Eagle1993

I've never heard this. I struggle to get enough adults to come to camp already... High adventure hasn't been an issue. Summer camp, they scatter.

I'm not sure about Summit, but BSA pay for staffers is far less than other summer camps in my area. Talking with some, camps are paying around $800 per week for staff. My daughter has gone to several camps and there appears to be no shortage. BSA needs to learn about capitalism.... If you want staff, you need to pay. These kids have options for summer jobs. Now, that also means you probably make less profit from summer camps and likely need to charge more. My BSA summer camp also had shortages of staff, the major impact was the riffle and shotgun ranges where they didn't really have much of an open shoot.

It's all over. All lawsuits dropped. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/b530ab19-6224-4f25-af12-fa7a92aa4b01_10117.pdf

Yes, they have a staff.

Bankruptcy Professor Melissa Jacoby just tweeted out thoughts as to why the BSA plan hasn't been approved. I found this to be a good summary that could explain. As mentioned, perhaps the judge is being very careful to ensure district/appeals approves the plan AND no one takes this plan as precedential where it is not intended to be. That plus the possibility where it is not an all-or-nothing could mean this is a very complex ruling that is just taking 3+ months. In case, good to see an expert weigh in.

https://www.courthousenews.com/second-circuit-looks-askance-at-6-billion-oxycontin-settlement/ There is this... I don't think she can call up the judges ... but if she watched the hearing, perhaps she saw comments from Judge Lee and Judge Wesley and thought ... uh oh.

Let this sink in. Purdue Pharma, complex case, had confirmation hearings in mid/late August 2021. Judge Drain did a 5+ hour ruling approving the plan September 1. Days after the last hearing. That plan was rejected by district December 16. So, 3.5 months to get a ruling from the bankruptcy judge, have that plan then reviewed by district and rejected by district. The BSA plan is already at 3+ months post confirmation hearing and still no decision. This seems very odd. Perhaps a bankruptcy lawyer can explain how common it is for a judge to not rule for 3+ months after a confirmation hearing where other complex cases are able to go through both the judges ruling and district court review within that same time period. The only reason I have heard that may make sense is if she heard something during the Purdue appeals court hearing (back in April) that gave her pause. There could be other reasons, but I haven't heard a good explanation. She definitely doesn't want this plan to be rejected and if the appeals court either rejects or approves Purdue, she could use that language as guidance on the BSA plan. That should help avoid loss at appeal. In any case, only she knows why it is taking this long. Hopefully we hear an answer soon. Claimants need to start the next steps of closure and BSA needs to implement their post bankruptcy plan.

No idea. Heard rumors the judge is waiting to hear appeals court ruling on Purdue. If that isn't the case, it doesn't make sense. I wonder if she has everything ready except the third party releases.

Big issue is Cub Scouts. I would love to know that number. It recovered some post Covid, but I think we will struggle with numbers as the Covid dip starts hitting Troops. 667K seems incredibly low...

Will keep this locked until we hear more news to discuss. The hearing for July 20th was cancelled at the request of BSA and non settling insurers. Next schedule hearing is August 24, 2022.

I have found my scouting history, Indian Lore MB, OA (with full regalia), attending Pow Wows has helped me develop a great respect of NA people and culture. I have told my scouts the story of how my BSA experience led me to protest against our University mascot. (I was ready and excited to see the "authentic" mascot, only to immediately see the costume used was not authentic to the tribes in our area and the "dance" was Hollywood from the 1930s). While BSA isn't perfect, a lot of the regalia and dances are much more authentic than what is out in larger society and I think it built a health respect of NA culture. I would love to see BSA & OA strengthen partnerships with tribes. I think it would be great for both. Unfortunately, at least in discussions with my scouts, the die has been cast and they don't seem to see the regalia or ceremonies in the same light I did 30-35 years ago. As I mentioned, they see it as a minstrel show. I know we are a large country, so what I hear from my scouts likely differs from other Troops. In the end, it is a good idea to ask lodges to work directly with local tribes ... I am just not convinced that will work throughout the country.

The council call out I went to had no regalia. Apparently a local tribe objected when asked. They still put on a good ceremony. I personally liked what an older scouter said before we headed to the OA call out. He emphasized cheerful service and that it was an honor to be elected to the OA. That OA represents the best of scouting and those chosen for the honor should continue their cheerful service. OA seems to be in serious trouble and I question it's long term viability. Our council OA meetings are an hour away. Our council camp doesn't have a Scouts BSA program and is over an hour away. Building a service organization that does anything more than 1-2 events a year is tough as council camps are sold off and councils merge, expanding OA lodges across wide expanses of the state. Most of my scouts preferred OA call outs to not have regalia. They seemed open to if if a tribe was partnered with the lodge ... but several compared prior (regalia based) OA callouts to minstrel shows. First ... I think OA needs to figure out the 1 lodge/council situation. When we go to 80 councils (or there abouts) post bankruptcy ... 1 lodge/council doesn't work. I almost think we should have a lodge per district. Second ... Perhaps OA isn't just or primarily dedicated to service of council camps. That worked when councils have several camps, many of which within a short drive. Council camps are being sold off left/right ... OA should broaden their service. Third ... If there is a tribe that works closely with the lodge, great. Otherwise, figure out a non NA version of ceremonies. Don't just copy the NA version without regalia. Use it as an opportunity to use scouting history ... referencing great scouts of the past. Dress in full Class A uniforms. I could imagine some impressive ceremonies that are based on scouting history. Finally ... Make OA more visible during camporees and other council/district activities. It seems like I only hear of OA during election & callouts. Hopefully OA adjusts. They are a great organization, but have a lot of headwinds. We will see...

