Eagle1993

Our camp is pushing hard for more signups, even today. They have emphasized they absolutely plan on holding camp. Now the CDC and health departments will have a say, and I expect <50% chance it happens. My Troop has over 40 signed up for summer camp at this time. Over 400 are signed up for June dates (3 weeks) at the camp we attend. We had only 1 scout pulled … that could change. We had an ASM get Covid-19 about two weeks ago, but he wants camps to be active and plans to send his kids. We have several scout parents that are doctors and nurses … they are signing up as well. What is interesting, is that the parents who are closer to health care are actually raising less concerns than the parents without health care backgrounds. Now this could be based upon assumptions from the parents in health care of where we will be at in terms of the infection in late June vs non healthcare parents who are looking at the situation of where we are at now. Just a guess.

I'm starting to see several summer camps cancelled. The below two were announced this week. Not sure if there were others …. Blackhawk Area Council (Northern Illinois) Sam Houston Area Council (Houston Texas)

I feel for him as well. A lot of tough decisions to make. I think his current goal should be keeping this a Chapter 11 and preventing Chapter 7. Then rebuild ...

It looks like the CDC & White House are working on guidance that includes summer camp recommendations. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cdc-draft-proposal-lays-out-phased-reopening-of-childcare-religious-institution-food-industry-amid-coronavirus "As for summer camps, the CDC draft recommends that camps be restricted to children of essential workers in phase one, with phase two welcoming children who live in the local area only. By phase three, the CDC recommends that camps restrict attendance to those from limited transmission areas." I don't see any way High Adventure camps open this year given this guidance and if you live in high transmission areas you are probably out of luck for all camps all summer. BSA summer camps would struggle to open depending on what is defined by "local area" and timing of phase two in each state. So far, GSUSA cancelled but my kids other camps are still open (Zoo, local universities, local museums, local ecology centers). GSUSA asked everyone to not ask for refunds and just use the fees for future years ..

Our PLC is telling scouts to focus on the MBCs that require tracking (personal fitness, personal management) or are bookwork (Citizenships) right now. The idea is to get those out of the way so you can focus on the outdoor ones later. I thought that wasn't a bad idea.

We received a couple emails from two councils who have camps in our state yesterday (seems like yesterday was the day to release updates). 1) Camps are still being planned; however, that can change. 2) Camps will implement additional changes (temperate checks of everyone at arrival, hand sanitizer provided to everyone + at various locations, etc.) 3) Three proposals are in discussion … summer camp schedule with no changes, summer camps to begin July 5 (June dates cancelled), alternate camping/advancement option if traditional summer camps are cancelled. 4) All councils who have camps in our state are meeting to have a common plan for summer camp this year. 5) CDC, state and county health departments are being consulted. Next update is May 4th.

Our camp is 100% patrol cooking, there is no dining hall. Meals are cooked and eaten in Troop camp sites. Our biggest building simply has a roof over a slab of concrete (no walls). I agree early June in a building half filled seems risky.

We are having similar discussions. Our plan A is stick with our June date … but I expect that will be cancelled. Plan B is to go to same camp in mid/late July. Plan C is different camp in mid/late July. Plan D is our own Troop summer camp in late July or August (we have 2 crews headed to Philmont in August). Plan F is an additional extended weekend in the Fall. Plan G is a week in Florida during winter break. Plan H is giving up until 2021 or later when a vaccine or good treatment becomes available. What gives me some confidence is that we have many scout parents who are doctors and nurses … all of them have shown support in us going to summer camp. Now if our state numbers start looking like NYC I'm sure that could change. I have a bad feeling that this may be the last summer of many of these summer camps. Between BSA bankruptcy, FOS failure, recession/depression, loss of summer camp income, falling rosters and failing units … I expect many camps will be sold after this summer. I hope I'm wrong.

Our schools are shut down for the semester as well, but the DOE removed minimum hour requirements so most schools are ending on time using online learning. Our school had talked about going until end of June, but several parents in our Troop (including me) will pull our kids from school to attend summer camps if they are open.

So far, not a single one of my kids camps have cancelled. GSUSA, BSA, Zoo, various museums, college nor a local ecology center. YMCA, JCC and other major overnight 3+ week camps are still going. Without these camps, many parents will not be able to work or they resort to less than ideal solutions where older family members are watching kids. I have seen countless examples of <15 year olds being watched by >70+ year olds … a very BAD combination which seems to be increasing daily. Having these kids go between camps for the summer may be safer than having them be around high risk people as businesses reopen and parents go back to work. You need to balance perfection (100% of people locked away until a vaccine) with how people will really respond. We are only 1 month in and lawsuits are starting in my state to undo the directives of the Governor and protests are mounting. Many businesses have threatening to reopening in my area in defiance to the Governor and several sheriff departments have stated they will not enforce the lockdown. I'm not a fan of this chaos, only pointing out there is backlash growing and to expect everyone to be locked down in July like they are today is completely unrealistic. BSA should follow CDC & state guidance. CDC and the state should be looking at infection rates and balancing the risks. I trust the CDC and state health departments will make better calls than 100s of individual camps. At this point, I expect June camps will be (and should be) cancelled, but sometime in July may be ok … but that is a guess. High Adventure will likely be cancelled for the season (too much potential to mix across country); however, BSA should be preparing as if they are "on" until CDC and state health departments respond. The camp we go to is adding guidance and changes for COVID-19. I think more is needed and will be provided. As a Troop, we already started to discuss additional steps such as adults in the patrol kitchens to inspect KP, adults helping to enforce hand washing. No personal KP (disposable only). Daily temperature checks. Etc. … I hate this as I generally think adults should be out of the patrol areas, but this year is different. Nothing will be 100%, but to be fair, I think being outside in the sun and fresh air is much safer than any trip to my local grocery store.

