Eagle1993

This one snuck in when the other change was announced (about adults staying overnight). A registered female adult leader 21 years of age or over must be present for any activity involving female youth or female adult program participants. So, what is the change? In the past, "female adult program participants" wasn't listed. So, my understanding, is if you have a female 18-20 attending an event, you need a registered female adult leader 21 years or older.

Deleted my thread. 😄

200 BSA councils going through bankruptcy over a 10 year period while National BSA goes Ch 7 is not going to lead to success.

1) The franchise agreement isn't clear. Some have argued that the BSA trustee could pull all LC charters. If that charter is pulled, the agreement states National owns the remaining assets. LCs could fight that but that would be a court fight. In the meantime, they couldn't use the trademarks or program material. Why did BSA include a full national (including LC) liquidation in their analysis... Because of this theory. 2) How much would they pay for the trademarks and program material? $100M? $400M? The trustee would drive that price up as high as possible. 3) It is estimated that 1/3 of councils would immediately face bankruptcy due to lawsuits. COs would also be directly hit and many more would flee. 4) Remaining LCs would face decades of future lawsuits. 5) Insurance companies would avoid BSA or jack up rates until the situation is resolved. 6)Donations would dry up as no one would want their money going to bankruptcy payments. National already sees this... Once their protection is gone, FOS would be hit. BSA knows it is a disaster which is why they never even seriously considered the mini Ch7 offered by TCC (national only bankruptcy+ buyout by council). A full CH 7 could be the end.

BSA will not go Ch 7. Based on their most recent cash burn they can last over a year without looking at Ch7. Even after that year they could get more money from councils, etc. Ch 7 is utter disaster. BSA trademarks and program materials would be sold. All properties sold. There are legal arguments that would be pursued to pull in all council assets. Then CO and LCs would be sued. BSA would likely not survive. Ch 7 was a threat to get approval of a plan. If it does happen, who knows the outcome for claimants financially. I think it would be bad for everyone excluding those who simply want BSA to die as they would likely get their wish.

I see a few milestones to watch for .. Purdue Pharma appeals outcome. I believe the district court ruling in Purdue Pharma did cause a bit of a quake through the bankruptcy courts. An appeals ruling against the plan could perhaps be used to either reject BSA's plan or justification for a stay if the BSA district court approves the plan. Prof Jacoby has mentioned this in the past. BSA District Court ruling ... per Prof Jacoby, now it is more and more likely we will see Purdue appeals ruling first as we wait while for the District Court ruling. One good thing ... the BSA District Court judge has already told Biden he is retiring this year, so it likely won't take all year. Appeals of District Court ruling ... from various articles and messages here, it seems clear that either side will appeal the District Court ruling, regardless of outcome. Appeals court stay ... will the appeals court in BSA stay the effective date of the plan? BSA's actions ... what will BSA do? As mentioned, if there is a stay, we could be looking at 1 year more of limbo. Will BSA continue to limp until mid 2024? Will any insurance company settle and drop appeals? Will the judge allow payment of the fees from the Coalition & other law firms? Time will tell...

One of my fears is that CAC's $20/month fee was the foot in the door. Many people who are younger seem to gravitate to the subscription model. This car will only cost you $400/month. This home will only cost you $2500/month. If you don't look at the total cost of something, the monthly fees don't seem that bad (until you add them all up). BSA only costs $20/month in CAC ... $20/month sounds perfectly reasonable until you multiple that by 12 and realize a few years ago the equivalent was only $30/year. Once you establish $20/month then a change to $22/month much easier than trying to make a $24/year annual increase. Perhaps this is where we are headed ... if we are, I'll probably not be around for the ride.

Only name I see on the 2020 990 form is JAMES PARNELL who was paid $104K. Honestly not too bad compared to most councils I have seen.

