topic. With EDGE required for both Tenderfoot and Life ranks in a few months, it is important that we introduce this to our scouts in an effective manner. By "slide deck" do you mean something like flash cards?(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

The Arrowhead Honor is different from other adult scouting awards. Unlike training awards, keys or other knots which are worn with any or all uniforms, the Arrowhead Honor is only worn on a commissioner's uniform. Not on a boy scout uniform (SM, ASM, MC or CC), nor any other uniform other than that representing a commissioner. And the others here have it exactly right: unit numbers are not worn with Unit Commissioner, Roundtable Commissioner, Assistant/District Commissioner or Council Commissioner insignia, as these are all district/council level positions.

SSScout, thanks for the ideas on Ken Burns. Our family is in the middle of the National Parks right now, and it has us all captivated. I had not really considered a documentary What can you tell me about "Lewis & Clark: The Journey of the Corps of Discovery"?

Nothing happens after the 90 minutes are up, per se. But our council's first Winter Camp is only 4 days long, so we have a "rushed" schedule. I aleady have the scouts for one evening in addition to the daytime classes, so I want to be respectful of the scouts and try not to keep them from the fun around camp. I am however a stickler to the "no more, no less" school of Merit Badge Counseling, so I want to ensure that the scouts have the opportunity to complete all the requirements. I am finishing writing the "recomended to do in advance" list so that we have few partials, but neither do I want them to spend their whole time at camp "researching" for their MB and not having troop and fun time. It is all in finding the right balance.

Keeping the scout's attention is a consideration, but the truth is that I only have only been allocated an hour and a half to show one movie one night. I may be able to squeeze in one other night, but I am requesting that the scouts watch one movie on thier own before camp. One of the ones I am considering is The Red Badge of Courage. It is a story which most boys that age have read in school, so they should be familiar with the material, and it is only 69 minutes in length. I want to have a back-up if I can squeeze in another session (of if there are scouts who have not followed through with another movie in advance.

Or another spin on it, what do you do with a scout who has a complete uniform but refuses to wear it?

evmori, I agree that Scout Spirit reflects on attitude while particpating in Scout activities as well as in one's personal life. I also think that one's personal life may define exactly how one shows and demonstrates scout spirit, and that it may be different from scout to scout, depending on his setting. On the same note, I do not think it is difficult for a SM to understand and "judge" scout spirit. It is something which should be obvious in each scout, how they do or do not show it.

Our council is putting on a Winter Camp this year, and I am counseling American Heritage. I am looking for movie suggestions we can show after dinner. The requirement states: 5. Do ONE of the following: Watch two motion pictures (with the approval and permission of your counselor and parent) that are set in some period of American history. Describe to your counselor how accurate each film is with regard to the historical events depicted and also with regard to the way the characters are portrayed. I want to consider shorter movies, as this will be taking up time from the scout's free time in the evening. So many of what I consider great movies in American history tend to be much longer. What ideas can you off for this?

All this talk of uniforms not being required. Every one of the scouts in our troop OWNS a complete uniform. We have uniform inspections every month (even if informally) and we credit and recognize the patrols who are all in a complete uniform. Should we also begin recognizing those members and patrols who are too lazy to wear it to the meeting, because not doing so would be unfair? We expect all our scouts to have a backpack on certain outings (like backpack trips). Any scout who shows up with eveything packed in luggage is told they cannot participate. How many times has this happend to our scouts? Never. They understand that in order to participate in a backpack trip, they must have a backpack. There is no BSA rule about this and we have no fear of parental interventions (or ACLU lawsuits for that matter) because we are excluding Johnny. BORs are no different. It is not adding to any requirement. What if the scout starts using really foul language in describing his scouting experience. It that going to be tolerated because there is no rule stating that scouts can't use extreme explatives at a BOR, and expecting other behavior is adding to the requiremtents? Of course not. Any scout acting as such (even if he is not attempting to insult his review board) would be very carefully examined by the board. If the scout has a good reason not to have a uniform (like his house burned down that morning), it should be taken into consideration, and is certainly understandable. Otherwise, this is not adding to the requirements, folks. If the scout is embarrassed to be in a scout uniform, I would question his scout spirit and his commitment to the scout oath and law. If he is just too lazy to get into it, then I would question his scout spirit and his commitment to the scout oath and law. Uniforming is a method of scouting. Were he to overlook that at his BOR (if I were on the board) I might be willing to overlook advancement as a method as well. A board of review is no place to begin viewing the Eight Methods of Scouting as "multiple choice."

