Eagle1993

@lupacexi First welcome to scouter. Your post is off topic so you may want to start a new topic in our U23 ASEAN FC section. Also, Cho was offsides at 23’ so it should have been a draw. So, please return to the topic at hand... Scouting options in the Sioux Falls area.

I just spent the last hour looking at the BSA reviews in Glassdoor. While you have to be careful believing everything there are many DEs who have submitted reviews over the last year. You can probably guess the overall tone of the feedback... Great feeling of helping and working with many volunteers and scouts. Pathetic pay $35-$40k per year and horrible work/life balance working 60-70 hours a week, most weekends and weekday nights. They also have issues regarding council and national leadership, outdated business model, wasteful spending and risky income sources. A couple had comments that BSA is headed toward collapse (I don’t agree and perhaps that is just their emotional response). Overall it confirms some of my fears. I look at my DE and office staff (the front line) and have been (for the most part) impressed. My DE helps me out at all hours, travels a ton and is always there with advice. I honestly don’t know what benefit we get from council and upper level paid leadership. I certainly hope the organization relooks at where they allocate capital and ensure the most critical resources are given The highest priority. From what I have seen to date I’m not sure that is the case.

I believe the report should be available to the public. I’m not sure if the below incident was discussed but it was another case of three boys (one killed two injured) in a sailboat that came into contact with overhead lines. http://www.ecmweb.com/content/dont-get-zapped-cable-clearance-over-water Without making it public, how do regulatory agencies and private companies not involved with the incident ensure they have the proper processes in place to prevent this from occurring in other locations? The goal should be to learn from these incidents to help prevent future harm. NPR had a good TED radio hour regarding transparency. I think the medical device/nurse issue was a great example of why transparency is important (not only to prevent future incidents but also honoring the injured and deceased). https://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio-hour/567499335/transparency

Or just go on eBay and buy a car. Have your au pair attend the Pack meeting with your son and fire her if he loses. I’m not sure why everyone is making this so complicated. I’m not a fan of 3D printed car idea at this point... perhaps in the future when they are cheaper and more widely available. For now, keep it simple and have the kids build as much of the car as they can based on their ability. Ever since we found out (after the race ceremony) that our winning scouts car was purchased for nearly $100 on eBay I’ve soured on the event. Overall it is fun for parents and kids but there are still Too many parents overly involved with their kids race results. Our biggest trophy is for Sportsmanship ship as well, but that hasn’t stopped some of the arguments (my favorite was one with a parent regarding why they ... i mean their kid.. placed 8th instead of 7th). My stance.... it doesn’t matter.... they didn’t like that response.

I have no doubt most positions will be filled. I also agree that the BSA may luck into some great people willing to work hard and stay on board with a low salary. My concern is that generally you will not see consistent strong long term employees if you cut pay and benefits. My wife’s food pantry is prime example. They found a guy. He isn’t innovative, sometimes misses deadlines, doesn’t fundraise well, etc. However he shows up, the pantry functions and isn’t a drunk (all of which have been issues in the past). They really want a better leader but cannot find one willing to work for just above minimum wage. Again, I know there are gems out there that would be great and would work for free, but long term this is not a great situation to ensure you can attract the top talent.

https://town-village.com/2018/01/03/st-girl-recognized-as-boy-scout-after-11-years-of-scouting/ While Sydney told Town & Village this week she would like to see the BSA do away with the holdup on accepting girls, she said she is now satisfied with how things turned out. I wonder how much of this push for her being Eagle is her father vs her. Note that she does reference if she will get credit for her prior work.

The reason we are pushing is that some of the girls were interested in summer camps this summer. By allowing them to join now they are eligible for camp. Otherwise I agree and I’m not pushing any recruitment outside our current Pack families until next Scout year.

This option should not be overlooked. My nephew was in Boy Scouts for years. He hated Troop meetings (boring) but enjoyed the outings. His grandfather (my dad) is still heavily involved in his Troop (committee member and at council runs many EBOR) and has had arguments with his Troop leader (who plays favorites and invents requirements for advancement). Last blow up came when she refused to sign off all of the scouts leadership positions (except her sons) when she didn’t think they performed them to her expectations. My dad pulled my nephew from the Troop and signed him up with another. The other Troop is small and building. After the 1st meeting with his new Troop my nephew stated it was the first Troop meeting where he had fun (they worked on art MB). So, if it is an option, there may be other Troops that are out there that could be an improvement. Perhaps not, but it doesn’t hurt to look.

