Hawkwin

I get that, and I can sympathize. That being stated, how do you differentiate between how Scouting has evolved in this capacity with how American society has evolved? You call them liberal norms on sexuality and gender but I think it might be safe these days to call them simply norms without any additional qualifiers of conservative or liberal. SCOTUS has ruled on gay marriage, and next year may rule on sexuality as a protected class (like race and gender) and even the military, including combat arms, is now accepting of gays and coeds. The fact that BSA doesn't make you conform to such should make it a refuge for you. For those with "traditional conservative values," the non-compulsory environment of BSA seems to suggest that there is still a home for you in it - just like America is still a home for you despite the changing norms.

How? All the recent membership decisions have been voluntary. No Troop has been required to accept membership of gays or girls. Personally, Scouting is so much more to me than just sexual preference or gender.

Pet store will be our solution, unfortunately. Likely starting this weekend.

Is this event roughly the same date every year? This was to be our first year to participate but with the newly expanded Fall Break school schedule, we were out of town (hiking the AT) and could not easily coordinate such so we missed it. If it is the same date every year, then I wonder if the change in school schedules might be impacting attendance a bit.

Perhaps, but I don't get that sense from the OP. This might be a great learning opportunity for those scouts that are dropping out of the hike - an opportunity for them to show perseverance in the face of, what appears to be, parents that have simply not been well educated on how Boy Scouts is different than Cub Scouts. A great opportunity for those scouts to perhaps learn how to politely and respectfully inform those parents as to how this particular hike functions best for the Troop. I am a parent of a 1st year scout so I can completely relate. It is a common occurrence for me to have to "cut the strings" for my Tenderfoot while at the same time, remind him to do things I wish he would already do on his own - both in and out of scouts. If I didn't hike with him all the time already, I could see how I might feel the same way those moms do.

Wait, is this boy-lead or not? Why are those older boys letting some new moms run their program? The only "watering down" that is happening is the boys quitting in the face what appears to be some mild opposition and lack of education on the part of those new Boy Scout moms. If this is a boy-lead organization, then the boys plan the hike and if there is a planned limit on the number of adults attending as well as an understanding as to how fast of a pace will be set, then so be it.

Tahawk, do you acknowledge that Venturing was not a part of BSA when this document was originally created? If so, then do you also acknowledge that the document can be changed over the decades and centuries and that it has been changed to include coed Venturing as well as many other changes? If so, then can you also acknowledge that simply because it does not state that "Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity Scouting are for boys and girls" currently, that the document could be changed to state that in the future? I am confident that your interpretation that female Venturers voids the charter is incorrect as I am also confident that this document can be reworded to include girls in other scouting entities. Again, you are welcome to disagree and I encourage you to exhaust all the legal remedies at your disposal if you feel so strongly. My confident assumption is that if you had legal standing, such would have already been challenged with the inclusion of coed Venturing decades ago - either in the courts or via internal process to challenge changes to the Charter and Bylaws further up in this same document.

Is there any reason why a group of adults couldn't simply form a new organization with a different name? Seems like there is already quite a bit of competition between various youth organizations. Heck, there is even the Baden-Powell Service Association : https://www.bpsa-us.org/ (fair warning, they include girls). Welcome to BPSA The Baden-Powell Service Association offers a community-oriented traditional scouting program for youth and adults of all genders in the United States. There is no religious requirement and our groups are independent from sponsoring organizations. We offer the experience of scouting to anyone who wishes to join us. We are not affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America or the Girl Scouts, USA or their governing scout associations. We are members of the World Federation of Independent Scouts (WFIS) and as such are not in competition with other American scouting associations; we are only their brothers and sisters in scouting. Traditional Program Traditional scouting is a method that harkens back to the original principles and practices of Scouting's founder, Robert Baden-Powell. Our program and coursework are modeled after B-P's original texts, and our method is simple: we promote good citizenship, self-reliance, loyalty, and outdoor skills. Our focus is on empowering youth through hands-on practice in small groups, led by peer leadership.

Once I bolded a section, everything else I typed would be bolded, even after I turned bold off again. I had to highlight the text when I was finished to unbold sections.

I don't set them aside, I simply point out in the same document you quote, BSA eventfully defines the classes of membership. You are welcome to reject my interpretation but the document speaks for itself. If your quoted section prohibits girls in any capacity, then BSA would never have been legally allowed to have female Venturers.

Can you repeat any of the above or does each of the three have to be unique? I moved to a new home one year ago and we simply don't have anything that can be done on this list other than paint another wall or ceiling or reinforce another picture frame. Nothing is broken, nothing need be replaced, nothing mended. It could be years (hopefully) before we need to fix any of those. The MBC has stated that we are to do these on our own and just take pics of the project as proof that it has been done. My scout needs one more on this list to be completed. None of our local relatives need any work done either and we would like to avoid roaming the neighborhood looking for someone that needs b, c, d, e, or g. I guess we could always break a piece of pottery and mend it but would also like to avoid that. I doubt the final product will look quite as nice as the original. I also guess we could just go buy a cheap piece of pottery too if the answer to the above inquiry is "no."

