Eagle1993

I expect each time they did risk/benefit tradeoff discussions. They may have been better talking with 3 guys at a food truck. These decisions really started with Dale (perhaps you could argue it goes back to their partnership with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). I'm sure each time they weighed the risks of change and did their best.. but clearly the end result has been failure. 1999- Keeping Gay scouts out... To prevent angering the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, BSA fought to keep gay scouts out. In 1999/2000 there was limited blow back. However, that grew over time and as the USA opinions on gays changed, BSA was clearly behind the times (similar to their delayed response to desegregation in the 1960s). 2013/2015 - Gay scouts/leaders admitted.... They stopped listening to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and realized the nation passed them by. They probably made the decision 5 years too late, but it is what it is. The damage was done for corporate donors, United Way and progressive areas. However, I expect this started the clock for the LDS to leave. 2018/2019 - Girls admitted... They knew the LDS were leaving and felt they needed a new group of youth to recruit. They wanted to minimize the impact to existing scouts so they attempted to minimize changes (single gender, BSA name stays the same, etc.). They attempted to split the baby.... 2020 - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints leave BSA 2020-2024 Covid/Bankruptcy caused further damage 2025 - Scouting America.... They decided to go all in on relaunching BSA. I expect they believe the BSA brand has been tarnished and they need a relaunch. BSA membership and financials are atrocious so I expect they are more willing to be aggressive. What else is changing going forward? I don't think a name change alone will do anything. Perhaps it's time for them to talk to a few guys at the food truck.

BSA mentioned this, which is why they added girls but kept girls in their own den and Troop. The idea was that it would prevent any loss of boys while also adding girls. Clearly that strategy didn't work, which is likely one reason why they are adding fully coed options. No point in keeping them separated if it didn't keep scouts/scouters from quitting and many packs/Troops operated like coed units anyway.

When we hear BSA plans to simplify the program (for Scouts), is the fear moving it back to 1972 and skill awards?

BSA lost a million and a half scouts from the start of Dale to lifting the ban on gay scouts. They fought 15+ years and cemented their legacy of discrimination against the gay community. Yes they are much more inclusive now, but 15+ years digs a deep hole of mistrust. GSUSA who avoided that mess has 700,000 more girls than total youth in BSA. That said, it is tough to determine if BSA numbers would be better now if they accepted gay youth at the same time GSUSA did. Loosing relationships with public schools was damaging, but I expect trends would have worked against BSA regardless. Recent changes.... Did adding girls help stave off a deeper drop than would have occurred if the didn't add girls? I lean to the guess that short term, the impact on total membership has been a net negative. That said, the question will be in 10-15 years will BSA be better off accepting all youth? Time will tell. Note that this is just discussion members numbers, not how these changes could negatively impact the chance for boys to have their own space.

Stage 1 .... We are well past this now, but were there in the 80s and 90s.... Another characteristic of stage one decline is the loss of the adventurous, open-minded, searching orientation for continuous learning. Answers are believed to be found in the years of experience, which might be useful, yet often can be blinding in new situations. Typically, generational and positional gaps present themselves with one-up-man-ship dynamics by those with positional power or organizational tenure. The past filters the present so that a true future cannot be created without showing “due” and “respect” for those that lived the past. Clearly, an issue of pride.

Compare BSA to UK. UK in 2023 grew by 5.6% and has 100,000 youth on waiting list to join. UK scouting has various advantages but we have a lot to learn from them....

2022 Report Cubs - 580,194 Scouts - 415,564 Venturing and Sea Scouts - 15,400 Explorers - 30,870 TOTAL - 1,042,028 2023 Report Cubs - 574,365 (-1.0%) Scouts - 392,275 (-5.6%) Venturing and Sea Scouts - 14,961 (-2.9%) Explorers - 33,445 (8.3%) TOTAL - 1,015,046 (-2.6%)

Venturing has been in decline, our entire District is down to 1 crew. There w as a rumor that a new program Rovers? that could replace venturing. I think Rovers would be pushing the upper age limit of Venturing. Edit... Rovers look like option post Venturing.. https://tidewaterbsa.com/rovers/

We haven't been doing great working with our packs. In the past, the Pack leaders were much more responsive to our invites but recently most kids are dropping before getting to Boy Scouts. So, this is a bit of a Hail Mary. If we fail to recruit by fall 2025 our Troop will likely fold. Also, we have gone from 4 feeder packs 4 years ago to 1 this coming fall. 3 of the 4 packs have folded.

As a Troop, we have seen massive losses before crossover, so we are looking to pilot running the 5th grade AOL program. Our plan is to hold AOL meetings concurrently with Troop Meetings had have our Troop Guide and a ASM run the den meeting. Basically take over for the den leaders. Not sure if it will work, but we figured it can't be worse than what has been happening the last 3 years.