I had a meeting with my DE. Very few packs are proceeding with this option (my understanding is that my Pack is the only one or two in his district), so yes we will have a lot of love and attention from our DE. The DE will setup training and help explain how we can run a single cross grade den (similar to how he runs the extension? program). Our DE has been very helpful but I do expect he will be monitoring for national. I’m not sure what involvement there will be outside our DE; however, he emphasized that they will look for new leaders to be registered as den leaders to show separate den(s) for the girls. I think it is clear that everyone knows many Packs will have single gender dens in name only but want to make sure this initial role out is single gender. I actually think they should be less hands on to see how Packs will really react (or not have unique rules). Otherwise I’m not sure they will really learn how this change will really be implemented. There is a bit of the thumb on the scale situation. That said, the response from the Pack has been tepid. We have 3 girls interested over the last 3 days. Once I get a fourth we will start the official process.

Does anyone have an rough org chart of BSA? I’m curious what exists above the council level. What could be saved at various levels to put more money at those directly working with scouters? I don’t know if there is waste but I would be interested in the details. I’ve worked at companies where large amount of cash was spent in HQ vs out in the field where it would have been more effective.

This race exists for boys as well. Just search 11 year old Eagle Scout. I agree it is not a good thing, but it doesn’t really bother me that much. From my experience those scouts are rare, a bit annoying but otherwise harmless to the remaining scouts. If anything, it means the scouts that are racing get less out of the program. I understand the girls who would age out racing to get Eagle more so than a boy (or girl) racing when they have plenty of time.

A scout is Thrifty! Without a doubt, pensions are becoming a rare benefit. That said, I don’t believe DE’s salaries are high (based upon previous forum threads) and the loss of this benefit won’t help. Yes, one can live off low salaries but not everyone is willing to work for $30-$40-$50k less per year. My wife is a volunteer president of a food pantry. The salary and benefits they offer their employees is minimal. The issue they are running into is finding great leaders willing to work for such low salary and benefits, so they settle for suboptimal performance. My concern is that by cutting benefits on already low salary you are on a race to the bottom. You’ll see jobs not being filled or filled by individuals that may not have the best performance. I’m sure there are great leaders that are willing to sacrifice further, but it is definitely not good news for attracting top talent.

If there is any question about BSA’s financial status I think this answers it. The combination of cutting a pension benefit, huge increase in annual membership fee and admitting girls seems to point to a cash concern. I think the 2017 annual report will be an interesting read (2016 looked like a disaster). I expect massive council consolidation (similar to Michigan) as the cost cutting continues. I hope BSA finds a way to financial health soon. I’m impressed with my DE and the amount of time he works. Sad to see this benefit go away.

Her “fight” could have been both about her own interest and also the broader “good”. Either way, I think BSA should keep this simple. Set the start date for girls, any girl that joins must meet the requirements (including timeline) for Eagle. I think that leaves her out but honestly there are probably 1,000s of other girls in similar situations who did work without recognition. I dont think she should get special treatment because her dad was a rich NYC lawyer who ensured her story was publicized. True leaders would be excited for the change and confident that their work is the true mark of accomplishment and leadership... not the rank.

So, we have started the process to add girls as part of the early adopter program. Still early in the process so we will see where this goes Requirements are similar to what you saw in the video. It is clear they want us to keep the boy and Girl dens separate. They want new den leaders for the all girls den(s). It was mentioned that if we have 9 boys and 5 girls in the same level, they could meet same time/place but should have separate leaders and be separate during the activity. This is an emphasis of the early adopter program. They do not want commingled dens. Minimum number of girls per Pack is 4-5. There is no minimum per den. We can combine girls in different age groups in the same all Girl den. This probably explains the pack with 5 girls. Right now, we are working on identifying girls that want to join and den leaders to cover their den(s). If there is not enough interest we will stop. Jan 15 is the official start date.

I expect to see a lot of these announcements nationwide, especially if councils take advantage of the marketing potential. To date, all of the discussion have been theory. Once the general population starts seeing girl and boy cub scouts in Pinewood derby races opinions may get a bit softer and recruiting efforts may be more successful in the fall.

Our council announced that they are looking for some Packs to add girls as early as Jan 15. Our Pack is considering taking this on and are in discussions with Council on what prerequisites we must have in place. Will keep you posted if we go ahead....