I would look at the omnibus hearings as just a monthly meeting in front of the judge. It is on everyone's calendar so if an issue isn't urgent, it could be addressed in the omnibus hearing. If there is nothing to cover, it can be cancelled. If something is urgent, another hearing could be requested. I don't take the schedule of omnibus hearings as indicating anything about the timing of the judge's ruling. I think BSA can survive until October but they are running out of cash and need some amount just to handle payroll and legal fees if they go Ch 7. At some point, they will run out of cash. I think you will see signs, such as canceling Jambo, before they would announce Ch 7. I haven't seen any concerning announcements yet.

This is painful for recruiting Lions/Tigers. Add in the uniform cost, Pack dues and you can get to $200+ just to join Cub Scouts fairly quickly.

Every LC should use this version of the charter agreement. It provides much more clarity in terms of liability of the scouting unit. I'm not saying it is better for units, just for LCs.

Or mind it.

I hid some posts that deviated from the bankruptcy topic. Feel free to start new topics as desired.

Hopefully we hear soon. BSA is down to $38.6M of unrestricted cash in May down from $45.6M in April.

It goes to the Girl Scout model. There should be ownership of units. Most charters do not have the capacity or desire to actually own the units. Therefore, it should fall on the BSA through councils. Councils could ensure oversight by interviewing unit leaders (the CC & SM/CM). Ensuring they are trained for their position. Then allowing them to run the show with the rest of the leaders (checking on YPT). Perhaps councils limit units based on area. Perhaps they even have to limit # of scouts per unit if they grow too large vs the number of trained leaders they have. UMC & Elks are the start. I wouldn't be surprised to see Catholic charters follow. BSA will need a model on how to own units.

Unfortunately both of these organizations are in decline as well. Our local AL sold their building and may be closed. They probably aren't bad short term. BSA will likely need this new agreement as I expect more and more units having issues finding decent charters. Having a way that clearly addresses "ownership" will help some organizations accept units.

As part of the plan, BSA councils are kicking in an extra $100M that would have gone to pension fund as the councils said the fund was already larger than needed at the time of the plan. I definitely agree most claimants would be better off in Ch 11, but some would be better off in Ch 7. I certainly hope the judge comes back with an approval as it seems like we are running out of time. At some point they will hit cash flow issues. As long as Jambo 2023 is on, I think we are ok. If you see BSA cancel 2023 it may be a sign the bankruptcy is taking too long and they need to save cash.

It is not clear how everyone would be treated. First regarding assets available. Everything is sold. However, there could be deed restrictions that will be fought in court over Philmont (and perhaps other based). Those legal fights could take months to years. What about Trademarks? The Eagle Scouts rank could be valuable; however, does the congressional charter prevent that being sold to a for profit business? Who knows what comes up. Then on claims. The TCC already filed an adversarial hearing over the JP Morgan debt. That will go forward and there is definitely a decent chance some of that debt could be questioned and changed to unsecured. Pensions... Read the attachment if you like. Pensions are actually unsecured debt. That alone is a mess. For claimants, far less will be available as many of the remaining assets will pay lawyers as the fight months and possibly years over the carcus of the BSA. No one wins other than those who's primary goal is to kill the BSA. Even then, BSA 2.0 would be created in parallel and perhaps even purchase some assets from BSA 1.0. At some point, Ch 7 may be slightly less worse than continuing to try and proceed with Ch11 for BSA. I doubt we are close to that and don't see it was likely but there is always a chance. 060503_bleb_lewis.pdf

I've mentioned NICA (Mountain Bike Youth Race League) in the past. In their coaches training, they emphasized how to coach skills and how not to coach skills. They showed a picture of a bunch of youth sitting in a group looking bored out of their minds. That was under the how not to coach a skill. That picture (of the bored youth) could be taken at many summer camp merit badge sessions I have seen over the last several years. BSA seems to be, in practice, doing exactly what other organizations are saying what not to do. Why should we be surprised to see our numbers falling.

In this Troop they are. They have the SPL, ASPL at the head table. Patrols then site at tables. Then they work on advancement at their tables from planning outings to advancement. I think BSA needs to relook at the program given what youth need today. That is tough as it varies a lot by income and location. However, if I were to simplify BSA methods I would: Prioritize #1 Outdoors - I think outdoors makes BSA a bit unique and can be fun. Downside is that some scouts more focused on STEM (which are a lot) would likely drop. #2 Patrols - Again, unique to BSA and a key aspect of following methods. #3 Ideals - Scout Oath & Law is key and should be taught and practiced by all. #4 Leadership - We need leaders in our country ... I see far too many willing to follow and not lead. BSA has a great history in developing leaders. It typically isn't hard to say what is important. What is hard is to say what one would focus less on. So, I think BSA should De-prioritize: De-Prioritize #1 Uniform - Honestly, I would be fine if we just went to a neckerchief. Show up in what is appropriate. A suit for a formal occasion. Work shirt and jeans. Etc. Just have that neckerchief and lets go! #2 Advancement - Eliminate all ranks except Eagle. Less focus on Eagle as closing out a checklist of activities vs an indication of top scouts. Let Scoutmasters decide who their Eagle scouts are based upon Scout's accomplishments over time. Other ranks ... end. You learn scouting skills, but no need to advertise a rank. Scout leaders can assign tasks & roles based on your skill. Merit badges are fine, but reduced focus. #3 Adult Association - I think we actually have too much adult association right now. Yes, keep scoutmaster conferences and adults involved in the program. However, if we make the mistake ... make it with less adult association as many kids today have too much (helicopter parents, etc.). #4 Personal Growth - I think this will happen anyway.

My son just asked his best friend why he dropped out of scouting (from another troop). He said Boy Scouts is 10 hours of boring meetings for every weekend of camping. He can just go camping without the boring meetings. Another scouting friend said the same thing. I am debating if we stop indoor meetings as much as possible.