swilliams

Thats kind of how we do it in our troop.

Thanks. It was before my boys joined - four years ago for my older son, two for the younger. I was guessing at a rough time-frame and obviously way off. Thats what happens when you get old. 1995 seems like it was a couple years ago! It was definitely Summit. We had a PLC meeting two years ago and were discussing HA trips, and where the scouts wanted to go. Not a single vote for WV; evenly split between Philmont, Sea Base, and repeating a past trips to the Grand Canyon and Costa Rica. Which brings up the point that although Scout-owned bases are easier to attend for planning purposes, it wouldn’t mean the end of high adventure if we didn’t have them.

I’m not a great letter-writer. I do wonder if a petition would do any good, and I would happily sign my name to a statement saying I could care less about keeping Summit. I mentioned upthread a ways that our troop went once - it would have been around 2005 or 2006 - and we never went back again. Maybe the ‘improvements’ changed it for the better, but we’ve chosen Sea Base and Philmont on a rotating basis every three years (with a less-expensive option in the third year). Might be too little, too late, particularly after BSA’s opening offer, but if someone does start a petition I’ll circulate it as far and wide as possible.

This is kind of what I mean by ‘what ifs’. It’s too soon to tell what exactly will happen, but it’s not too soon to come up with a list of questions we’d like to try and find answers to. From the provided list, our council has a couple hundred cases. There’s going to be SOME kind of major change happening, regardless of what form it takes. Troop issues, too, like what happens to Troop property in the event BSA ceases to exist? Trailers, canoes, camping equipment, any cash in the bank, etc. Can another organization be formed to purchase our summer camp if council is disbanded? Outside our Troop’s control, what happens to the camps that our council runs, but doesn’t own?

If BSA liquidates and ceases to function, do councils have the ability to proceed with the program? Does the program still exist? Of course troops can still get together for activities, and I would hope ours does. But, for example, if my older boy can somehow earn Eagle before BSA shutters and his younger brother wanted to follow, can council or the troop confer Eagle rank without a National organization to recognize it? I don’t know that he would care whether it was “sanctioned” or not. Just a thinking out loud thought.

Agree that it’s perhaps premature to send out a letter to parents. I have contacted our SM and CC. We’re setting up a meeting for this weekend so we can start planning out our ‘what ifs’.

How/where did you find the information about claims for your council?

I can only speak for myself, and tell you about the YPT that is given (if you haven't taken it yourself). YPT teaches about more than just abuse, but I'll tell you that on the specific topic of grooming, it's covered and explained pretty well. It's been a year since I took it, but I definitely recall the program using an example of the abuser getting to know the family to build trust, then offering tickets to a baseball game, starting with small, innocuous gestures like putting a hand on the scout's shoulder, then building from that. It's so gradual, that the scout is trusting of the abuser by then, and if the person is someone your parents accept, that YOU accept, that's where much of the power comes from. It makes it confusing for the scout, and adds the idea that other adults won't believe any accusations, plus the scout has come to like the person. Very complex, and why the first rule of YPT is to never allow one-on-one in scouting. I can also tell you that our Troop takes YPT very seriously, and doesn't short-cut. To the point that it's made things difficult, particularly when scouts working on their Eagle project are having a hard time getting two registered adults for their work days. We now ask that both parents of a scout working toward Eagle register with the Troop. The Troop will help pick up the cost of the registration, if needed.

It's also very troubling that someone who is involved in scouting refuses to acknowledge the way in which many abusers form the kind of relationships that allow them to get close enough to begin the abuse. A child is made to feel like they encouraged the behavior, leading to the belief it's their fault, and that no one can or will help them. Edited to add: the concept of grooming is part of YPT. If you (general you, not quoted 'you') are a leader, you took that training. Why would you blow it off?

The mom of Scout One told us (me, SM and CC) after the school notified her that her son had been named in a HIB. She thought we ought to know since Scout Two had said this occurred during a Troop meeting. Are you thinking she may not be telling the truth about it? Of course, the school cannot, and should not, confirm or deny, nor would I ask them. I suppose I could just resign my position, then I wouldn't have anybody bothering me about it. 😄

Our Troop went to Summit once, before my time. Says something that they haven't been back since. In discussing some of this with our CC and SM, they think our Council owns only one of the three properties in their operation. I tried to verify that, and couldn't actually find anything concrete providing that information. How hard is it going to be for National to pull all this together? I would think they'd already have a list of what councils own, but maybe not?

