Eagle1993

Our unit went from public school to PTO to friends of to fraternal organization over the last 20 years due to various concerns. The school prevents us from recruiting (they even took our yard signs from a public right of way and threw them out). I expect the fraternal order will end the CO soon (once their leadership evaluates the risk vs return). What is left? We have no organization that will be willing to sign even a "we provide meeting space" document? BSA better be ready with an option of no CO charters ....

Why is this youth protection? They are mixing up "integrity of program" with "youth protection". So if a Scoutmaster brings his Scouts BSA daughter to a Boy Scouts BSA Troop meeting, then that is a YPT violation? OA election ... so how does a girl Troop hold an OA election if there is no girl youth in OA? A boy cannot go to their meeting? So no youth OA can be present at a Girl Troop meeting election until there is a girl in OA and then she will be the only one allowed at future Girl Troop elections? No coed buddies .. fine, file that under YPT. The other half of this is crazy to put under YPT.

I would love to see the requirements. If they are reading our comments, I would highly recommend not making it Eagle required out of the gate. Release it and let MBCs and Scouts ramp up. Adjust requirements after a few years. If it really adds value, then make it required (but I would ask to relook at ALL required MBs before you do that). I'll hold off judgement on the actual requirements until I see them. I do have a lot of questions. If you allow too much flexibility, would you allow someone like my Uncle be a MBC who believes blacks should not marry whites? Would the badge be pointless? Or, if it is too inflexible, how do you deal with different belief systems that are considered acceptable within today's society? Also, how do you adjust as society changes? For example, my uncle's view against interracial marriage is not considered accepted today, but it would be considered the majority view in the in 1950s and 60s. My grandmother would refuse to eat in a restaurant with a black man present ... but my sister is married to a black man and has interracial children. Clearly society changes in these areas and in general, we trend to more acceptance of diversity and inclusion, but there are always controversial areas. These are very tough topics for adults, let alone 11 year olds attempting to earn Eagle by 12.

There are some that read it. This site has been mentioned in the past by Surbaugh (not in a positive light). I believe Richard Bourlon reviews content and he has responded to various topics. While many on the site may not agree with all of his responses, I think its great that he pops in from time to time. I would welcome other National leaders. I'm not sure if anyone involved in the DE&I MB look at this site, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. They should look at scouter.com and the FaceBook page comments from scouters. That doesn't mean they should be paralyzed by the comments nor never proceed with controversial changes. They should use the feedback to get a better idea of lay of the land that may get filtered by professionals.

The real best way is to look at those 11,000 - 13,000 claims and see where a policy difference could have prevented the issue. Essentially, find common root causes and see if any are systemic then look at possible policy changes. I think I have speculated that perhaps greater oversight to ensure COs are doing their job ... but I don't know if that is a systemic root cause of the abuse that is currently occurring. Perhaps it is more transparency to share with the volunteers incidents and how to avoid them. I expect there are some changes that could come in that would not negatively impact the program and could help. Others could either not reduce risk or negatively impact the program. We need a strong group of scout leaders who understand the program to review proposals from child abuse risk management experts to come up with recommendations. If that occurs, I think we could be safer without negative impacts. If proposals just come from risk managers, we will either not see a risk reduction or see the program suffer.

Agreed. I do think there is a chance that the non monetary changes could have negative consequences. They only real way to avoid one on one is adults must be with an adult buddy at all times. Im not advocating for this, just indicating some possible non monetary impacts of bankruptcy.

This is pretty funny ... sad ... but funny. Dark humor my friend...

This is what I see happening; however, National has been clear. If this takes until fall they will go into liquidation. If they are being honest (I don’t think they are) and I expect 0% chance the bankruptcy is done by fall, Eagle Scout rank will no longer be owned by BSA. It will be sold along with all National assets. Perhaps during liquidation the GSUSA will be given Eagle Scout trademark as part of the settlement. Who knows. I expect the most likely outcome is a 3 - 4 year settlement battle. Cases may spin off about HA camps, LC individual assets/camps. CO property and assets. National will find some sort of income stream to live in bankruptcy for half a decade. Perhaps by charging councils very large fees so they help fund the legal battle. Councils could then end up selling camps just to fund the bankruptcy lawyers. We will survive but the news and financial aspects of scouting will be about bankruptcy. As long as my unit has a local summer camp to go to and parents who volunteer we will be ok.

