Eagle1993

Each person, on average, will get $6K out of this settlement. I think for most victims that require therapy, $6K is nothing. I also don't think psychologists change their hourly rate based upon BSA settlement. Nor do I think the need of therapy varies based upon the settlement amount. I'm a bit confused as your statements here ...

Interesting that they do not yet have the $300M from local councils. "The Debtors are committed to ensuring that the aggregate value of the Local Council Settlement Contribution is not less than $300,000,000, exclusive of insurance rights proposed to be contributed to the Settlement Trust. The Debtors intend to request the voluntary commitments of Local Councils to make their respective contributions, which contributions shall be set forth in commitment agreements executed by each Local Council. By no later than June 1, 2021, the Debtors shall file a report with the Bankruptcy Court concerning the status of the Debtors’ efforts to obtain contribution commitments from the Local Councils. Such status report shall contain information concerning the form of contributions by the Local Councils (i.e., cash, real property, or other assets) and the timing of such contributions. In addition, the status report will set forth any required amendments the Debtors may propose to the Plan to facilitate the Local Council Settlement Contribution."

That is the way I read it. Someone mentioned that BSA needs to go to war. Well, BSA just declared war on the sex abuse claimants. So, I guess those who wanted war will get one. Though, to be fair, I think they wanted a PR war about the positive aspects of scouting. Unfortunately, I think we will have a different war on our hands.

The BSA wants this two ways. Financially ... councils are completely independent. Their funding sources and assets have no tie to National. Legally ... councils are completely dependent. They have 0 liability with respect to sexual abuse. All liability is National BSA. That is a tough sell.

How? 26 * 52 * 150 = $202,800

This is terrible. The national narrative is that BSA is asking sex abuse victims to settle for $6k each (even with the reduced number of victims). The TCC also says this is DOA. A Sex abuse survivor is quoted saying BSAs payment won’t even cover their cost of therapists. TCC states the land is worthless as the leases are more than they oil revenue. Yes, I hope we keep everything of true value to scouting, but I’m very concerned by attempting to save Summit we lose everything.

Agreed. BSA better be ready to survive for the long haul while in bankruptcy court if this is their best offer. This is no where near enough to get an early settlement.

Same here. My son's friend and his sister are going to a local private school this year. $50K between the two of them. They plan to go back to public schools this fall when they are open.

Zach Galifianakis - Eagle Scout - Hangover Star - Between Two Ferns ...

The BSA is doing much of this. If you look, the councils are out there highlighting various activities to local media. Food drives, Eagle Scout Projects, etc.... still hit local media. Nationally, BSA did a big successful event for the first group of female Eagle Scouts. Now ... what else? Let's say a National BSA leader goes out to media to talk about the value of BSA? You know the story will be about 95,000 victims, bankruptcy and Girl Scouts suing over the branding issue. National BSA = bankrupt, Local BSA = Little Johnny's PWD car and Beth's Eagle Scout project. I expect BSA knows this now. Given this, BSA is keeping the positive messaging to advocates (such as local councils) which is what they should do. I expect they have nearly $0 allocated for a national PR campaign (other than finding abuse victims). National BSA has already stated they are rebranding post bankruptcy. Their #1 job is getting out of bankruptcy quickly so the CAN kick off the rebranding & resulting PR campaign. Trying to spread a National positive message when we have 50 times the number of possible victims than all of the Catholic Church lawsuits is a fools errand. Finally, I do not disagree with you that BSA fails at PR. I have doubts if BSA can really rebrand successfully. We need much younger men/women, including people of color, to represent us nationally. Trotting out our old white men (as good as they are) to sell scouting to youth will fail as it has failed over the last two decades. How about our next representatives actually have active Twitter and Instagram accounts with more followers than mine? Where is our Bear Grylls?

How many of those were accused of sexually abusing 95,000 of their youth customers and in currently in bankruptcy? What is BSAs argument? It wasn’t 95,000 it was only 55,000? Penn State was nearly destroyed over 20 claims. The Catholic Church has been roasted over 1,800. I’d love to see the PR campaign on this one. Our top funder at my council is the UnitedWay. Do you think the UnitedWay or other big donors will back an organization who is fighting 10,000+ claims of sexual abuse over several years? They are barely hanging in as it is now. Also, FYI... BSA did spend a ton of $ on PR. The PR campaign was extremely successful. It generated 95,000 claims. Good luck getting the bankruptcy judge allowing a dollar more. BSA has two options. Prepare for a very long bankruptcy fight (think on the order of 5-10 years) or surrender immediately just short of liquidation while protecting councils and COs. BSA has been clear they cannot afford a long bankruptcy battle so their only choice is surrender and start the rebuild after. Perhaps that is just a bluff. We will find out soon.