CDC document below https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/f99f42b3-55c4-4613-9f9c-3ac174f10a4b/note/1a8a55a6-68f9-4b76-8e02-01779290c1a5.#page=1

CDC/FEMA documents leaked to Washington Post. While the details are probably changing, the priority is interesting and not a surprise for the many families out there that have dual incomes. Notice the term locally attended.... that could be a bad sign for HA bases. Again, leaked document that could easily change, but you can see the CDC mindset. The first priority, according to the CDC response document, is to "reopen community settings where children are cared for, including K-12 schools, day cares, and locally attended summer camps, to allow the workforce to return to work. Other community settings will follow with careful monitoring for increased transmission that exceeds the public health and health care systems." https://www.thehour.cvom/news/article/CDC-FEMA-have-created-a-plan-to-reopen-America-15200830.php

We have no plans to use these alt requirements. The only real exception we plan to use is for 1 scout who is 17 and turns 18 in July. His Eagle Scout project is definitely impacted by Covid-19 so we plan to work with him on an extension if he needs it. Otherwise, we don't see any need to change requirement

Its early April. I expect by end of May (7 weeks from now) we will have many of those things in place. Perhaps not in all states, but enough that will allow many summer camps to run. I could see those camps limit participants to only scouts from the state or within a limited range … but I would be surprised if 100% of camps are closed all summer. I would also expect dates in July and August are more likely to operate than June. I actually believe high adventure is a bigger risk. That brings in scouts throughout the country, including mixing scouts between high and low covid-19 areas. That seems to be a much bigger risk than having scouts within a specific region go to summer camp.

Actually, Harvard agrees with @qwazse. Even Dr. Fauci talked about opening up summer camps yesterday (depending on the rate in May). Depending on seasonality, the models show that social distancing occurring between 25 percent and 75 percent of the time would both build immunity and keep the health care system from overloading. As time passes and more of the population gains immunity, they said, the restrictive episodes could be shorter, with longer intervals between them. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/03/how-to-prevent-overwhelming-hospitals-and-build-immunity/

I'll add one more comment. Only 1 of our 50 scouts going to summer camp dropped out due to Covid-19 (the rest already paid). So, parents & scouts are more than willing to go if it is open. I think that could change if our area infection rate shoots up, but so far so good...

I think its too early to know for sure. Unless you are willing to do a 18 month to 2 year mandatory lock down of the entire country (until a vaccine is available), some activities will reopen with Covid-19 infections still out there. I expect this may be a state by state call based upon density of the virus in their community. What we need is sufficient testing to really determine the density of the infected in each community and then appropriate guidelines based upon that density. It could definitely mean limiting camps to local scouts (with xx miles) to prevent spread between communities. It could mean facemasks and end of some activities (big group fire ceremonies, dining halls and even water front). We go to a patrol cooking camp and our troop has discussed use of biodegradable utensils (no personal KP), additional monitoring/instructions of KP, additional monitoring/instructions for hand washing, face masks, etc. The only real way out of this is a vaccine and there is no way the country will shut down fully until that is available (which in best case in large volumes would be 18 months to 2 years). So, we will need to live with this and find ways to limit risk. If summer camp is open, I'll be there with my Troop. We will work to minimize risk. If they close camp, I'm ok with that call. I just hope they can ramp up testing further to see where this is really spreading and take appropriate action. I tend to agree this summer may be too soon to have all of this in place … but one can hope.

I doubt a nationwide shutdown will occur until September. This will go to a state by state, city by city call. Many countries, including China, are operating with the virus. This is a pause while we catch up on testing to find out what areas are actually hit hard. Areas not hit hard will release and monitor. If the testing shows cases rise above a certain level, they shut down again. I would expect limits, but most scout camps are probably <1000 people, so hopefully they could go on. Just a guess … probably more hope … of what will happen. I do agree that many units will fold, especially those that were on the brink. Perhaps there will be some sort of surge as well, especially if BSA can ramp up service aspects that could come out of this.

