bearess

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the stickers. I'm a den leader for Lions, and I taught elementary school for ten years. Kids that age love stickers. My Lions are very proud of them and look forward to receiving them. The whole BSA system for recognition is really just giving kids a small token to recognize an accomplishment- belt loops, patches, pins, stickers. It's all the same! At our Blue and Gold I gave each of my Lions a pin with a Lion on it to wear on their shirts or jackets. They love it, and it's free recruitment- we've picked up one new member in less than a month as a result! They also know they're working towards their Lion badge in the spring. We've also decided to let Lions participate in the Derby- they're racing in their own class. I can't think of any other Pack event they'd be excluded from??

Add me to those who can't get too upset over a little potty humor. A little bit is funny. Too much isn't. Same with violence- if the joke isn't about someone being hurt, it can be a part of a skit. Obviously making someone's suffering the butt of your joke isn't funny.

I think integrating kids into Boy Scouts early is key. The break between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is a natural time to evaluate if you want to stick with a program. By making that break less distinct, you're going to increase retention.

You briefly mentioned not wanting to go the Girl Scout route. Why is that?

Two main topics here-- first of all, I don't think Scouting was ever meant to prepare for a situation where 'the world of today' has vanished. My ex-FIL was the head of Red Cross disaster management for his region for 20 years or so. He ran LOTS of shelters in his day! And, sure- he may have used some Scoutcraft skills. But, much more than that, he used interpersonal skills and organizational skills. We were without power for 13 days after Hurricane Irene. Did I make a campfire most nights and use a camp stove for coffee? Sure. But, when I volunteered for the Cross, I spent my time going door to door, helping people with paperwork to be reimbursed for spoiled food. All of this is to say that, sure, survival skills are fine. But working with people is much more important. I think scouting's goal is to teach the people skills thru outdoor skills. As to the adventure and adapting to the times- some adaptation is necessary. Times change. Merit badges should reflect that. Building off what others have said though- a lot of what the BSA defines as adventure is what I'd call 'adult facilitated adventure'. A zip line or a climbing wall or a high adventure trip is really, really fun! But it's not actually something young boys can achieve on their own. What they can achieve on their own sounds boring on paper- they can get to a campsite and camp. Cook their food, hike/canoe. I think Scouts has gotten away from that model, which is too bad. That's something boys can achieve almost I dependently from age 11 or so. I think BSA need to be aware of what feels really cool to adults vs what boys can achieve independently.

I think the difference between Scouts and sports is the nature of the activity. My son plays baseball/hockey- and, sure, he meets new kids on his teams. But when they are practicing/at games, they aren't really socializing. They're there to play a sport. Sure, The chat here and there- but that's not the purpose of the activity. Scouts- especially camping/hiking/biking/whatever else-ing- is naturally more social. There's more downtime. So friendships are more important. It's the same for adults- I play women's league hockey. When I signed up, I didn't ask friends to go with me- I realized I missed playing hockey, found a local woman's league, and joined. I also camp a lot- I do that with girlfriends and their kids or my boyfriend. It's a more social thing.

What everyone else said. Let his parents know they can work on the award at home if they want, but there's no pressure. He gets his loops and Bobcat, everyone is happy. I would tell him to just buy a tan shirt. There's no way I'd spend the $ on a blue shirt for such a short amount of time.

I think Stosh brings up good logistical YP points. I'm not familiar with fireside Girls, but how would the leader situation work? Would you have one leader for the boys and one for the girls? What happens if the FG leader wants to do something that has no equivalent in Scouts? Will each kid get awards from their own leader? Won't that make meetings drag on? As they get older, what happens if one group is allowed, per their organizations policy, to do something the other one isn't? I understand the appeal of having a program for your girls at the same time as the boys. But this feels like it's going to end up with the FG being an 'add-on' that will, almost inevitably, get less attention. I'd look into forming a separate group that gets together with the Cubs for regular events- hikes, picnic, family camp, etc. Like a sister troop.