For those abused, I have nothing but sympathy and I think everyone involved in scouting would (or should) fell nothing but sorrow for what they went through. I honestly don't blame anyone who was abused for seeking justice in this bankruptcy. I expect I would want to do that. That said, I don't think civil litigation is the best way to handle improving the current situation. Identifying what should be required, passing laws and punishing groups that go afoul would probably have a better result. Ideas such as a national volunteer database (similar to sex offender), mandatory reporting, mandatory background checks, etc. Those give clear cut rules for organizations to implement. Right now, organizations are faced with a guessing game + insurance companies telling them what to do. In some cases, they simply give up. In others, they may make modifications that don't really reduce risk and only damage the program. While I am concerned about the BSA, I am more concerned that we are headed into a wild west of youth protection. BSA's bankruptcy is the start. There will be many more youth organizations going down over the next decade and what comes out may not be pretty. Lets hope the lawmakers spend some time providing rules for youth organizations to follow (and then be protected by) instead of just changing SOLs.

Our Cubmaster was thrown out of a liberal organization due to her association with the brown shirts of America (BSA). This was 2 years ago.

That is the $64,000 $3,000,000,000 question.

BSA should make sure their offer is one the claimants cannot refuse. Essentially, the lawyers on the other side would not see significantly more $ if they pursue liquidation. Lets say BSA decides they can survive without 2 or 3 of our 4 HA bases. They should include those assets in the settlement regardless of the judge's near term decision. Why? Because that decision can be appealed and those appeals can take YEARS. One example ... Milwaukee archdiocese cemetery trust fund (which was litigated against Jeff Anderson). The archdiocese argued that the trust fund is off limits in their bankruptcy as it was specifically created in 2007/2008 to cover the cost of Catholic cemeteries. Jan 4 2011 the archdiocese files for bankruptcy. The creditors committee claims the transfer of $ to the fund was illegal. June 28 2011 the Cemetery trust fund files claims to keep the $55M of their assets out of the settlement. May 25 2012 The creditor committee asks the judge for summary judgement to reject that claim. Jan 17 2013 the judge agrees with the creditors committee July 29 2013 the US District court reverses the bankruptcy court ruling March 9 2015 the court of appeals agrees and reverses the bankruptcy court It was then appealed to the supreme court who refused to hear this. That was a fight over $55M of assets. It took 4+ years and went through multiple courts of appeals. If BSA wants this settled quickly, they will need to give up nearly everything but their trademarks. Otherwise, they need a plan to last 4+ years of legal battles. There is no in-between and their leadership team must make that call now.

I expect zero chance this happens. - If you are in the insurance business and threaten bankruptcy when you are asked to pay out claims, what is the value of your product? Every insurance competitor would highlight that when working with businesses. - Most of these companies are publicly traded. I could imagine the stock price impact if their lawyers are saying they plan to go bankrupt if they have to pay a settlement. - The judge doesn't care if the insurance company has to go bankrupt. I don't know of any judge that would base a settlement on if the payer has the ability to pay. Settlements are based on the law and contracts. The judge would probably say fine, go bankrupt. You owe $5B. Now, I do expect the insurance companies to fight over the next several years to get as much leverage to lower their overall payout. Hopefully BSA can stay out of that fight and protracted legal fight. Kosnoff is fighting for council assets as he wants National, Council, Insurance and possibly CO assets. He wants the biggest pot of $ possible and likely believes liquidation of BSA may be the best way to get there.

