MikeS72

That is also the case in my council. We were informed last week that all UMC units have until Oct. 31 to complete the process of finding a new CO.

Based on the illustration this is from some other Scout Association rather that BSA, most likely one of the European associations. I googled CWS cigarette cards and the only company I could find seemed to be Dutch.

Unless something has changed in the last few weeks the UMC was very upfront during the webinar with them and national council that there would be no exceptions to what was in the negotiated affiliation agreement. As many councils do not want to go the council holds the charter route I am pessimistic about the future of scouting and the UMC.

I have been both an Arrowman and an Eagle for more than half a century. Both were more rare back then than they are now, but I can honestly say that I have never known anyone who felt that being an Arrowman was a greater honor than being an Eagle. This one I will have to look up in the Guide to Inductions to see if there is any mention of putting someone on the ballot even if they object. I do know that I have seen Scouts left off of the ballot at their request on several occasions.

Back in the day when OA was Scouting's honor camper society that was true. Today OA is officially Scouting's National Honor Society. Camping requirements are still a part of the selection process, but no longer the main emphasis. Units control who is eligible for election through the approval of the SM. Units select the date of the election within the time frame specified by the lodge and chapter. Procedures for how the elections are conducted are set by OA, and should be uniform nation wide. While an election team will tell the unit that if there are brand new crossovers who do not know anyone well enough to be comfortable with voting they have the option to not submit a ballot. It is not unusual to see some of those new scouts take that option, particularly since we hold election in the fall and frequently have brand new recruits who have not yet had the opportunity to camp regularly with the older scouts. I am confident that if one of our election teams was told "we do not allow anyone who does not have 10 days and nights of camping along with a summer camp to vote"; that unit would be informed that that is not how elections are conducted. (not to mention that those requirements to vote are more stringent than those to be elected). I do sometimes wish that lodges or chapters would not encourage units to elect everyone who meets the minimum requirements, and that there was once again a max number of people who could be elected from the unit each year.

If you earned your Eagle in the 90's you will find that a lot of folks still wear that uniform. It is made of a different material (more comfortable) than the new uniform shirts. Other than that the biggest thing you will notice at just a glance is the brown buttons rather than the tan on the uniforms we currently have, along with saying Boy Scouts of America over the right pocket rather than the new BSA logo.

As long as there is a lake for that flaming arrow to be extinguished in that can still be impressive, and I was the person shooting that arrow on several occasions (might not quite jib with the Outdoor Code or Leave No Trace though 😇). As for the face painting, I remember ceremonies in the 60's where the was not only face paint used but the team went through a couple of gallons of red body paint to mimic native coloration. Looking back now, I cannot believe we thought that was ok. One of the primary reasons we stopped using face paint was that a lot of it was copied from what those ceremonialists saw in pictures. The problem with that was that may of those pictures depicted designs that were religious in nature; I am greatful that we no longer do that.

I do not usually respond to your posts as I see them a coming from a perspective that is decades old and may not fit well in today's wold. That being said, there is just some much here that is wrong on many levels, particularly that next to last sentence Native American youth comes from a family of drugs and alcohol. I feel for anyone who would make a comment like that, regardless of source.

We do elections and call out in the fall, with our ordeal weekends in January. Helps keep them alive during the ordeal by not doing it in the Florida summer heat.😁

We have a council fee, but our council uses it to be able to provide a number of activities at no additional charge to units. Things like district camporee, cub family camp, cub district shooting sports days, BALOO and IOLS training no longer have a fee associated with them. They also greatly reduced the fees for both NYLT and Woodbadge.

As far a I am aware Mic-O-Say is limited to one council and one camp. Many of the complaints that I have seen raking OA over the coals for cultural insensitivity are actually accounts of Mic-O-Say and have had photos to show that. To the average outside person, there is no difference. In this day and age I do not see how it is still allowed to continue unchallenged by National.

I have downloaded this to compare with the version released prior to the online webinar many of us attended on June 16th. Before I compare it line by line, has anyone else done that and if so, are there substantial differences or is this the same document? Also, is anyone else in a council who has said that they will not (at least at this time) be offering the option for the council to hold the charter? This is dated 6/29/2022 and we were told on 6/30 that our council wouild not (at this time) serve as CO for units currently chartered by the UMC.

