Eagle1993

As the BSA lawsuit grows, I fear the fall out with other organizations' youth outreach programs. Not sure if this was already mentioned, but NMRA is dropping its youth outreach programs. My son has loved and continues to love model railroading. There were locally sponsored youth groups plus fun events at our local model railroading convention (kits to build for youth, junior engineering program). That is now all ending due to litigation risk. If the BSA, with all of their overhead in terms of background checks & training cannot prevent lawsuits and bankruptcy, what youth serving organization can? Is it just a matter of time as lawyers work through the whales to find small and smaller prey until the suck the blood out of all youth serving organizations? So, my son will now see the youth created model railroad layouts go up for sale/donation. Their hard work will no longer be displayed and a bit of joy out of their lives will be squashed due to litigation risk. I guess at least they are safer as more and more opportunities for fun/engaging off screen activities are removed. https://nmra.org/nmra-risk-persons-policy "In society today we see lawsuits against various individuals who are in positions of trust who abuse that trust and abuse the vulnerable among us. These have been teachers, clergy, and volunteers in other organizations. In November 2019 the Boy Scouts had to mortgage Philmont Scout Ranch for $446 million dollars for payment of abuse judgments and settlements, and most recently the Boy Scouts declared bankruptcy. This happened despite the Boy Scouts’ comprehensive – and expensive – program used to screen and prohibit abuse. The NMRA is not equipped to enforce the necessary protection policies for our members to follow. We do not have the money for the insurance or the company that provides training, or the staff to make sure the regions and divisions are complying with the necessary requirements to prevent abuse. Simply put, one instance of an abuse lawsuit by someone against the NMRA would bankrupt the NMRA and the organization would cease to exist. Statistically, based on the population at-large, we know that some of our members would abuse an at-risk person. NMRA insurance does not provide coverage for any accusations of abuse."

I'm Scoutmaster of my Troop, Committee Chair & Den Leader in a Pack. I find the Troop situation 1000% easier with Covid than the Pack. Very few scouts (or leaders or parents) are motivated by the advancements in Cub Scouts (at least based on what I have seen). So, I think they struggle with the point of remote Pack/Den meetings. The best Pack/Den meetings were active (songs, skits, games, etc.). Camping, hiking, PWD would then round out the year. We had very little enthusiasm for zoom meetings with Cub Scouts. We cancelled 3 campouts, several hikes and other activities … and now we are supposed to go and ask for higher fees this fall … UGH! On top of that, our council cash situation is bad and they are pushing FOS & fundraisers. I have a hard time selling Cub Scouts at this point in time. We will do our best, but I expect a rough fall/spring. My Troop has faired better, though it has been rough. We were able to go to Summer Camp, several are headed to BWCA and we have held 4 Eagle Scout projects since the outbreak. Remote MB clinics are helpful and we can keep the scouts engaged. Plus, you don't need to sell scouting to the youth … they know what scouts will be when we return to normal (perhaps some risk with recent crossovers). I know council is pushing us to keep 75% of our existing scouts then add recruitment on top. My goal is to prevent our Pack from folding.

The other option BSA is to fight in court for several years. The Archdiocese of Milwaukee did that (4 years) and was able to settle 330 cases for $21M ($64K per). 575 actually filed (so that $36.5K per filing). For BSA that would be close to $365M for 10,000. Sell of the paintings and cut staff … they can get there. FYI ... the attorney against MKE Archdiocese was the same one suing BSA. So he will know that organizations can and are willing to fight back hard. Given that, hopefully he is more reasonable in settlement talks. https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-archdiocese-settlement-20150805-story.html

Just returned from Camp Freeland Leslie. They kept our Troop together for the entire week as went through the weekly schedule (no mixing with other Troops/campers). Scouts had 6 - 7 merit badges with 2-3 complete on average (so a lot of partials this year … but who cares). We had 1 visit to shooting sports (a 2nd was cancelled due to storms). 3 trips to the water front. Scouts were able to eat their fair share of ice cream. Plus, CFL is a patrol cooking camp, so not much changed there. The week was hot and rainy, but the scouts had fun. Overall, a great experience given the circumstances. It will be even better if my test comes back negative (I plan to take a Covid-19 test later today and should get the results back in 3 to 4 … so hopefully that goes well). I signed my son up for testing tomorrow. Very minor symptoms that is typical of any time I go to camp (likely allergies). I doubt I have it, but National Guard is offering tests in my area and encouraging proactive testing so I thought I should go ahead.

