BubbaBear

yaworski is right. Although we want boys in Scouting, they have to be there to learn what is is Scouting teaches. If they can't get with the program. We had a boy who was a Life Scout, SPL and an officer in his JROTC unit at school...he insisted on running the troop like Mussolini. What was worse was that he refused to see the problems it caused. We lost about a third of the troop before we finally gave him the choice to shape up or ship out...he shipped out. Unfortunately, his understudies stayed long enough to destroy the troop.

One more thing I forgot...you might want to give the boys a brief reminder tht meanness and "teasing cliques" are considered "hazing", something that is not tolerated in Scouting...something that can lead to dismissal. I've had to do that, and follow up on it by dismissing a boy who would not stop.

Laura...you've got a problem there. If you want a "team", then you will have to tackle the problem as a team. I've got some questions for ya...first off, if your troop is small, why are you going to two different camps? Sounds as if you are allowing for division of the "team" by attending two camps pretty much independently. Secondly, since the troop is run by the boys, what does your PLC think about the situation? I personally would start by having a ceremony honoring those accomplishments made at camp. I would be sure to have a seperate set of awards honoring those "model" campers, the ones whom made the effort to win the "honor troop" award although they didn't. You may even want to create a standing "Teamworker Award" to encourage such behavior. Remember that the destrcutive behavior should be held to Scout Spirit when it comes to promotion in rank. Be sure to give your SPL all the support he needs. Ultimately it should be his and his staff's decision as to how to deal with this problem. If you adults get too involved, you will take away the boys "ownership" of the troop, something you don't want to do. If the situation becomes unbearable, it may require action on the part of the Troop Committee.

Thanks fellas...a non-scouting friend of mine sent that to me...I modified it slightly. Tried it out on a bunch of boys I worked with today, they loved it. BTW, acco...sarcasm is my middle name!

An Indian water bearer had two large pots, each one hanging from the ends of a pole which he carried across his shoulders. One of the pots had a crack in it, while the other was perfect and always returned a full amount of water.At the end of the long walk from the stream to the village, the cracked pot always arrived only half full. For two years, this went on daily, with the bearer delivering only one-and-a-half pots of water to the village. Of course the perfect pot was proud of its accomplishments, knowing that it always returned a full pot of water. The cracked pot, on the other hand, was ashamed of its imperfection, and miserable because it could only do half of what it made to do. After two years, it finally found the nerve to speak to the Indian bearer, down by the stream. "I'm ashamed of myself", the pot said, "and I want to appologize to you. I have been able to deliver only half the water because this crack in my side causes the water to leak out all the way to the village. Because of my flaw, you have to do more work, and you don't get the full value for your efforts." The bearer replied, "Did you notice that there were beautiful flowers only on your side along the path to the village? That's because I have always known about your flaw, and I planted flower seeds on your side of the path. Every day we walk from the stream to the village, you've watered them. For two years now, I have been able to pick these flowers and enjoy them with all the other villagers. Without you being just the way you are, there would be no beautiful flowers to brighten up our days." Each of us has our own unique flaws. We are all cracked pots, but is is these cracks and flaws that make life interesting and rewarding. Accept people for what they are, look for the good in each of them.

Rooster7... I agree with you. If there is one thing I insist on it is respect. Of course, respect is best learned thru example. In the "Take off your hat" example, a simple "Please" added would have shown that respect for the adult. In the matter of the hat indoors,it is the same thing; a matter of respect (or courtesy) which many have forgotten. I have always understood that the hat remains on when serving on the color guard, or under arms. Obviously, the latter does not apply in Scouting.

I have to agree with K9...we do not do enough in the way of public relations. When I was Scoutmaster, I made a point of getting the boys to do things in the public's eye. I've even gotten state, county and city officials to attend ceremonies. The local United Way just cut funding with the "reason" that we are not visible. Sure it may be an excuse, but the truth of the matter is "we aren't". My troop got in the local news at least five or six times in a year and a half. Newspapers sell news. Make some and I'm sure they will respond. Troutmaster, you live in an area that is nationally notorious for (forgive me) the wierd, unexpected and shocking. Maybe it is a blessing that you don't get into the news?