Cut and pasted directly from the pamphlet on scouting.org. I think that the OP is refering to the note at the bottom of page 204. (l) Using a .22 caliber rimfire rifle and shooting from a benchrest or supported prone position at 50 feet, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter. Using these targets, explain how to adjust sights to zero a rifle. (m)Adjust sights to center the group on the target* and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) A-32 targets—9; (2) A-17 or TQ-1 targets—7; (3) A-36 targets—5 *NOTE: It is not always practical to adjust the sights (i.e., when using a borrowed fixed-sight rifle). For requirement 2(l), you may demonstrate your ability to use the shooting fundamentals by shooting five shot groups (five shots per group) in which all shots can be covered by or touch a quarter and then explain how to adjust the sights to zero the rifle used.

If you are refering to the UMC units; a lot. After the LDS exit the UMC became the largest charter partner in BSA. I believe I read somewhere north of 2,000 units nationwide.

In many council the Catholic Dioceses has already withdrawn from charterining units. In my council units have been told that when the current charters expire they will not be renewed. Many of us are hoping that something similar to the UMC agreement can be worked out with the Dioceses.

It appears that there are quite a few councils who do not appear to care for or support the UMC Affiliation Agreement. By the way, I noticed the noblest of creatures in your profile pic! Beaver Patrol, MT-14 1972 here!

Just sent it to you.

Units in our council have been told by the Diocese that they will no longer charter units. I have seen this happen in a number of other areas as well. Maybe local councils can re-open discussions with these Diocese using this as agreement as a model.

On page 3 of the agreement it states "Allow the unit(s) to store a reasonable amount of materials and equipment in a designated area." On page 4 under the unit responsibilities it states "Reimburse the local council for cost of insuring unit's assets and equipment". In the same section it states "Follow all local council policies and procedures regarding the management of funds. For units specific bank accounts, units will submit annual finance report and other reporting as prescribed by the local council".

We will see exactly what the information we get from council will say in relation to unit assets, but my initial thought is that it will not be much different than it is now with the charter organization being the technical owner of those assets. Just means that instead of a troop trailer being registered in the CO's name it will be registered in the name of the local council. While we will have to wait a few days for word on exactly how this will work, I cannot picture anyone being told that they must turn equipment in to be held by the council. Think of the logistical nightmare of a council trying to store hundreds of trailers and thousands of tents, chuck boxes, etc. Not to mention checking those items back out to units. They would need several new full time employees just to begin to cope with things. My hope is that they will see this model and work to offer a similar affiliate agreement rather than simply telling units that have a long tenure with their parish to go away. I am sure that some UMC chartered units will try to find a new CO, and I wish them luck in doing so if that is what they feel is best for their scouts. Having read through the affiliation agreement I don't really see much of a change in day to day operations other than the fact that unit assets will belong to the council rather than the CO and that units will have to make changes to bank accounts using the council EIN rather than the CO's.

It was made pretty clear during the webinar last night that there will be no variations of the affiliation agreement from council to council or unit to unit. As far as I understood what was presented the UMC local church and the unit can enter into this affiliation agreement with the local council taking ownership of the unit and it's assest or the unit can seek another charter organization and request a facilities use agreement. They said that they expect to sent out a link to everyone who was registered for the webinar in about a week or so with the recording of the proceedings and a FAQ answering questions that were posted last night.

This is what I said last fall was the most likely outcome of the negotiations between the UMC and BSA. I don't think that it is a stretch to think that this may be the norm in a few years and that many of the larger charter organizations will go the same route.

I would be glad to defend you. I completely understood what you were saying. Not absurd at all. If I understand everything that I have read you may have said liability backward. As I understand the insurance issue Charter Orgs were not specifically covered PRIOR to 1976, and could therefore be left holding the bag for any claims from whenever the abuse may have taken place, up to 1976.

We have an active ScoutReach program in our area, which is most definitely suburban rather than inner city.

It is good to see that they did the right thing and turned the thief away. Since it says his arrival was caught on camera there is hope he will be identified and apprehended.