"I would be inclined to remove patrol recogition from the hands of the youth leadership..." eisely, Sorry, I am just a little slow this morning, but I don't understand what you are saying here. Thank you for your insight. This is still a work in progress, and this is a first draft. If you look at this (and consider my earlier comment regarding recognizing/rewarding new scout recruitment) you will see that there is a great similarity between what is being recognized here and the National Honor Patrol award. The time frame for the NHPA is 3 months. This is being set up as a stepping stone (with inter-troop recognition) to earn this award. Remember too, that when these awards were purchased, there were 6-8 active patrols in this troop. With only two now, it does dilute the significance of the Patrol of the Month, but it does foster a strong sense of patrol competition.

Back in December, I found a 4 year supply of Patrol of the Month ribbons in 6 colors. We have loosely had a PotM award ever since, but it has been largely skewed by the SPL awarding the patrol from which he came (we only have 2 active patrols right now). As such I came up with a hard point system, and included some variable points awarded by the SPL. What do you think of this: Max Pts Item Description0-20 Patrol Spirit Scaled 1-10 score for overall patrol spirit for the month (assigned by SPL)10 Patrol Assignments Performing patrol assignments (Service,Spirit, Program) to the satisfaction ofthe SPL5 Merit Badge For each Merit Badge Earned15Rank AdvancementFor each Rank Advancement earned10 Uniforms For 75% of attending patrol members being in acomplete uniformat 3 of 4 (or 4 of5) troop meetings each month10Meeting Attendance For 75% of the patrol attending 3 of 4meetings duringthe month10 Campout Attendance For 75% of the patrol attending themontly campout10 PLC attendance For having the PL or APL attend the montly PLC meeting10 Patrol Meeting For each Patrol Meeting (outside of troop meetings) 15Patrol Outing For each Patrol that month25 Patrol Campout For a Patrol Campout that month The first 2 items are for the SPL (the first is scaled, and the second is all or nothing) this still gets the SPL involved, but it makes the rest more "fair." Obviously this is meant to encourage patrol activites and participation. I have though about giving points for recruiting a new patrol member but I am undecided on that. Your thoughts?

My son wanted to earn his Home Repairs merit badge. My neighbor is a a contractor and quite a handyman, so I asked him if he would be he MBC. He filled out the paperwork and I turned it in. My son and I had done some around-the-house projects, but I insisted that he speak to his counselor. Over the weekend, he went over and knocked on the door and sat down on the front porch to talk about it. I went back to my workshop where I was working on a troop project. Though I was out of sight, they were in the open and I was within shouting distance. I poked my head out after about 15 minutes and I saw that my neighbor's son was hanging out with them as well. I had no problem with this arrangement. It is the first time my son had reached out to work on a MB like that. He is only 11, and it was a real confidence builder. I think it will go a long way to inspiring him to take on other badges when he finishes this one.