I think it depends on Pack size. Let’s say I have a 40 Bear Scouts, 30 boys and 10 girls. I expect limited issues finding appropriate leadership. Now, in my Pack, I expect ~12-15 boy Bear Scouts and 2-3 girls. One of the girls has already been attending all of the Bear den meetings and outings as she is the twin sister of a current member and her mom is one of the den leaders. We already talked as a Pack and we do no plan on splitting that group. We already have a male and female den leader for the existing Bear den. When they move to Webelos we plan on making those two the same den leaders for the Girl Webelos den and they’ll meet at the same time and place. I haven’t seen anything that shows this would violate policy (officially they are still two dens both with appropriate leadership). I also brought this up during a district meeting and they saw no issue as well. I’ve talked with several Troops and they also plan a similar style (same leadership, Boy/Girl Troops, same meeting time/place). Our Pack leadership has decided to take this on a case by case basis, but I do expect several functionally coed dens

I think their plan is the min wait periods so you are correct it would be longer than 1 year. I guess my question would be regarding girls who completed the requirements for merit badges prior to official membership during the EBOR. For example, if their record shows they earned 10-15 merit badges within 1 month of joining BSA. Technically they performed the requirements, but before officially becoming a member. I imagine this will be occurring across the US as Troops race to have the first female Eagle Scouts, and I’m curious how EBORs will handle it. I think this will be a much more common situation than the Ireland one.

I do not see the BSA offering (nor should they) Ireland Eagle (given the number of other girls that could also claim the same circumstances). I have heard of at least one Troop in Illinois who currently has unofficial girl members They are filling out blue cards, keeping track of activities, etc. Their plan is to create Troop 123B with identical leadership as their current Troop That Troop will have girls and would meet the same time and place as Troop 123. As soon as girls are allowed in, they plan to sign off on all the blue cards and provide merit badges and the appropriate rank. That could mean they will have a girl earn Eagle in less than a year after joining. I do wonder how the EBOR would handle these situations. I could see this as the real transition challenge vs the Ireland situation.

My focus is on the grade school age portion (primarily Cub scouts). If you read the guides you’ll see that GSUSA offers similar activities as Cub Scouts .... they just offer many more options. This isn’t just Camp Beverly Hills... though that option probably exists.

I’m in Southeastern Wisconsin. I’ll ask about paid staff at our district meeting. Both Cub Scout and Girl Scout camps are in the range of $175 per week. Some of the Girl Scout camps charge extra for bussing (the bus stop is two blocks from my house). The Cub Scout camps do not offer bussing. One example... Cub scouts have In-town day camp which is similar to the Girl Scouts community Day Camp. The Cub Scout in town day camp is led by adults (with some Boy Scout volunteers. The Girl Scout community day camp is lead by their teen Girl Scouts. I think that helps immensely as the adults can then focus on the other day camps that are offered. i know of a parent who signed their son up for the standard day camp only to learn later the Pack (or parent) would have to provide the two-deep leadership coverage ... so he dropped out of the camp. This is the Girl Scout camp guide that just arrived: http://issuu.com/girlscoutswise/docs/summer_camp_and_events_book_17-18?e=4549039/56597642 This is the website for our Cub Scout Summer Camps http://www.threeharborsscouting.org/camping/cub-scout-summer-camp/61330 Website for our Boy Scout Camps http://www.threeharborsscouting.org/camping/boy-scout-summer-camp/64289 I do think we will eventually get a Cub Scout camp packet... but it is no where close to what the GSUSA generated.

This is my first year as a parent of a Girl Scout, my daughter is a daisy. We just received the Girl Scout summer camp guide and to be perfectly honest it blows away the BSA. The Girl Scouts have weekly camps from early June through MID August. They have a great collection of both day camps and overnights. They have various speciality camps. They don’t require parents or leaders of local units to attend. If adult partners do attend, they are not charged and their daughter receives a discount. The Girl Scouts offer bussing to all their day camps. Their guide is in color with pictures and have several corporate sponsor pages. The BSA guide looks like a joke in comparison. Camps are only offered from late June through July. They give a very high overview and no specialized camps. No bussing. Parents or leaders must attend.. and no discount. No corporate advertising... so do businesses still value BSa experience? If I were a busy parent that was not involved in the BSA I would think the GSAUSA is providing the far superior experience. Perhaps in terms of summer camps.. they may be. While I have been underwhelmed with their program to date, the BSA could learn a lot about improving their camp offerings from the GSUSA especially for the grade school age kids. I’m not sure if this is just my area or national but I was surprised.

In the last district committee meeting I attended I asked if girls could attend the Cub Scout camps the summer of 2018. The individual responsible for the camp stated she asked and it was made clear that girls in Cub Scouts would start in September of 2018. The only official documents I have seen is fall of 2018 so September seems reasonable as the start.

The whole charter argument came up before with the boys club. The Boys Club allowed girls to join since the 1800s but only updated their charter in 1990 when they asked congress to officially update their name and extend the club to girls. Interesting that there was already a Girls Club and they sued to stop the Boys club name change in 1988. After the injunction they Boys Club paid the Girls Club to change their name to Girls Inc http://www.nytimes.com/1990/10/25/garden/when-boys-clubs-meet-girls-clubs.html I wonder if in 5 years we will update our name to The Boy and Girl Scouts of America and pay off the Girl Scouts to rename themselves Girl Guides... history would repeat....