I coach cross-country and track for grades 4-8. BSA's YPT is better in terms of material covered and instruction on protection from abuse than the USATF's 'Safe Sports' program (which includes instruction on sports injuries and motivation issues). There's very little occasion, at least at this level, for abuse to occur. I don't think lack of clarity is as much an issue as lack of oversight or method of insuring each unit actually puts into practice the YPT. As to how you do that....

Reviving this old thread because this issue is still ongoing. Not only are things not better, they're worse. I've tried to stay out of it, as I'm not SM. The only reason I was (am) involved at all is because my son is friendly with this group, despite being a year younger, and I was one of two Troop leaders who hiked the 70 miles for Hiking MB with this group. As a result, their parents have involved me, even as I've referred them to the SM. The SM spoke to both sets of parents, and we thought things were being settled. Fast forward to early February. We found out that Scout One filed a HIB (harassment, intimidation, bullying) report with the school at the beginning of this whole mess, and because they had both used school email in their exchanges, the school found Scout Two guilty of the offense. In February, Scout Two then filed a HIB report against Scout One, but said that the offense occurred during a scout meeting. The school refused to get involved, as this was outside of school and not on school grounds. However... Although nothing is being done by the school, the Troop is being called out. As a group, we're skeptical of the second charge; leadership has been watching the two very closely. The SM has lost all patience with the issue. The last action was that the Committee decided that for the next few meetings we would ask Scout Two's father or mother to be present. He had a SM Conference where he told the SM that everything was fine, and repeated the same to the Committee members on his BOR. Well, I know it's not because he left the Troop Meeting immediately after the SM Conference, ostensibly for a Dr. appointment, and he has been a no-show at the last two outings/meetings. Now a third scout has quit the Troop over this ongoing issue. What the heck do we do? I won't take any further steps other than ask for advice here and pass it along. This isn't my Troop to lead, but I don't want to see other scouts quit, or have to deal with this for the next three years until these boys age out. Is there a diplomatic way to encourage Scout Two to join the other Troop in town? Is that a terrible thing to even consider?

We didn't lose any scouts due to Covid, but it absolutely impacted our ability to bring in new scouts. We had one scout drop due to an ongoing fight between two scouts in our Troop (mentioned in another thread, which I might go revive), but another, who had dropped the previous year, decided to sign up again this year in the hopes that we're headed to summer camp. Our Venture Crew numbers are down slightly. We're going on our fifth year, so the girls (all-girl crew) who started the Crew and were super-involved have graduated. Many are away at university, but even those who are remote learning are too busy and didn't renew. It's great they have the option to stay in until age 21, but the reality is that they don't. We have a decent number of sophmores, and a handful of freshmen, but not in the same numbers as the original group who helped get this Crew off the ground. One thing we've started doing - and by 'we' I mean both Troops in our town (same CO), as well as the girls' Troop and the Crew (same CO in a different town) - is to utilize social media more. We're making more of an effort to take pictures to post on community forums and to write articles for local news. We'll see if it helps at all this year.

I debated whether to laugh at this, or not. So far, our Council says summer camp is a go. I sure hope so. Getting the units active again will be SO important.

I upvoted this yesterday, but came back to it to add a comment. I agree - mostly. Service can be evaluated as part of Scout Spirit, and could be folded into the SM Conference. At the same time, having specifics laid out helps in a couple ways. Some SMs may not be comfortable telling a scout he doesn’t think they have earned their next rank due to something that would be subjective. What constitutes enough service? It also gives a scout a concrete goal that he/she can plan for. Particularly helpful as they get older and may have a lot of obligations pulling them different directions. Side note: Our Troop gives bronze, silver, and gold challenge coins for service. Many of our scouts earn the bronze level, 50 hours, by the time they age out. They don’t do it for the coins, but it’s a nice recognition. Silver is 75; gold is 100.

A funny anecdote: we've been buried in snow here in NJ for a while. We still can't meet indoors, so we'd planned on holding our latest COH at an outdoor amphitheater. A few days before the COH, with the area still buried in snow, the SM called on the scouts to come help shovel the snow away from the benches and stage, and clear a couple paths to get into the area. A bunch of scouts showed up and did the clearing. The amphitheater is next to a nature museum, and the director of some of the children's programs there, when she found the area cleared, told our SM that with the area cleared, the museum could resume outdoor classes that had been halted because the area was inaccessible. So... after the fact, he gave two hours of not-so-easy-to-get conservation hours to the scouts that showed. Taught a lesson to a couple who needed the conservation hours, but couldn't be bothered to show up for what they thought was non-service for our own Troop. 🤣