My council also does not have a summer camp. They should, but saved Cub Scout camps and sold off their summer camp.

I question that in this case. If the claimants continue to vote against the offer they can essentially force the BSA to part with core assets. They only way out is the judge enforcing a cram down but when has that every happened with a sexual abuse bankruptcy?

I’ve never heard this before. What law enforcers this?

True ... and I expect it should be better. But as mentioned previously individuals youth may not report until their 30s or 40s. So if the assault occurred on a 12 yo and in 1998 they would likely report it until 2020 on the early side. I believe that would be part of the argument to not overestimate the reduction. I still think YPT helped.

I tend to agree. That said, go to summer camp. Go to Philmont, if you can, this summer. Enjoy it now as there is no guarantee they will be there next summer.

I've been seeing more panic parents pushing Eagle recently ... I wonder if this is in their mind as well.

For me, we are at too many what ifs to really plan. My primary concerns are: - Philmont ... I have 2 crews going ... will that happen and is their money safe? - Summary Camp ... will my camp be pulled by this summer and are our deposits safe. I think, for now, both are safe for this summer so we move on. The summer of 2022, on the other hand ....

The only specific was releasing the names of everyone on the volunteer ban list. I took a look at other settlements and a couple of areas we may see changes (just a guess): So, imagine opening up scouting.org ... there may be a big button that states report abuse. The other areas I have seen is requirements for 0 tolerance policies. If a youth or adult violates any aspect of YPT and its confirmed, they are out, banned and don't be surprised if made public. The third is more public openness about policies and violations that have been reported. These are some of the non monetary changes I have seen in lawsuits.

Saturday all day events hits us hard. Overtime for custodian staff. The day of the week meeting cost isn't bad ... PWD alone is $500+ for room rental.

Nope. Just a check or cash. These are meeting rooms anyone in our village can reserve online. It costs us about $4,000 per year between the Pack and Troop. Our CO does not have a building.

Where we meet today. We don't meet at our CO. We pay for meeting space at libraries and public rental locations that are open to all groups.

No.

I've decided to stop FOS or any fundraising that helps my council. They have over 200 claims. I expect most of my funds will go to a bankruptcy settlement. I will give them the funds I typically provide post bankruptcy settlement. I'm going to recommend my Troop and Pack take a similar plan ... save your contributions and then provide post settlement.

The only message ... this bankruptcy only effects national. It has no impact on the councils, units or COs. A bit of info trickled out that we may pay into a fund but no real serious discussion of impacts. Given that nearly every council said the same thing (you can see this in media feeds) I expect that was directed by National. They may have been gaming this out, but they have not prepared us for any impact.

What they made clear is they expect 100% of assets that are non restricted. LCs haven’t shared that data so they don’t know if $300M is enough. If a camp is restricted, prove it. If you can’t they want it. Otherwise, face 10,000+ lawsuits.

A few more points. TCC clarified that there are 101K claims. They said 83K were unique. They also clarified they believe some may be fraud most most are true. They also said the data issues on many claims need to be cleaned up and have examples. (One claim didn’t list the council. When they looked they found the individual put the council name next to the Troop number in the Troop field.). Again, they think there are some false claims bust my takeaway is they believe most are real. TCC’s goal is maximum payout. They do not care if BSA cannot function post bankruptcy. They also cannot force liquidation. Their belief is that there will be no”yes” vote unless they have at least the liquidation value of BSA. If BSA fights hard, this could take years and involve thousands of lawsuits. Essential the message is surrender or face legal destruction. Give up every National and local asset (camp) that you cannot prove is encumbered. I expect most BSA camps will be lost... especially those that have any real value. TCC believes YPT is weak as there are a ton of claims post YPT. They are demanding changes. Will BSA survive? It will likely be up to volunteers putting on unit level activities at non BSA camps. It will also depend on the YPT changes.... I think it will survive but be nothing like the BSA I knew.

News starting to hit local councils. That was fast. North Carolina Boy Scouts accused of underpaying abuse survivors (wxii12.com)