Eagle1993

I think it started with a historical reference but the attempted defense of the Klan crossed a line. For example, we could talk about the fact that Hezbollah operates the Imam al-Mahdi Scouts which is a member of WOSM. I think that would be acceptable and an interesting discussion. Perhaps some may try and say that see … this is really interesting that they do things other than being terrorists. That is also fine with me but a careful discussion. There are a lot of organizations Nazis, al Qaeda, ISIS that I’m sure have done nice things…. but I mean come on. Where I think the thread would cross a line would be a defense of Hezbollah the organization. Perhaps someone can, but I don’t think it would belong in this Forum. I think for the most part this thread about the KKK in scouts stayed in category 1 above and perhaps occasionally slipped into category 2. Where it went bad was an attempt to defend the KKK itself. The KKK is a domestic terrorist organization. There is no defense of the KKK. Just like other terrorists, they did some good things from time to time, but it doesn’t mean they are not terrorists.

Good. This was a bad lawsuit by a bitter organization. GSUSA's reaction to this change was sad and I hope they and their councils grow up and allow us to work together again. That said ... BSA can't come back and sue other orgs if they use the word scouting when working with boys.

There are details and details by council. There are not details by year at least as far as I can tell. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/1a12ff15-6275-4111-af0d-7c683fdd59f2_6213.pdf Page 368 for high level details., 389 by council

BSA councils reported $1.651B in Long term investments Feb 28,2021. Using the S&P 500 as a baseline ... this was likely $1.41M in February 2020 when BSA filed bankruptcy. Then, looking at today, those investments ... again using S&P 500 as a baseline are likely $1.89B. So, since BSA filed bankruptcy, it is very possible Local Councils' long term investments increased by $480M. They are currently contributing $500M + $100M loan they are taking out. Their entire contribution is almost covered by the increase in long term investments since they filed bankruptcy. Now ... these are very rough estimates and it would be interesting if someone had the details from back in February 2020. In addition, some councils are getting hit much more than others and each council has their own investments. My summer camp was sold to cover this ... so I know the pain is real for some councils. That said, I am not surprised the TCC believes LCs (overall) can afford more and there have been reports of some LCs being able to cover it through sales of investments vs touching current FOS contributions or properties.

Probably a different thread.

If 637 kids drowned since 2010 in BSA I would think you would say we need to relook at our water safety program .... 637 is far too many CSA claimants. I agree we have improved. I don't agree we are doing everything we can.

BSA has 637 CSA claims 2010 and later. USA Gymnastics has a total of just over 500 claims.

I am fully vaccinated as is my wife and son (who had Covid and got the shot 2 days after it was approved). My friends and my kids friends are all vaccinated. I live in an area with where 74% of the total population is vaccinated (not just adults). I had a coworker with no underlying issues (skinny, fit, etc.) die of Covid this year. I fully believe in the vaccine and believe it is the best path out of Covid. That said ... I think BSA has the correct policy and shouldn't change it. We are a large country and the backlash would fall on our volunteers. If there are requirements by other bodies (government, business, school, etc.) let them enforce those and I'm certainly willing to enforce other party requirements if we are using their facilities/etc. I really have no desire to go beyond that at this time. While mandates by businesses may work (as people get paid to work and quitting has bigger impacts) or travel (take a train/bus/plane is a big impact), I think a mandate by a scouting organization will simply lead to loss of membership with no increase in vaccination rates.

I think Kosnoff may actually support a plan that does not include CH7 of BSA. The TCC plan could win a huge vote by claimants; however, I’m not sure if it would be acceptable to the BSA.

That is the whole reason why we are here in bankruptcy. If the SOL said you only have 2 years to file a civil claim like a slip and fall, BSA would never had to enter bankruptcy. Several states opened look back windows and expanded their SOLs which flooded BSA with lawsuits (or was about to) and BSA went into bankruptcy proactively. One could argue that if only National BSA was being covered then those with outside SOL claims should be considered under the Future Claimants then I could agree. Where I see an issue is when COs and LCs are being covered. At that point, everyone should get a vote as those groups are not bankrupt but looking to get out of current and future claims.

There is no moral equivalence between our US military possibly killing innocent people when targeting groups who are our enemy and the Ku Klux Klan who bombed churches because black people worship there. Take that crap somewhere else.

I'm 99% sure it was 40% which was mentioned in a TCC townhall. That is why I was shocked the Hartford settlement was so low. It really cuts the legs out of any real major payment to claimants. I wish BSA didn't have that initial Hartford settlement. Without that, I think this deal would be much closer to finalizing.

From what I understand ... many lawyers and claimants were told they could expect big payouts from insurance companies. Think $XB or even $XXB. What they are seeing from a major insurance company is <$1B ... which is making them reconsider and may then demand more money from other sources (LCs, BSA and COs).

BSA proposed an nearly identical plan earlier. It was their toggle plan and they claimed they could survive. It was their backup incase the claimant voted down the current plan. I think many LCs would be fine due to current SOL laws, those at high risk could settle directly with TCC.

This is a bit odd as during the hearing on Sept 21 she will decide if she should delay the hearing scheduled Sept 21?

Started new thread here

And she went on for a page and a half as to every reason why she objected to the idea.

There is 0 percent chance she allows this. It seemed to anger her a bit. It looks like a bribe....

Didn't the judge scrap this ask as part of the RSA?

I think its highly likely she delays the Sept 21 hearing. I do question if she allows a different deal. That said, she needs a deal with 66%+ of the claimants and the Coalition alone may not get it there (remember, many of those claimants are actually shared with Kosnoff). Plus, if only voting claimants count, I've seen objections from many law firms that seem very active with smaller groups of claimants (and I expect they can rally votes quickly). If the TCC is NOT onboard, she runs a major risk of having the vote fail. She is probably better off with a deal that the TCC is onboard with even if it loses support from Insurance and LDS.

There is only 1 reason BSA incorporated in Delaware 2 years before bankruptcy and it isn't their business friendly tax rates (as MOST of their business stayed in Texas ... not exactly a high tax state). https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2021/06/29/bankruptcy-court-venue-shopping-targeted-bipartisan-bill/7803835002/

If BSA only incorporated in 2019 I bet you he is correct (at least in terms of picking Delaware). BSA knew they were in serious financial trouble for many years. https://www.delawareonline.com/story/money/business/2014/09/19/companies-turn-delaware-survive-bankruptcy/15891887/

Yes ... I think sometimes "unrestricted" is a grey area. I know my council has listed a bunch of properties as restricted but are looking at selling them anyway.

That is another good look. I took the most optimistic (in terms of claimants) aspect of payouts. Assuming that every council is 100% correct on their net unrestricted assets. It would be good to see the total asset look as well. Obviously there are many other factors (like SOLs, # of claims) that could be factored in the payout by council.