Eagle1993

Note … after reading this 82 page document, there is no way our Troop will be willing to take on putting up our own summer camp. We were initially talking about this option, but it is a no go now. If our summer camp is cancelled or if there are not enough families interested, we will cancel this year. We talked with a lawyer friend about this issue… he said that if his kid ended up with Covid-19 from a camp, he would sue the Troop leaders, charter org, council and national and let the courts figure out who pays what. It will be tough enough for council camps to comply with all 82 pages … I know our Troop will not be able to without a council camp structure.

Many camps were waiting on guidelines to be published by ACA, the guidelines (82 pages) were just released yesterday (use link below and click on - Download Field Guide for Camp). I expect camps will be reviewing these and releasing their own guidelines. https://www.acacamps.org/resource-library/coronavirus/camp-business/camp-operations-guide-summer-2020

Unexplained is the key word there... 🙂

Philmont's Facebook page is pretty active since the May 15 update. - They are working on releasing the COVID Mitigation and Operation plan within 1 week (including mask requirements) - They were asked directly about New Mexico's requirement that youth summer programs are limited to "local geographic area only". Philmont's response "...The ranch management is working with state officials to determine our classification and what we'll be allowed to do."

June 1 seems really late. I don't understand how they have not already reviewed their plans with the state. I understand that there could be changes, but Philmont states "Philmont will be meeting with the NM Department of Health to review the Philmont COVID-19 mitigation and operating plan. We will obtain their suggestions and input and confirm that we can operate within state guidelines. " … so they do not even have confirmation that they can operate yet? People are spending a ton of money and time planning, I would think they would have already reviewed this with the state. I hope they already have the go ahead and just need to close out some details. "Participants who fall in the high-risk category (as defined by the CDC) should not attend Philmont this summer. If you are in this category you should stay home." CDC states the following are at high risk. Does this mean Philmont will prevent anyone in the group below, based on their health forms, from going out on a Trek? Are they going to stop anyone with diabetes or 65 and older? Are they really going to stop anyone with moderate asthma (so if they see you are going with an inhaler you are out)? I'm ok with this policy, but they need to make it clear if they plan to enforce this. Based on what we know now, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 are: People 65 years and older People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility People of all ages with underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, including: People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma People who have serious heart conditions People who are immunocompromised Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher) People with diabetes People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis People with liver disease

Philmont Scout Ranch Update: May 15th Philmont continues to forge ahead with a July 1 opening date. Philmont is monitoring to monitor the recommendations from the CDC, NM Governor Lujan Grisham, State and local health departments, and the American Camp Association. May 15th updates are below: As we prepare for opening on July 1, we know there are potential barriers such as spikes in new cases that could affect this opening plan. Any changes regarding the July 1 opening will be announced no later than June 1. Philmont will be meeting with the NM Department of Health to review the Philmont COVID-19 mitigation and operating plan. We will obtain their suggestions and input and confirm that we can operate within state guidelines. There will be changes to programs and itineraries. We will not be utilizing all backcountry camps. In support of social distancing requirements, elements of programming will be different. Examples include: no opening or closing campfires in base camp, church services, or confined activities such as mine tours. Other activities that involve enclosed spaces will be suspended or altered. We are still working through the more detailed portions of this planning. Every crew member attending Philmont should bring their own mask (face covering) and a pair of leather gloves. Each crew will be taking part in a conservation project during their trek. Many will also go rock climbing or spar pole climbing. All these activities require leather gloves which are difficult to sanitize between uses. Everyone bringing their own gloves will eliminate this sanitation issue. All crews that were arriving in June and have been cancelled should make sure they received and responded to the email that was sent to lead advisors and reservation contacts. It has specific information about transferring and cancellations. It is also posted at https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/ Participants who fall in the high-risk category (as defined by the CDC) should not attend Philmont this summer. If you are in this category you should stay home. The Philmont Covid-19 Mitigation and Operating Plan is being finalized and will be posted on the Philmont website within the next week. While we continue to plan and prepare for summer, Philmont will remain closed to the public through June 1st. We’d like to thank all crews that replied to the May 1 survey. Please know that our camping registrars are still working diligently to follow up with all remaining crews. We greatly appreciate the patience of all participants and staff for the 2020 Summer season. We wish you and your families good health as we all work to overcome the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and Deliver Wilderness Adventures that Last a Lifetime.