Most of the best Troops and Packs in my area have older scouters involved. One major issue is that there appears to be less willingness to volunteer the massive amount of hours scouting requires from the upcoming generation of parents. One Troo I talked with mentioned that in the past there was some competition over who would be Scoutmaster and now parents want a program but don't want to volunteer. This may be a N of 3-4 and may not be widespread, but I get the sense that BSA sees a problem. Simplifying programs could be beneficial but could also lead to some really bad outcomes. I hope for the best but I respect Mike and if he is concerned I am as well.

18 Eagle required MBs can be done fully/nearly fully indoor while 4 (cooking, camping, hiking and cycling) have substantial outdoor requirements. BSA lost me on "scouting is outdoors" when they added Citizenship in Society merit badge. Most of my Eagle Scouts have said Wilderness Survival should be Eagle Required but yet BSA went with another discuss/research/report type badge. In addition, my Troop was the only one to camp outdoors during our recent district's Klondike. In the past the Patrols camping outdoors would be awarded more points...not this year. In fact, the Patrols who did cabin camping were able to work on sled decorations (earning trail points) and eat in the dining hall while my patrols cooked their own their own meals outside. They were happy to campout but clearly the pressure and awards are emphasizing indoor cabin camping. Heck, look at summer camps and the near complete loss of patrol cooking options. We struggle to find camps that support outdoor patrol cooking. BSA may say outdoors but their program, district and councils are all pushing more activities indoors (and in some cases away from the patrol method). Their advertising looks great but not aligned with 90% of what BSA has become.

Also, I do expect BSA may look to update their charter. The boy club officially updated their charter to the boys and girls club when they added girls.

I think there is near zero chance GSUSA sues. I believe they claimed they spent 3-5 million in litigation last time and received nothing from BSA. I expect BSA lawyers, who won the last TM lawsuit, made sure Scouting America was litigation proof.

If they plan to make a change, now is the time. I'm tired of the drip, drip, drip of change causing constant controversy. Get it over with at once or never change it for 10+ years. I'm concerned that they will save this change for 2-3 years from now just when people have finally accepted the name change.

And then you join and realize 90% of BSA activities are meetings and merit badge clinics where you have to write reports while adult leaders argue if googling information for your report was sufficient or if you should have used an Encyclopedia written in 1982.

Baby Steps of America.... I expect we were headed to coed all along.

Name changes and minor program tweaks won't make a significant impact. I'm seeing a complete collapse of scouting in my area. Multiple Packs ending, others seeing limited growth. Multiple Troops in my area are also near collapse. Summer camps, camporees are losing attendees. The answer from National... A name change? I think the change is fine, but hopefully I hear about their plans to reverse the decline.

From Facebook An announcement was made today during the BSA National Annual Meeting regarding Scouts BSA. The BSA has received feedback through member surveys, councils, and other sources that have encouraged a third option be made available to serve youth and their families interested in Scouting. This option would be a “combined troop” option to help serve all youth and families that wish to participate in Scouting guided by the Scout Oath and Law. The National Executive Committee (NEC) has authorized the Scouts BSA Committee to conduct a limited pilot from September 1, 2024, through July 2025. The Scouts BSA Committee will collect feedback from participants and make a recommendation based on the data on the program to the NEC in 2025. More information will be forthcoming. Thank you for your service to Scouting and for providing every young person and their family with the opportunity to participate in Scouting’s life changing programs.

Scouts SA already exists (Australia)... I wonder what the plan is...

@BinTharDunThat Welcome to Scouter.com. 1) I would expect they likely met with GSUSA before this announcement and hopefully came to some agreement. 2) Ugh So Boy Scouts went to Scouts BSA and now Scouts SA?

Are there council mergers being announced?

The school board found a way to get kids to read books ... announce that they are banned. I would think BSA would be fine accepting controversial Eagle Scout projects. One of our youth did a project for an organization that provides housing for primarily LGBTQ youth who were abused at home. That said, there was a clear benefactor and and the project wasn't directed against any political group. So, I could see a way for a project like this could work in the BSA, but not in the manner it was conducted as a Gold project.

I would lead with: 1) Is the PLC running the Troop well? 2) Are new scouts <2 years integrating well into the activities and patrols. 3) Are AOL scouts attending any meetings and outings and has that gone well? I think the other items are fine, but some should also come from committee members themselves (advancement chair, etc.).

Looks like Blackberry (RIM) stock price. I expect BSA numbers will be similar. I still believe in scouting but a lot has to change for it to grow again and I don't think those changes will happen.