Good question, and I think the answer is probably neither. When you and I were kids, there were only a few things that competed for our attention. For my scout son, there are probably 10 times as many things that compete for his attention. I don't honestly think there is anything BSA could do to retain the attention and the membership percentages it may have enjoyed decades ago. Even when I think of sports, there was a single sport per season. You could play football in the fall, basketball in the winter/spring, and baseball in the summer. No soccer, no cross country, no wrestling, no hockey, etc. etc. My son is way more busy than I was at his age. Scouts have to find a way to fit into that in a manner that hopefully doesn't force a kid to pick between two things he loves. When my son crossed over, we could pick between two local troops. One that meets on Sunday night (no conflicts with any extra-curricular activities) or one that meets on Tuesday nights (all sorts of conflicts). Every single scout in his Webelos den picked the troop that met on Sunday night - largely due to that convenience and lack of conflict. Every single scout the year prior made the same choice. I am sure that there are many lovely things about the other troop but Tuesday night meetings ruin it for them, and many parents have told them such. Regarding your list of documents, all but the 10 Commandments (which is really a small part of a much larger book obviously), have all significantly changed over time. Take the Bible, from the first book the last, "rules and regulations" evolved. They evolved so much that now, many faiths largely ignore entire sections of the Old Testament - for right or wrong reasons. The Magna Carta has changed numerous times since its creation with many sections repealed due to their lack of modern day relevance. The Constitution of course has been amended 27 times.

You didn't read far enough. ARTICLE VII. YOUTH MEMBERSHIP Section 1. Those eligible to participate in programs designed for youth and young adults shall collectively be known as “youth program participants.†Youth membership in the Boy Scouts of America is open to all who meet the membership requirements. Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity Scouting are for boys. Venturing is for young men and young women. Those youth program participants who are at least 18 years of age and eligible to participate in programs designed for youth shall be referred to as “adult program participants.†Section 2. Both membership in Scouting and advancement and achievement of leadership in Scouting units are open to all boys and, where authorized, young women, without regard to race or ethnic background, and advancement and achievement of leadership in Scouting is based entirely upon individual merit. ---------------- I expect, based on the result of the national vote, we will see Section 1 reworded appropriately. But, anyone that feels strongly that they are in violation of Congressional statute certainly has legal remedies. There appear to be enough like-minded scouters that could pool their resources into a court challenge if they so desired. Probably a few attorneys that would even take the case pro bono.

Strike #3. Son states that there are no reptiles or amphs kept as pets in his school either. Pet store will end up being our next stop. I must have searched for about an hour trying to find a specimen on a webcam but no zoos, pet stores, or home cams could be found.

Beat me to it.

I get that there are probably quite a few single mothers that find benefit in this feature, but I don't see any specific reference to that being a state goal of BSA. There is one section that I can find that states, "Scout leaders can be positive role models..." but it doesn't state male role models, and I imagine that text was written after the inclusion of female leaders in scouts (an admitted guess on my part). That being stated, I fail to see how the inclusion of girls in any way limits a boy for access to male leaders in scouts. Can you illustrate why the inclusion of girls means that boys no longer have access to male role models in scouts?

I have worked with women the majority of my life and I can't say that I share any of your experiences. Even when I moved from an all-male active duty infantry unit to a co-ed reserve Civil Affairs unit, nothing like you stated happened.

With all due respect to BP, I care as much about his opinion on the inclusion of girls in BSA as I do about the Founding Fathers opinion on women being able to vote. That doesn't mean I condemn either based on modern morality, but it also doesn't mean that I think we should be wedded to or stuck with 19th century thinking.

Still working on this but I wanted to thank everyone for their ideas so far. We struck out on the local nature center allowing free admission. Also struck out on any known friends with a pet. Latest attempt is to see if there are any amphs or reptiles in the school that are kept as pets. If that does not work, the pet store will likely be the next stop.

Ha! Now that is a novel work-around!

Perhaps answers to most of our questions. Note, I've not listed to this yet nor read the transcript. I will comment once I have. BSA Chief answers your questions about welcoming girls into BSA programs https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/11/21/bsa-chief-answers-your-questions-about-welcoming-girls-into-bsa-programs/ Snip:

We just upped our dues because of a lack of participation in the troop-level fundraising events. Popcorn sales go entire to the individual scout accounts which can be used to pay for dues but if the scout does no fundraising, We also changed our troop-level fundraising events to be scout specific in the future (all money to the scout accounts). it was determined that those that don't participate in fundraising should bare the full cost of membership instead the scouts that participate in fundraising subsidizing such.

That assumes one has a pet snake. If you don't want a reptile or an amphib for a pet, then this "study" becomes rather difficult.