Eagle1993

My guess is that we have so many board members that the individual typing out their contact information got carpal tunnel and filed for workman's comp. Kidding aside, I wonder if the real reason they don't list their email addresses is because they don't take the role that seriously and/or they don't have any real power. They remind me of the GE board. One new board member once asked “What is the role of a GE board member?” An older director volunteered: “Applause.” I think a much smaller board is needed so they feel the responsibility of the position. Being 1 of 72 makes it easy to point to others or feel almost no ownership of the outcome. Being 1 of 8 or 12 would make that each board member role 6 to 9 times more powerful. That is actually good as it would also mean they would also feel the responsibility of their decisions and perhaps we can get a board with real ownership of the BSA. Perhaps then, we could see their names & contact info.

I thought the BSA lawyer said they would follow up on status (perhaps a plan) this week. Any updates? The disclosure hearing is approaching (September 21). What is the drop dead date for BSA to file and updated Disclosure statement & Plan to hit that timeline?

Council Impacts BSA will leave Ch 11 in major debt. Councils will leave with smaller endowments, debt and less camp properties. We have already seen a change of regions/areas within the National org. I expect 2022 will kick off a start of council consolidation discussions. I would not be surprised that the number of councils we have will be cut in half in 2-3 years. I think this is highly likely (perhaps not 50%, but major consolidation). Program impacts Given the collapse of Venturing, what comes next from 18 - 25 year olds. Given concerns about youth on youth ... will BSA continue having 17 year olds and 11 year olds in the same program? I think it would be great if BSA relooks at something new to do with 18 - 25 year olds to keep them engaged ... perhaps the Rover Program. My fear is that BSA decides, based on lawyers and insurance feedback, that they need to break apart Scouts BSA. I would put a Rover program as highly likely (it is already in pilots). The break apart of Scouts BSA is not likely ... but a small fear I have. I also think there may be "simplification" of program offerings. Cub Scouts already saw that with adventurer elimination. I wouldn't be surprised if there some other areas eliminated that would simplify the program. National will have less people to maintain program offerings, so they will focus on the higher volume aspects. Medium likely. Coed Units & DRP ... I could see this go many different ways. I lean to BSA handling this poorly. I don't expect this will change in 2022. I expect they will wait 3 years and 2025, just when BSA is starting to recover, BSA decides it needs more controversy and removes DRP & allows coed units. CO impacts . BSA will officially launch a method for units to be chartered by councils. I think this is highly likely. YPT changes More oversight, more reporting metrics, more training. Perhaps DEs need to sign off on volunteers instead of or in addition to CORs. Not sure of major changes, other than the possible breakup of Scouts BSA mentioned earlier. Costs All costs will increase. Uniforms, fees, HA bases, etc. Everything will go up.

I've always found their updates a bit odd. If I believed every press release about their growth, I would expect 500,000 members by now. If they spent the same amount of time getting units started as they do in bashing the BSA, they may have grown more by now. Bashing BSA should be reserved for members of scouter.com, BSA COs and claimant attorneys.

They have been around for awhile. They typically pop up whenever BSA is in the news (gays, transgender, girls and bankruptcy).

Ok, I moved some of the non legal discussion to the other thread.

Comparing to last update ... Unrestricted Cash (June End = $80.8M July End = $87.8M) Unrestricted Endowment Balance (June End = $19.4M July End = $0.9M) Unrestricted RBT Balance (June End = $66.4M ... July End = $66.5M) Total Liquid Unrestricted Balance (June End = $166.7M July End = $154.2M) If you look at the last several months, the pace of monthly loss of liquid unrestricted balance is increasing. In July .... we lost $12M, June we lost $8M, May we lost $2M. I expect August will be bad, but September you will see the trend perhaps reverse with new registrations.

Agreed and your points here may end up being the death of Scouts BSA as it stands. 18 years old isn't a light switch. To be more safe, we may need to follow the UK model, Scouts 10.5 - 14 ... Explorers 14 - 18 and Network 18 - 25. I think there is a bigger risk for 17 year olds hanging out with 13 year olds than 18 year olds with a 17 year old. I wonder if in 5 - 10 years if BSA is forced to change based on insurance policies & litigation potential.

As mentioned before in this thread, allow 18 year old seniors to be registered as youth. While that doesn't help 19 or 20 year olds, it addresses the biggest issue. I would have the rule be for Scouts BSA Youth change to: Youth can join Scouts BSA if they have completed the fifth grade and are at least 10 years old, OR have earned the Arrow of Light Award and are at least 10 years old, OR are age 11 but have not reached 18 OR have not completed 12 grade and are under 19 years. To age into Scouts BSA: Complete 5th grade and at least 10 years old Earned AOL and at least 10 years old OR 11 years old To age out of Scouts BSA Have not completed 12th grade and under 19 years old OR have not reached 18 years old So, this would allow seniors in high school to finish scouts BSA with their friends. It also puts a hard break at 19 AND allows those kids that graduate high school at 16 to continue in scouts until they are 18. Another option is to break up Scouts BSA into younger/older youth programs, but I'm not sure that is the best decision. We use the grade level to start Scouts BSA but not to end it. Again, this doesn't fix everything, but it would help allow Seniors in high school to finish scouts with their friends. Right now, they cannot.