A national BSA contribution to the Trust that includes a significant portion of national BSA’s unrestricted, non-core assets that are not subject to liens of its secured lender. A loan from the National Boy Scouts of America Foundation to the BSA to provide the BSA with sufficient working capital following emergence from bankruptcy. A contribution of at least $300 million from local councils to the Trust. I'm not sure what I was expecting to see from that statement, but am left struggling for words. No wonder BSA has gotten such a negative reaction, and it isn't just because of the dollar amount. I can't write persuasively to save my life, so should probably keep my mouth shut, but this comes across as something slapped together by the same people who write the captions for those cheesy office posters about 'Teamwork!' or the like. As someone whose entire family is involved in scouts, the quoted part above makes me more than a little upset. I realize BSA wants to preserve assets so it can continue offering scouting, but (to use a phrase from my kids) Duuuude... National will contribute its "non-core assets", and will get a loan, but then will ask councils to give up their core assets? As much as my kids are (were?) looking forward to going to Philmont, they are much more concerned that our council's wilderness camp will no longer be an option. They're already devastated that it was closed last summer due to Covid. They love that mosquito-infested, bear-prowling, loon-calling, scout-cooking place.

Our Troop's Eagle COH's don't actually have much to do with the Troop, other than the scouts are encouraged to attend and the Eagle scouts will ask for participants. It's typically a group of parents who do the organizing and planning, usually once there are three or more Eagle scouts to combine a ceremony for. Without knowing your relationship with the SM, I'll add my two cents on the issue of whether service gets awarded/approved for this by the SM. I'm also our Troop's Advancement Chair, and don't always agree 100% with the SM's decisions as they pertain to advancement. Unless I felt like it was something egregious, I wouldn't bring it up formally at a Committee before talking it out with the SM. If you already have and it sounds like that might be the case, rather than fight the awarding of service hours (which, btw, would not be given by our Troop in this case), try approaching the issue of what types of service should be counted going forward. I would say something like, 'Can we have a quick talk/meeting to discuss service projects going forward? It would be good to have clear-cut guidelines, both for me and for the scouts. I don't want to send contradictory messages if a scout asks for his progress record or what he still needs for his next rank in terms of service hours.' Then it's not about this one event.

So that sounds like a 'no' to my question. Having followed a couple court cases on other issues (as best I can without any real legal knowledge), I'm aware that court proceedings are never quick. Are there other issues standing in the way of the insurer's motion being denied or granted?

I haven't read through this entire thread. Has the motion in the link been ruled on?

I think many of us have similar questions about the number of claims, but are going to be very cautious about expressing them. The last thing anyone needs is a bunch of current scouters seeming to be shrugging away or minimizing the damage that was done. Yeah, that's what BSA's offer seems to do, but it doesn't mean those of us on the ground shouldn't be more aware.

Our Troop is considering climbing/rappelling along the Shawangunk Mountain range. So far, the only "real" campground we've found is run by the Alpine Club, and the charge is $38 per site (for non-members), with a maximum of 4 people per site. That would put the cost for the camping at a minimum of $190, if we have a typical turnout. While we've paid fees like this in the past for camping, this trip would include a guided climbing lesson, which is already a fairly large expense compared to our usual campouts. Is anyone here familiar with that area? Are there alternate places to camp? The nearest council-owned camp isn't all that close (Tri-Mountain Council). I put a call in to them anyway, and am waiting to hear back as to whether they are allowing group camping, but haven't heard back yet.

This is what we've been doing. Carpooling is discouraged and our state doesn't want the cooking equipment shared, so it ends up being 'camp with your family in an area where there may be other families with scouts in your Troop'. Not a fan, even though I love camping and have been to a significant number of trips pre-Covid as an adult leader, but... if that's what it is for now, so be it.

There are also those of us who have been infected already, and are waiting to see what observation and studies say about extended immunity, and who want to see if any longer-term effects start to show up. At this point, having already had Covid, I have no intention of getting the vaccine. That may change; it may not. For full disclosure, I have a relative who was vaccine-injured. This doesn't mean my family and I are anti-vaxx, or deniers, or any other delightful names we've been called. My children are all vaccinated with the exception of not having been given the rotavirus or HPV vaccines. But we're cautious, and tend to base decisions on likely effects of both illness and vaccine, efficacy, and other related issues. At this point, it's moot for my kids, as they are 16, 14 and almost 13 (a few more days). But I would like to kindly suggest those out there, as passionate as you may be, to please temper the urge to call those who choose NOT to take the vaccine 'deniers' or 'anti-vaxxers'.