When I heard 10,000 plaintiffs I begin to wonder if this goes Chapter 7 vs 11. If Chapter 11 results in a settlement that is too low, I wonder if the judge is able to push this into Chapter 7 and liquidate everything. I hope not … but that number was large and scary. Perhaps that was the point to push for a large settlement.

I wonder if it is already for sale … 😟

I've seen this comment repeated by many (especially on Facebook). You may be talking about the Antifa protestors, which could be true, but this does not apply to the Black lives protestors. Who is ignoring the other homicides? Many of the protestors are from inner city churches who also march after murders. Others run or work with non profits who are working with youth in the inner city (from Boys & Girls clubs to many others). I question people who think that few in the community are not attempting to help. I have personally donated time and money to organizations in the inner city near me and see that people are not ignoring the problem. I think anyone in this thread who are against the police reform and would rather help community organizations helping to reduce civilian-on-civilian homicides could donate their time/money to many worthy causes. You could also help a Troop or Cub Scout pack start up (or Trail Life unit). For example, here is a list of organizations out of Chicago. Most cities have many different organizations working on violence prevention. https://abc7chicago.com/stop-the-violence-resources-chicago-in/3894299/ I would ask … when you look at this list, how could you claim that they are "... ignoring the several orders of magnitude greater rates of civilian-on-civilian homicides...". Most if not all of those organizations' primary focus has nothing to do with police violence. When I see this type of comment, it is as ignorant as saying all NASCAR fans are racist since a noose was found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

Did they just put up the Lenin status, or are you talking about this one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Lenin_(Seattle)) that was put up in the mid 1990s. I had to look it up, but it appears CHOP stands for Capital Hill Occupied Protest. Not sure if it also means CHOP heads of their enemies and how many heads they have actually literally chopped off … you may have more info about that. I have no idea why Seattle doesn't shut that down … seems like it has gotten completely out of control.

Thanks for finding the additional info. This circulated around Scouts L and the initial poster indicated "young scouters" … I guess 29 is young to some

This letter, written by some young scouters, was sent to BSA national committee. Letter was dated June 11. Many of the points brought up in the letter was included in the BSA statement, but not all. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zi8cnUESF5vKBjv91l5FVunzRYmkuCGO/view

I expect you are correct … and I doubt the BSA has enough money or will to fight another lawsuit. In reality, I don't think it would have any day to day impact on the Sea Scouts, so I doubt BSA would fight hard. You could probably send them a strongly worded letter on a law firm letter head and see the change later this year.

What additional actions would you have BSA take to help eliminate discrimination? Are there other best practices that they should follow and are not?

Male leadership is never required, you can have 2 female leaders for an all boy Troop. The only gender requirement we face is the fact that BSA mandates a female leader is present if girl participant is present. LGBTQ leaders are not required. Simply look at the application. If they selected "boy" then 2 adult leaders any gender. If they selected "girl" then at least 1 adult leader must be female. Sexual orientation of youth participants does not play a factor in the gender requirements for adult leader.

I expect in many areas, school will utilize virtual learning full or part time through the fall and possibly spring. It is very possible the cases continue to grow and restrictions could return this fall and winter. I'm looking at summer camp as simply an oasis in the middle of the pandemic. Get the scouts out of the house and provide them an opportunity to do some scouting with their patrol & Troop. Yes, it is not traditional summer camp, but we haven't camped since Klondike (February) and due to local rules would struggle to do so this summer. We've lost out on multiple backpacking overnights, a couple of camp outs, a white water kayaking trip and 2 crews to Philmont. The fall camporee was already cancelled and I have a bad feeling about Klondike. We attempted to setup other camping trips but state parks are not an option. In addition to summer camp, we are working to quickly get an short trip to BWCA to make up for Philmont. My ASM was down on our summer camp plans as well, but I emphasized that he should look at what is being offered vs what is not. This maybe one of our last opportunity to camp until next spring or summer.