The best thing about Woodbadge for me was that I got a new commitment to the concept of Boy Scouting. Also, it gave me the opportunity to work with six other people in demonstrating how cooperation with totally unfamiliar people can lead to success. By the way, if Baden Powell actually had a favorite patrol, he surely would have changed his mind seeing the Bears of SE326:)

OGE... A thought just occurred to me...since you haven't been through Woodbadge before, you obviously got your name from somewhere else...just think, we might have to start calling you Ole Grey Buffalo:) ...or if you are really lucky...Ole Grey Bear! In regards to the ticket thing, you may find that once you have left Woodbadge, you will want to change your ticket to better match what you are currently doing in Scouting...sit back, enjoy and take it as it comes! Best Wishes.

rlculver415... Don't give up hope brother. Did you know that you can go to other councils for training? Matter of fact, if you let me know what training you want, I will send you all the info you need to "Come on Down" to SW Florida and get it! After all, your only a hop, skip and a jump from here. I believe wholeheartedly in training. I've attended Scoutmastership Fundamentals, Woodbadge, have a Doctorate from our University of Scouting Arts, and am working towards a degree from our College of Commissioner Science. I'll leave out all the smaller taining I've done. Mamafox is right on the mark: volunteer to train someone. It could be the most important thing you could share with other adults in Scouting. Caution: Make the training fun, we adults are no more than big kids:)

buffalo2, Our Council, Southwest Florida, has modeled after a true university. Our University of Scouting Arts (USA) participants work towards "degrees" in either the College of Scouting Arts or the College of Commissioner Science. As in a real college, each "student" signs up for classes which include required courses and electives. New "experimental classes" are created each year and presented as elective classes. Once you have completed degree requirements for a particular college, you are awarded a diploma in a "graduation ceremony". It is possible to complete requirements in one weekend session, but to earn the Doctorate Degree (Phd), four years of attendance must be completed with all degree requirements and either a Thesis or Project completed for the Phd. Attendance has been increasing ever since its conception. Because some classes are deemed "required", they are generally the most attended ones. They include Cub, Boy Scout and Venturing topics and can be specialized in. Experimental classes can become required or permanent elective classes, depending on attendance and interest. Scouting magazine will be publishing an article this coming Spring about our USA. Bubba

When I started this thread, it was so that I could get an idea as to what the general consensus of opinion was on this debating this issue on the internet. The only people whom responded thus far are the same ones whom voiced their opinion over and over again. Furthermore, I specifically asked for no debate here, but the same ones must occupy air time with their personal struggles. Quiote, I do not know where you decided that I was pro-gay in Scouting, I have stated the opposite time and again. My "argument" with Bob White has turned sour. I proposed a compromise so that the two of us would not continue it on "on the air". Why is it important that any of the rest of you get involved with our personal argument? I appreciate the fact that debate is "wholesome". This debate, however, is not. As I had said earlier, I advocate "local decision making" over "national decision making". I think it best that I let you all "have your fun" at the expense of those whom are in this for more simplistic reasons. Bob White, no need to respond to my compromise proposal, you stand your ground, it is the right thing to do. The same for the rest of you. I hope to meet you all someday in an atmosphere that is conducive to the Scouting Program. BubbaOstrich

On another note...I asked a very simple question, looking for a very simple answer...look what I got. Am I THAT provocative, or is it that some of you just need to get away from debating a subject that does not have an outcome appealing to all? THIS WAS A RHETORICAL QUESTION...DO NOT ANSWER!!

Bob White... I posed a compromise to you...if you or Rooster stop debating this issue in this forum, then I will agree to stop also. I got no direct response from you or Rooster. My continuance to post is a result of not getting a direct response; and frankly I haven't debated the subject since offering the compromise to you all. You say that YOU are having a hard time accepting my sincerity on this subject??? Funny, I was thinking the same of you. Your compromise sounds more like sarcasm to me; thus my "antagonizing " remark. If my comments sounded harsh, that is because they were meant to be. You asked me why I attacked you personally, and I responded with a quick appology. You and I would be better off not communicationg with each other because we do not communicate with each other. You and I need to stop being so suspicious of each other. I do not doubt your integrity, and consequently, you should not doubt mine. Now, if you wish to accept my compromise, I will discuss yours. Bubba (This message has been edited by BubbaBear)

Packsaddle...Sorry! I had a sub-senior moment. That was supposed to be an agreement with your statement...I got off on a wild tangent.