We removed a scout recently from our troop. It was the hardest thing I have done in scouting. The scout was a serious discipline problem. He had been counseled by me and other adults on virtually every campout. He intimidated (bullied) other scouts, blatently disobeyed, damaged property, stold, rigged elections, and was a significant disruptive influence in the troop (and this was just the past few months). The straw which broke the camel's back were facebook and myspace pages covered with material which was vulger, obscene, racist and just plain inappropriate for anyone, much less a 13 year old. It also included photos of scouts in suggestive poses with vulger names. It was the COR and CC who decided that after repeated discipline, the implied link from the material to the troop to the church (charter), enough was enough. I contacted the SE who removed the scout from the charter and sent a refund check for the balance of membership fees for the year. Our troop has made great progress since he left, and admitedly, the scouts have been markedly better behaved and focused (they were only told that he is no longer with the troop, the details have never been discussed openly--even to the committee). In spite of the imporved demeanor in the troop, I regret that I could not better reach this young man. He had continued to be oblivious to any concept of consequence, and incidents repeated themselves day after day; I can only hope he learned something positive from this.

This sounds like a lot like the purpose of a "new scout program" offered at many summer camps. And like those programs, it is the troop's responsibility to see that the scout has mastered these skills to their satisfaction. Apparently the scout was tested, but by leaders not approved by your troop and ones who are ignorant of your troops' standards and expectations. I think that many troops may have similar outings, we sometimes do, but they are more inocently veiled with other themes, such as "cooking," "orienteering," or "pioneering." On the other hand, We try to make our first campout after the Webelos crossover focused on some "bssic" skills: fire building, ax and knife safety, patrol ogranization, and we often have several competitive games included. We just don't call it an "advancement campout" but the focus is on delivering some basic advancement related skills to better prepare our youngest scouts for future campouts. So far, this has worked well for us.

Crow like Peter Pan! Sounds like you have a pretty good patrol mix, which makes this kind of thing much more attainable. My first inclination would be to talk to them about it and make sure they present a good plan to the Scoutmaster. My second inclination is to back off and let them do it on their own. I recommend you try the latter, especially since they have a back-up plan. Great story, and keep us posted how it goes. I can't wait to hear the follow up.

To keep them or send them--that is the question. I say do both. Get one of your ASMs or Committee members (preferably with Webelos expereince) to sign up with the pack as their Webelos Den Leader. Let them meet once a week an hour or so before the Troop meeting (where the troop meets). Have one of your older scouts be the Den Chief. Earning the Webelos takes 3 months and the AOL an addotonal 3 months. Keeping these boys together is important, but though it takes some effort, earning the AOL and crossing in 6 months (March) is a realistic order, if you are organized. Take advantage of the situation, but play by the rules. What a windfall!

Smithgall, I am sure that was a hard decision to make (leaving the troop). I am happy to hear you found an organization led by an experienced scouter who will support the program and that you can begin to grow with the new pack as well. It really sounds like you are heading in the direction which is best for the boys. It is unfortunate that some charter partners are less than involved with some units. We are fortunate that our COR is very involved with our troop his entire adult life; he earned his eagle with the same troop in 1953. Good luck with the new unit! You sure got it off the ground in a hurry!

No one gets credit for anything. Our treasurer believes firmly that fundraising should be a troop activity and should be to the benefit of the troop, not the individual; he also does not want to manage scout "accounts" and has strongly resisted all attempts to have them, even though others committee members (like the fundraising coordinator) have agreed to manage them.

CalicoPenn, That was the answer I was expecting. But prehaps I missed making the point. Assuming the scout completes the requirements (finishes the year with the Webelos den), would you submit the award and surprise him or talk to him about it and have him follow up on it for himself? Yes there is the argument that we do not submit scouts' rank requirements for them, but I see ranks as one beast and awards as quite another. I am not necessarily opposed to either view, I was just looking for some perspective. Back to the meat and potatos of the thread, I can see the argument for this to be made into a knot to be worn as an adult. But I dont really think that is appropriate here. There are some much more prestigious awards like the Ranger, which is certainly more involved than Eagle, but is not represented by a knot. Similar arguments can be made for the Quest, Trust or Denali awards, yet none of these offer an accompanying knot. (side note: the Ranger award used to have a knot, but that award was discontinued in 1951, and what is now offered is not the same award, though arguably is comperable).

dg98adams, the training begins this weekend. NYLT is not offered in our council; the nearest I have found is a 2 weekend course in a neighboring council late this winter. But it will require our scouts to take off two days of school due to differing school schedules. Only one of these scouts meets the minimum age requirements.