Siblings have the exact same rules as other scouts for tenting per YPT. That is why I am wondering, per YPT, can an 18 year old adult leader be with their younger scout sibling without violating BSA policies. The way they are written today, it looks like they cannot be one on one. I know the sibling scenario is ridiculous but it goes to two points. 1) BSA requiring you to follow YPT outside scouting events. While they can recommend and should make clear that you cannot simply call something a non scouting event to get around YPT, they should not include non scouting events under their rules. I expect this is violated all the time. (For example, I know a lot of scouts have sleepovers at a kids house who is an adult leader. 99% of the time not parents are not registered adult leaders therefore violating 2 deep.) 2) We need a better way to handle 18 year olds … and likely 19 & 20 year olds. Venturing doesn’t help as they follow the same YPT today. I also agree that having a 18 year old (or even 17 year old) one on one with a 11 or 12 year old could be a risk. Today’s rules make it nearly impossible to have a 18 year old ASM unless you ignore aspects of YPT outside scouting or they have no friends in scouts.

I’ll also add that my case is common. Most 18 year olds likely have friends in scouts. Many 18 year olds likely go to school with scouts. My guess is many if not most 18 year old “adult leaders violate YPT outside scouting activities. I think it is a good area to clarify to help keep them in BSA without having to look the other way on aspects of YPT.

I thought so as well, but couldn't find any acceptations for family. At this point, it looks like he will not register. I talked with a few in our Troop and technically, if he keeps his participation to less than 72 hours he is fine. 18 year old Eagle Scout ... sorry buddy, take a hike as the BSA doesn't need you. What is crazy is that 18 year olds don't even count as adult leaders for 2 deep leadership... so 18, 19 & 20 year olds are pretty much considered nothing but a liability to the BSA (outside the hundred left in Venturing). To me, BSA should allow high school seniors to finish as youth in the program (as long as they are under 19). That would solve a ton of issues that I am starting to see (including having to Eagle before senior year).

The encounter could create a time paradox, the result of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's worst-case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.

The only answer is to stop scouting or stop being a friend of the 17 year old. Also, since they are in the same school and same robotics team, end that as well. That is the only way for it to work. I expect BSA would agree. Its not worth the trouble. How many cases of sex abuse were new 18 year old ASMs assualting their 17 year old ... my guess is almost 0, but that doesn't matter. One other question, as I have one other 18 year old ASM. Is it ok for an Adult to be one on one with their youth sibling? I have a 18 year old ASM who has a 13 year old brother .. both in the Troop. They are one on one many times outside scouting. Are they violating YPT and should I report the 18 year old to my DE? Just curious how far we are expected to take this. I 100% agree that as an adult leader (44 years old), I should not be hanging out with any youth scouting member (other than my kids) one on one, regardless of activity. I'm fine with that. What I am seeing, the rules as written, make it nearly impossible to have an 18 year old continue in scouting ... unless they have no friends in the program.

I think he is talking about outside scouting activities. To tell an 18 year old he has to give up a friendship to join as ASM is insane. It is not the intent of YPT. Basically, once you turn 18 you really can’t be in scouting as it is likely you will be around a 17 year old scout. Also, there is this. Private online communications (texting, phone calls, chat, IM, etc.) must include another registered leader or parent. So he can’t call his friend without his friends mom on the call.

My issue is this: So ... my 18 year old Adult ASM, per YPT, CANNOT hang out with scouting youth (like his 17 year old best friend) outside of scouting activities.

A senior in high school should be treated as a youth as long as he/she is under 19. We have youth that turn 18 before their senior year starts.

I don't think that was the goal. Perhaps it was, but if it was, that is crazy. I thought the point was that if they did a proper sample test, they could determine what % of claims were invalid. If a large enough were invalid, then perhaps, it would mean more if not all should be reviewed. So ... it is more like, I have a truck of apples and I randomly pick and audit a sample of those apples. If I pick a large enough sample and it is truly random, I can predict the % of bad apples in that truck.

If you randomly select those 1,400 claims (by law firm, location, age, etc.) you could predict what % you would expect to see as invalid overall. I didn't realize the way the broke up the categories and would need to defend that statistical sample. That seemed pretty questionable and I'm glad the judge rejected it.

The good news from today is we are seeing some motions denied or approved instead of the kick the can down the road we have seen previously.

He has been predicting this would turn into a mess from the beginning and it really looks bad today for the Coalition/TCC. Kosnoff predicted it and I have to give him credit for that. Now, to be clear, I DO NOT want to see the BSA dissolved. I am hopeful we see a deal that includes LCs and COs sometime within the next 6 months. I'm probably more optimistic now that a deal is done, but only because I expect the Coalition to sell out their claimants and BSA to throw the COs under the bus ... allowing a target for the state lawyers in the future. We will see what happens over the next few weeks.

Kosnoff is looking pretty good right now. I wonder how many times he laughed during the hearing. Now, the Coalition/TCC is probably luck the Hartford deal wasn't struck down. It gives them a bit more leverage. Let's see what happens now. (I wonder if that $800M deal is at risk given today).

We have a scout ready to start his Senior year of high school that just turned 18. He wants to keep participating, so I said sure, fill out this adult leader application & take YPT. Now, the questions... - Can he be with a scouting friend (currently 17), 1-1 at a scouting function? - As an adult leader, would there be an issue if he was with his friend, 1-1, at a non scouting function? I have 0 concerns in terms of actual safety. They are best friends and have been for 14 years. But now, at 18, one is treated as an adult by BSA. Any thoughts?

I believe the TCC said in a Townhall that Harford represented 40% of total insurance liability. Does this mean the rest, combined, would be $1.2B? My guess is that they would want more, but since Hartford got BSA to sign onto a deal, they have them over the barrel. $800M seems light for 40% of total insurance liability.

The NY window has now closed (August 13). It will be interesting to compare the various organizations and number of lawsuits/claimants.