@Cburkhardt Does Summit offer a patrol cooking summer camp option? Our Troop has a history of patrol cooking summer camps and one year went to a summer camp that was dining hall based. The difference was huge and the scouts and scouters decided they never wanted to do a dining hall camp again. We know long term most camps are headed to dining hall, but if summit offered a patrol cooking option, it could be a great option.

At this point, it looks like it is in place until May 31. https://cv.nmhealth.org/2020/05/13/stay-at-home-order-extended/ WHAT REMAINS THE SAME: New Mexicans must remain home except for outings essential for health, safety and welfare, especially elderly and vulnerable individuals. If you must leave home, gatherings of more than five people remain prohibited and 6 feet of physical distance from others must be maintained. Large retailers like big-box stores and grocery stores will continue operating at 20 percent capacity as determined by fire code. Locations and services where high-intensity contact is unavoidable – such as gyms, salons and dine-in service at restaurants and bars – will remain temporarily closed. Limited in-person operations for those types of businesses could be included in the next modification of the public health order, as soon as early June, depending on New Mexico’s rate of COVID-19 transmission, testing capacity and other gating criteria. Other high-intensity contact services that must remain closed include indoor malls, massage and tattoo parlors, theaters, casinos. 14-day quarantine order remains in place for out-of-state airport arrivals. Vacation rentals prohibited to out-of-state residents. Visits to long-term care and other congregate care facilities remain restricted.

But New Mexico is stating local youth only … so the governor would have to make an acceptation for Philmont. They also have a 14 day quarantine for out of state arrivals at the airport. I would expect that would end by the May 31, but who knows. We have two crews going late July by train. Our June date at summer camp was just cancelled, so waiting to see what happens here. I hope it still happens for the scouts as any cancellation would mean some scouts will never have the opportunity again.

Any update from Philmont given the New Mexico extension of stay at home order (until May 31)? Is there any way Philmont can go on given the rules introduced here? https://cv.nmhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/NM-COVID-Guidance-for-Summer-Youth-Programs.pdf Summer Program Overview: E-learning or distance learning opportunities should be provided for all students when possible as an alternative to in person programs. In person summer programs and sports camps will be restricted to 5:1 child to adult ratios for children who live in the local geographic area only. Grab and Go meal sites for children will continue throughout the summer.

Has anyone gone to Summit for summer camp? Any thoughts on the experience?

All of the below assumes state health department & our council allows us to camp. The discussion we are having as a Troop is what level of social distancing we are able and willing to enforce during a summer camp. At this point, we are unwilling to enforce social distancing smaller than a patrol. If there is a need to enforce social distancing smaller than patrols, then camp will not work. Patrol level is difficult but may be achievable, but probably not at 100%. We talked about clear visual indicators of who is in what patrol and ensuring scouts in different patrols stay 6+ feet apart at all times. Tent buddies from same patrol and keep patrol tents/setups apart. Even this will be difficult to fully enforce during a full week, but could be a way to limit reduce/limit possible contacts. Troop level is nearly guaranteed if you have your own summer camp. If going to a council camp it will depend on the scouts & camp counselors. Our camp is fully patrol cooking, so we think it is mostly achievable given the info we have been provided … but again, not 100%. In the end, we are discussing as scouters what we are willing to enforce. We will discuss with the PLC to see what they view as achievable while still maintaining the summer camp experience. We can then go to the parents to get their thoughts/concerns. For those looking to keep social distancing at the individual level, camp will not be an option this year. You will have to accept that at minimum your son/daughter will come into contact (<6 feet) with at least 6-9 other scouts. I think after that level, it is really dependent on the Troop/camp and their practices/plan.

Camp Freeland Leslie just sent an update - June 21 is now their start - Patrol cooking only, they had planned a dining hall type experience this year as an option, that is cancelled. - Camp wide pig roast cancelled - Camp wide flag/fire ceremony cancelled - Family night/visitor day cancelled - Cloth facemasks will be provided to all campers - Personal bottle of hand sanitizer to all campers - Large bottles of hand santitizer across camp - Symptom screening setup - Shared equipment cleaning will follow CDC protocols - Disinfecting procedures for common areas to be followed. - Refund policy improving … allowing cancellations closer to camp.