So with a truly green PLC (aside from my more wizened Instructor, the most experience anyone on the PLC has is 6 shaky months as a PL), how does one make suggestions without crossing the "doing it for them" line? I want to make a "leadership contract" with the PLC collectively, like I will support your decisions, so long as they do not jeopardize safety." But of course, I feel the need to take it farther than that, like "...and if it will not be a unmittigated disaster which sinks the troop" (or was that too harsh). In return I want the PLC members to pledge to listen to (not necessarily follow) my advice and consider it carefully before making decisions. I know we have discussed it before, but I still want to find ways to empower these scouts to make their own decisions and give them a real sense of ownership in the troop. And I want to inspire them to make their own plans for responsible, positive outings. I want to turn my unexpected circumstance of a young PLC into an opportunity to shape these scouts into strong leaders, skilled outdoorsmen and good citizens.

Always pleasing to hear a feel-good story. I hope with your recent advice on my other thread that we can have a similar happy ending to our PLC situation. Keep up the good work!

Every other winter our troop goes down to Crystal River (7 hour drive) to swim with the Manatees; it is a family campout. It started on President's day weekend, but our school district dropped that holiday 6 years ago, so it got crammed into a 2 night whirlwind (still with families). We usually take advantage of the 3-day weekend Martin Luther King weekend for a winter hike in the Appalachian foothills. This year, our school district has added a teacher planning day on the following Tuesday, so we have a 4-day weekend at our disposal. I proposed to our previous PLC that we move the manatee trip to this 4-day weekend so that we are not so rushed on this outing and can take advantage of the extra time to do some fun stuff (like maybe a day at Sea World or Busch Gardens). In years past we staying at a private campground on small spots with all the troop in one or two giant tents and all the adults (and families) in one or two more tents. With the bonus day, we can stay at a scout camp 30 miles away and drop the circus tents/soft-sided-condos. Everyone knows I am trying to promote a patrol-centric, youth run troop. Finally, I also suggested that this should be a scouts only event and leave families at home. The PLC throught this was all a great idea, but it has been met with resistance at the committee (and parent) level, primarily on 2 fronts. First, the committee felt this was going to be too expensive of a trip. They piped down a little when I suggested that the scouts should raise half the projected cost in fund raising, but that was not a home run, as our troop has never used funds for outings, only day-to-day operations. Second, several want this to be a family outing (one with an ASM son, a 17 year old who probably won't go, and cub scout son; and another MC with no scouts in the troop). To make my position clear, I am not opposed to a family campout every so often; in fact, I think it is a good thing. My objections here are, one, it is already expensive; two at a foreign scout camp, I dont want to have a family campout; and three, at an amusement park, I can see the families dragging the scouts away from the patrols. Had we a more experienced troop with different (youth) leadership, I may not be so against the family experience, but with mostly 11 and 12 year olds and a 13 year old SPL, they will be bowled over by parents wanting scouts to spend the day hopping the park with them. I really want this to be a fun outing with a real opportunity for the scouts and patrols to grow and bond. I am open to hear any opinion someone wants to offer, whether you agree with me or not. The (young) PLC will meet on Saturday, and I would like to have some info to throw at them regarding this, and be better prepared myself to make a decision I can stand by.

We never have either. And I am looking forward to it. I also would like to have 2 PLC outings per term doing something fun and, well, just memorable. Like climbing or sailing or an offshore fishing trip; not to really master skills but more like an outing-party than an event. Sure I expect it to be a team-building, bonding experience, but I want it to happen naturally, and not be forced. Fun would be theonly real item on the agenda.