For us, Covid is having a much bigger impact than the bankruptcy. That said, I do hope the bankruptcy goes away before fall recruiting. BSA/Councils shouldn't get involved. Let's look at it from Top down. How much can BSA really provide without liquidating. Let's say National sells all land, HA bases, artwork & investments and can create a $1B victims fund. Lets say the councils pitch in $2B for a total fund of $3B. The average payout by the Catholic church has been over $700K per victim. So, with a $3B fund, BSA can afford to pay 4,285 victims. Let's say insurance funds help cover some of this, so perhaps we can double the amount of claims we could cover to 8,500 or so. There are 95,000 claims. BSA's financial situation is not changed if it is 95,000, 50,000, 25,000, 15,000 or even 10,000 claims. They would need to see 85,000+ claims dropped before they could even consider reducing the victims fund. BSA needs to assume there will be more than 10,000 claims and simply focus on negotiating the settlement amount. That negotiation will be considered by the plaintiff team and basically they will have to decide if its worth fighting it further in court. The real financial impact will be the insurance companies. Lets say they need to pay out 350,000 per claim. They will care if its 10,000 or 95,000 ($3.5B to $33.3B). They are not going bankrupt (at least yet) and this will also be a precedent for other companies/organizations they insure. I expect insurance companies will not care if fighting this in court for 5 - 10 years will force BSA to liquidate. BSA needs to stay out of this, exit bankruptcy by making their best offer and let the insurance companies figure out if they will pay $30B or $3B over the next decade.

Correct, except the fitness requirements are in series. So, you cannot count the same 30 days/4 weeks of fitness for T - 2nd - 1st. The fitness is really the primary reason you can't go from cross over to 1st class in 3 - 4 weeks. I actually think its fine to allow work on the ranks in parallel. The vast majority of my scouts take 2 - 3 years to get to first class anyway (only scouts with a focus on rank can come close to the 12 - 18 months to 1st class). If this was done in series, only the truly rank focused scouts would advance at all.

Not counting how you actually squeeze in all of the outings, campouts, tracking for personal mgt and fitness. These are the time limits I am aware of. 30 Days - Tenderfoot Fitness 4 Weeks - 2nd Class Fitness 4 Weeks- 1st Class Fitness 4 Months - 1st to Star 6 Months - Star to Life 6 Months - Life to Eagle

Probably the best & only way to really consider this story. I was 15yo when I went for my EBOR and faced a crotchety old scouter who thought you should be at least 16 and preferably 17 to earn Eagle. He quizzed me on a number of knots & lashings until he relented. I think I'm becoming that crotchety old scouter.

100% agree ... anyone with a claim should be asked to provide information supporting their claim. In addition to false claims, it will be important, regardless of the final amount, to compensate claimants fairly and proportionally. Not all claims will be equal and the payouts to individuals should vary based upon the impact, timing, frequency, etc. of abuse. If someone cannot answer basic questions, they should not be able to file a claim. That said, BSA should stay out of this. They would lose on PR & financials if they get involved.

While I am pretty open to earning Eagle Scout early, I still struggle with the 12 year olds. The good news is that it appears he plans to stick with scouts, vs a 12 year old who would earn Eagle and drop. I don't believe I have met a scout, who at 12, would have the leadership I expect of an Eagle Scout ... but I guess some may be out there. https://yubanet.com/regional/local-boy-becomes-one-of-the-youngest-to-earn-boy-scouts-eagle-scout-rank/ The Eagle Scout project seemed to be a bit on the smaller side (vs what I have seen/approved in my Troop). I know the article says buying & installing benches, but hopefully there was a fair number of youth/adults to lead and some more aspects to the project. It almost looks like the benches cost $3K each ... He installed two park benches along the Wolf Creek Trail in Grass Valley. In addition – with the help of generous, local donors – he fundraised $3000 to purchase and install a third bench.

This is a good move. BSA should push the court to close out the bankruptcy & their portion of the funds ASAP. Let the insurance companies & coalition lawyers fight out the final list over time.

"redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council." It looks like the CO cannot just go off on their own and they need to get agreement with the council. Are any CO's pushing back at simply writing checks to close out their accounts? I wonder how these conversations go.

I haven't seen that yet, but the push on recharter is much less than prior years. We are late, as always, but have seen almost no emails/calls/etc. (We change our COR annually which causes all sorts of issues during charter.) Technically the assets must be used for scouting (if raised for scouting). See below. Rules_Regulations_Sept20 (netdna-ssl.com) Council or Unit Assets Upon Dissolution Consistent with the Bylaws, in the event of the dissolution of a council or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the Executive Committee may, at its option, authorize the National Council to assume charge of the affairs of the council and continue operation pending reorganization or re-establishment of the council or wind up the business of the council. All funds and property in the possession or control of such council must be applied to the payment of the council’s obligations. Any surplus funds or property may thereafter be administered as deemed to be in the best interest of Scouting. In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, unit funds and assets must be used to first satisfy any outstanding unit obligations. Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. Any assets obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council. Any property or funds acquired by the National Council upon the dissolution of a Scouting unit or local council will be administered so as to make effective, asfar as possible, the intentions and wishes of the donors.