I agree, but I'm also thinking about the leadership in the state. New Mexico's Governor is very aggressive. She is setting up roadblock around Gallup https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gallup-new-mexico-lockdown-sunday-governor-lujan-grisham/. I would not be surprised if she shuts down Philmont. Florida, on the other hand, well ..

I expect it will be a phased approach for most states. Groups of 10 or less would allow some patrol activities/camping. Groups of ~50 would allow Troop. I was much more bullish about summer camp one month ago. However, that assumed we would be a in a lot better shape now. One month ago, our state was predicted to see few new cases now and <<100 infections by June 1. Deaths were declining in mid April, but late April that switched and now daily deaths exceed our previous peak (same for USA). The latest models I see now show <<100 infections by August 1 … and that assumes we social distance all summer. https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america I think as a Troop I'll push for a mid August Troop lead summer camp if our current date falls through. Mixing scouts within a community is much less risky than mixing scouts from different regions. It won't be the full experience, but it may have to do this summer. I hope we will be able to do this as being locked inside all summer will be tough.

I know that is the current plan, but I would be shocked if it went through this summer. While the curve has flattened (we are now linear growth), we haven't driving cases down. I have a team in China (not Wuhan) but when I discussed with them the USA's response their biggest shock is the travel we allow between locations. That is a big way they limited the spread. I think governors will realize this more and more and put a stop to locations that attract out of state visitors. It kills me as I think there is a risk that some of these high adventure bases may be sold off in Bankruptcy. I also know it provides cash flow for BSA and many would lose out on a once in a lifetime experience. I just think there is no way New Mexico or Minnesota will allow this to proceed. Florida … perhaps and I have no idea about West Virginia.

I think you are going to need to figure this out until there is a vaccine or decide not to go camping. We are already talking as a Troop as to how to help reduce risk. Given that a vaccine may not be available for years, Troops that begin planning will do much better than those that either ignore the risk OR decide to stay inside until 2022+

Not with this..

Good point. I'm guessing the traditional bug juice will not fly this summer. Individual water bottles/drinks.

Per CDC: "...essential service providers, such as first responders, healthcare workers, transit workers, and other industries where a parent cannot stay home" So, basically, opening this up to kids of parents who cannot work at home.

Looking at my council, United Way is the top revenue source … hopefully that doesn't drop. Outside of that, FOS (I expect will drop), investments (will drop), product sales (will drop), camping (frozen), activities (frozen), special events (frozen) … 75% of their revenue is either frozen or will see substantial declines due to COVID-19 and the economy. I don't know their cash on hand but their cash flow will go negative this year without substantial cuts. I hope they don't simply take the easy way out and sell a camp or two. While I pushed back on immediately looking at council mergers as strong councils may tie themselves to high risk ones, I think COVID-19 and the resulting economy is a perfect storm that could permanently injure BSA if councils don't aggressively act together. Hopefully the national BSA bankruptcy will provide the abuse protection and councils can evaluate mergers based upon ongoing operations vs risk.

Not a fan of the virtual camps, though I appreciate the effort. Our summers are fairly short here and my kids will have had enough of virtual learning by June (over 3 months of school). I have no desire for them to be watching more videos during summer. If camps cannot occur, I'll punt on the virtual programing and have them play outside without the structure of video guidance. If camp is cancelled, I hope our Troop is allowed to put on our own. If not, I think we will simply recommend some local parks for families to travel to and restart virtual programming (if needed) in the fall.

Looks like Sea Base is planning to be active in June. Given this, I expect many councils will continue to plan to hold summer camps, unless states prevent them. I was thinking there would be a lot of cancellations if HA bases close, but as they are remaining open, it will encourage councils to also find a way forward. In the end, it will really depend on the CDC and state health departments … they will have the final say.

Philmont update … June Treks cancelled, but July is a go. https://www.philmontscoutranch.org/coronavirus/

From info I could find. There was a FB post where people listed councils that cancelled camps. I tried to doublecheck their FB pages or websites and below are the ones I was able to confirm. I expect may more will be coming and I didn't list the many that have cancelled camps in June (hoping that July dates hold). Cancelled (BSA): Allegheny Highlands Council (New York) Blackhawk Area Council (Illinois) Minsi Trails Council (Pennsylvania) Nevada Area Council (Nevada) Sam Houston Council (Texas) Sequoia Council (California) Southeast Louisiana Council (Louisiana) Transatlantic Council (Europe)