Welp .... CAC has now paused the new fee schedule. Based on feedback from parents & volunteers, Crossroads of America council has decided to pause the new fee structure. My daughter's annual Girl Scout fee is $25. As mentioned, 4H and other similar organizations have pretty low annual fees. BSA thinking $300+ is reasonable is completely wrong. Members within CAC are still upset. The entire council volunteer corp & paid leadership approved the fee. Hopefully a warning to other councils think about a massive fee increase.

Thanks for the updates! I do wonder what would happen if Purdue Pharma appeal kills the releases. I know it is another circuit, but there is a ton of attention and change with respect to non debtor releases. If an appeal court rejects them (Purdue had more support in terms of votes than BSA) then I wonder if either the District Court or 3rd Circuit appeals puts the breaks on the BSA plan. I would expect plan supporters are probably hoping that either a ruling comes out backing Purdue Pharma OR the ruling is delayed until BSA has district approval and starts implementing their plan.

Their top paid employees total comp: SE = $326K Deputy SE = $331K Dir. Major Gifts = $191K Dir. Field Ser = $182K

Even parents of upper class ... $340 a year is a lot when you add in the various other costs including summer camp, etc. Asking for $50/year ... ok, they will sign up little Jimmy/Sally even if they are not super active. $340 ... all you are left with are the scouts where scouting is their ONLY activity. That will drop scouts to a small fraction of who is currently registered.

Petition · Prevent the Decimation of Membership of Local BSA unit in Crossroads of America · Change.org

Look at this cost structure. $340 per year in Crossroads of America. Seems a bit steep..

I'm not sure how other Troops handle this but we make it clear that nothing is official until we hear from National. We do not have anyone wear the patch until we have the kit from National. Now, in all my years, I haven't had a case where National rejected the Eagle app but it can happen.

We had an ASM who volunteered for years. He led one of the groups at Jambo and his out of pocket was over $5K per jambo. That included air travel & hotels in Dallas to prepare. At some point, they ask far too much from volunteers.

Reports from some on Facebook indicate they are almost at 14,500 and have set a limit of 15,000 scouts due to staffing limits.

Rumor is National Jamboree almost hit their limit 15,000 scouts.

I was told after bankruptcy is closed out. I wouldn't worry about planning for these yet. I heard of these second hand and the final implementation may be different. That said, change is coming. Costs, tools, program, leadership, councils, COs, camps, etc. could all be impacted. BSA, while having a decent recruiting year, considers themselves at war (per a slide displayed in bankruptcy). The insurance company lawyer asked about the war reference and BSA rep didn't really answer. I think BSA sees themselves at war with survival. They will not survive if changes are not made. Their debt burden and costs are simply too high. Another slide alluded to an opinion that the changes can not be democratic. So, councils will be forced to merge, programs will change. If I hear of rumors I'll post them here. Not to cause disruption but to get feedback from experienced scouters. Perhaps some in National could see the comments as an early indication of acceptance or at least areas of concern. I'm not taking any action at my unit level other than preparing my Committee that we may need to be flexible over the next couple of years. Not much else to do until we hear details.

I would be careful with the topics of requirement 6. In particular, I would avoid those discussions with other scouts present. Some families may not want their dirty laundry shared with the Troop. family_life.pdf (scouting.org)

After a few billion dollar mistakes it starts adding up to a lot of money.

Low chance ... even after they burn through their own cash, National BSA can definitely pull money from councils. Ch7 is a disaster.

To be clear, they really need to be cash flow positive. Those are expensive facilities that require significant funds to maintain plus are under a mountain of debt. If you take into account the full balance sheet including debt and depreciation I bet the outcome is closer to 0 to negative... but short term positive on the cash side. This is just a guess.

During bankruptcy, BSA was clear that Jamborees and HA bases are profitable. Cash flow is typically positive early from what I see. They take in high fees up front and expenses drain that down later.

Big week in the bankruptcy case. Feb 9th and 10th will be the appeals hearing. As mentioned, this will not be over zoom so we will have to wait to hear reporters take (unless any forum members attend).