What was interesting, is that we never placed a value on those paintings in our filings … just listed that we have them. I would be in favor of selling them if it helps protect some camps from sales. What I found interesting, is that for the first time I have read, an attorney representing victims said something could be protected. He likened it a bit to not touching "cherished religious relics". In terms of scouting, my "cherished religious relic" would be my summer camp I went to as a youth .. or perhaps Philmont … not a painting. Perhaps those outside the organization don't understand scouting if they think paintings should be protected but land disposed of.

While I sometimes wish we would defend current practices more, I have to agree with @Cburkhardt. Trying to fight the narrative now is like spitting into the wind. We have to take our lumps. I was surprised to have a couple parents come up and vigorously (in anger) defend the BSA. I think BSA's response, "we believe you, we are upset about the sins of the past and we want you to come forward" works. In the short term, we will be hit, but after bankruptcy, we can start anew and while holding true to the scout oath & law.

How does the Michigan Crossroads council work? It looks like an interesting structure 1 mega council, smaller service centers & multiple districts per service center. Does that result in a good balance between optimizing finances while still preventing the downsides of mega councils? What is the role of the service center vs council?

This was mentioned in the article; however, that means Council assets (buildings, camps, investments) could be included. "Garabedian said individual councils could petition the bankruptcy judge to join BSA’s filing with a “channeling injunction” and their assets would be subject to being collateralized to pay into BSA’s victims’ compensation trust. " Note that courts have not been consistent on agreeing on which assets are unencumbered (just look at the Milwaukee Archdiocese cemetery fund case. My only point is that before we start suggesting mergers between councils, we need to get through bankruptcy (including councils). Let this settle out and then reform councils with the remaining assets.

@HashTagScouts and @carebear3895 … I didn't even think of the increased nation fees on councils that will be coming, but you are right. There was a lawyer asking how the BSA plans to pay their massive legal fees given the income was relatively low. But I was thinking the state lawsuits that will be placed. This article below is simply one example. Both National BSA & council were sued in state court. National BSA was asked to be pulled from the lawsuit given the bankruptcy filing … but the lawsuit will continue against the council. https://www.seacoastonline.com/news/20200220/boy-scouts-file-for-bankruptcy-after-sex-abuse-lawsuits-how-will-this-impact-local-troops “Litigation will continue against the state councils in the (superior) courts,” Garabedian said. “Filing for bankruptcy stops civil litigation (against BSA), but it does not stop litigation against the (state) councils as separate corporations. With 1,000 to 5,000 plaintiffs, expect many state lawsuits … especially ones in states that have removed the statue of limitations … and many states are in the process of changing their laws. See below for a good summary for a reddit poster: The reorganizaiton plan includes plans for "Local Council Trust Contributions" and "Chartered Organization Trust Contributions" (Exhibits H and I). From DEBTORS’ INFORMATIONAL BRIEF Page 4 Page 6 Some local councils will be turning over financial data as part of the bankruptcy. See page 7 Look at the Illinois example .. lets say there are two councils (A and B). A has 20M of assets, B has 5M. Lets say B has 10 victims and A has 0. Why would A merge with B until B declares bankruptcy to clear out any possible judgements that would have hit the AB council after merger?

I think the question is … will it be better to see each Council go bankrupt as they are structured now, or wait for them to merge, sell of property and go bankrupt? Illinois is a perfect example. Nearly every day, when listening to Chicago radio, I hear ads to file lawsuits given Illinois change to the statue of limitations they passed in 2019. They specifically mention scouts, hospitals, schools, etc. If the northern councils in Illinois are strong financially, they will be a target. So, will it be better for these 3 to merge, combine all the lawsuits against them, and go bankrupt together? Or, perhaps 1 or 2 could survive without bankruptcy. Not sure, but that should be the only driving force behind mergers at this time. Most settlements I have seen with the Catholic church show payouts averaging $1M per victim. BSA is estimating 1,000 to 5,000 victims, so $1B to $5B in a settlement. $1B means loss of all high adventure camps and national cash. $5B probably means all council camps are lost as well. Councils, just like National, needs to be focused on navigating bankruptcy. The lawyers suing the BSA want to liquidate everything. National, councils, units, charter orgs … everything. Churches are hard to sell ... but camp property is fairly easy, so I don't expect them to rest until they have their pound(s) of flesh. I really believe the next 3-4 years (I expect it will take that long), national, councils and charter orgs focus will be some sort of financial survival. The day to day program survival (recruiting, events, etc.) will be up to districts (who have no assets) and units (who are probably too small to sue). So, I think topics such as what units & districts should be doing during bankruptcy makes sense, but councils and National will be focused elsewhere.

1000% agree. Unless I'm missing something, it would be incredibly stupid for councils to start merging now. Why would any financially strong council merge with a weaker one in the face of litigation? Depending on how the national bankruptcy shakes out, I could see lawyers going after councils and a series of bankruptcies there (or perhaps councils brought into the National bankruptcy). Now, post bankruptcies, I think it really depends on what is left of the BSA. If, as rumored, a lot of work will transfer from National to councils, then it probably makes sense for many council mergers. However, it seems too early to even consider given the litigation we are facing.