I'm not arguing for removing the statue in this case, but toppling statues is a long known symbolic move to show the end of an era. I think there is a difference between statues in a museum (focus on art, history) vs out in public parks and squares (which adds sense of honor and reverence). I'm not sure how many Hitler, Saddam Hussain or Stalin statues are or should be floating around in public parks. You can find Nazi flags in museums but I haven't seen many on display in public parks. For now, it seems like a good idea to take it out of public to protect it (otherwise it could be vandalized/destroyed). Longer term I think it should return to a public place as I haven't seen anything about B-P that would mean we shouldn't continue to honor his life.

Also, suits against councils are held off until November 16. However, the councils will have to share financial details with BSA to share with creditors if they want the stay. https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/san-antonio/news/2020/06/09/suits-remain-halted--mediation-eyed-in-boy-scouts-bankruptcy

Mediator team now set. Kevin J. Carey … Timothy Gallagher and Paul Finn on the mediation panel, with Judge Silverstein ruling out one of the Boy Scouts' choices to serve on the panel as a group of insurers raised concerns about potential conflicts of interest involving his selection. "What we are looking for is true neutrality," Judge Silverstein said. ... The Boy Scouts have 275 sex abuse claims pending against the parent organization as well as more than 1,000 additional claims against nondebtor local scouting councils and individual charter organizations that are in various stages of review, according to the Boy Scouts' first-day declaration Read more at: https://www.law360.com/articles/1280789/ex-del-bankruptcy-judge-to-join-boy-scouts-mediation-panel?copied=1

We are headed there as well (Week 3) and have 22 scouts attending. While I prefer their standard program, its great they are finding a way to get scouts out of the house, have aquatics and shooting sports options while reducing some Covid-19 risks. We held a meeting with our scouts and so far no one has changed their plans to attend. I expect this will be the year of partial MBs but almost anything will be an improvement over looking at more zoom call video feeds. https://threefirescouncil.org/programs-2/camp-freeland-leslie/

Bankruptcy courts can see through these maneuvers if they are simply meant to protect assets from bankruptcy. https://www.wisn.com/article/court-milwaukee-archdiocese-cemetery-trust-fund-not-off-limits-in-bankruptcy-case/6325780#

I would agree, just found it interesting that BSA's prior arguments in courts are being used against them in this case. I think this is why mediation has a chance. The plaintiff lawyers realize they will probably lose this argument, so their alternate option will be going state by state and suing every individual council. If they can settle all at once, it could be a higher return on their investment. Now, that assumes councils pony up and the BSA can offer a large payout. If BSA's offer is too small, then the lawyers will pull as many assets as possible from National and then go state by state over the next 5 - 10 years suing councils into bankruptcy.

Agreed, but an open Philmont would have generated positive cash for BSA. Now that cash flow is gone, I'm concerned they will access debt against it or worse case sell it. Hopefully not.

Given that Philmont is now the only closed BSA HA base, and BSA needs cash immediately, do they sell it off this fall? I hope not … but I'm' starting to get a bit concerned thinking that 2019 may have been the last year of Philmont Treks. Edit: Or perhaps, my optimistic thought, they can just exercise lines of credit against Philmont to get cash.

Not surprised given the rules in New Mexico. Two crews were going from our Troop. Probably mixed feelings as several were worried about travel.

He also did the BP Oil Spill and many, many others. I would think he would be a good choice and has a lot of experience setting up a process on how to determine what each individual gets out of the victims fund. He also helped in the NY Archdiocese Sex Abuse fund … https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/65-n-y-archdiocese-sex-abuse-vics-apply-compensation-article-1.2917953

My question is how will the BSA generate enough cash to pay without selling off some or all HA bases? Settlements in the Catholic Church for sex abuse range from $300K per plaintiff to >$1M per. Given est. 4,000 plaintiffs that would be at least $1.2B … before any other costs (resolving other debts, etc.). Where is the BSA going to get at least $1.2B? Expect the lawyers to push for far more. I would be extremely sad but I don't see many paths that avoid selling off High Adventure bases (all of them). Perhaps they do sell Philmont to an independent trust as mentioned above who provides full market value to the victims fund. Then that trust charges trek fees to help pay down the debt generated + costs + improvements. Similar questions for other HA bases.