I completely agree with Cambridgeskip about the origins. Scouting was started as a single gender program because of when and where it started. Organizations for middle and upper class men were single sex. I'm certain that, once he left the nursery, BP was educated and worked in single sex environments. That was his world. I understand some feel that letting in females 'lessens' the program for boys in some ways. I'd be OK with that if I felt the commensurate benefits for girls outweighed that. I'm just not convinced it does. One thing I've thought about a lot lately is how boys/men figure out who they are and how to act when they are with other men. I think that often, when we're around the opposite sex, there is a performative aspect. For some people, this is more pronounced. I do think, though, that spending time with our own gender is an important part of how we define ourselves. For women, there are so many opportunities to do this. I can go out for a drink with a girlfriend, chat while our kids play, call a friend, play women's league hockey, go to a bachelorette party, etc. Few men seem to do this- a "guys night out" has rowdy connotations. I know few, if any, men who would meet another man for a cup of coffee and a chat. Scouts gives boys a way to do this, and a way to define themselves as men without an undercurrent of ogling women/drunkenness/general debauchery. When we get rid of those opportunities, I think we lose something significant. For comparison, my ex went to an all-male college. It was four years of drinking and sleeping with anyone he could. It was all male, sure, but there was no structure around what that means.

Yes, troop 4 had the same CO. CO makes no difference to us. It's the fire dept. I don't even know who the CO is for the other troops. My son can start walking there as soon as he joins! He walks there now for planning meetings/to the grocery for supply shopping when he's camping with them. As far as I'm concerned, that's a HUGE benefit!

I've lurked for a while, and commented on some threads, so I thought I should introduce myself! I have two sons, a 5 yo and a 9 yo. We live in a small town in New England. My 9 y/o is a AOL Cub, and my 5 y/o is a Lion. I'm the Lion den leader. I've lurked long enough to know the Lion program isn't popular here, but he's loved it! .

Glad to hear others feel as I do! I feel like troop one is the best, obvious choice. I guess they don't all have to cross over together- I suspect that 3-4 of the boys (including my son) would prefer/choose troop 1. The other thing is that we live in an area with a lot of small towns- the troops that are a 15-20 minute drive away pull from different school districts. So there's no way he would ever see those kids outside of Scouts. C goes to a private school, so that issue doesn't impact him. Troop 1 has also long operated on a model of doing one big trip/summer-- Grand Canyon, Boundary waters, etc. So that's really appealing to my son.

So, my older son is an AOL, and his group is starting to visit troops 'unofficially'- camping with them, etc. I suspect he'll end up with four choices, all of which are not great for different reasons. Ultimately, he'll choose, but there are a few variables I'd like to have others thoughts on so he and I can discuss them. His AOL den is about seven boys. All, or nearly all, of them plan to cross over to Boy Scouts. He is particularly close to one boy, and friendly with all of them. One boy, C, is the son of the current den leader, M. M is a very, very involved parent. His son is still very young for his age, and very dependent on his father for everything. It's frustrating to my son, particularly when they are camping with a troop and C doesn't help, father does everything. C doesn't eat with everyone else, his father brings him separate meals. C doesn't participate in all activities, only ones his father OKs. Etc. So, troops. Troop 1 is located in our town. It's nearby, meets within walking distance. My son knows and likes the boys in it. Our pack has fed into this troop in recent years. However, his current den leader, M, doesn't like the ASM. I think he'll discourage the boys from choosing this troop. The troop is small, and not getting many (or any) boys this year would be challenging. It could shut down in that situation. Troops 2 and 3 are both located 15-20 minutes away. My son doesn't know many/any boys well in them. He hasn't enjoyed spending time with them as much. I suspect his current den leader will prefer the boys to go to one of those. Option 4 is trying to revive the Troop initially associated with the Pack, which shut down four or five years ago. It would be just these boys, at least initially. The issue there is that current DL would surely be SM. My son is done with him/frustrated by his babying his son, and I don't see it changing. So.....thoughts? More questions? Anything I'm overlooking?

I lead the Lion den, and my son is a Lion. He's a gregarious, enthusiastic kid as it is, and being inscouts with his mom as a leader exacerbates it. I've given him 'talk tokens'- he gets eight beads at the beginning of a meeting. When he wants to talk, he gives me a bead. It works well and makes him think about when to talk and when not to. I also find that calmly dealing with issues helps. He was crying during Blue and Gold B/c he didn't get a pen from friends of scouting. I asked him to sit down and he did. It was embarrassing for me, but there was nothing to be done about it.

I agree that there needs to be thought and planning around what to do if a youth transitions back to their assigned gender. As far as YPT, I think two deep leadership would cover you in any situation. The period/breast talk is overblown. Most young men who have or are transitioning are working with a doctor on puberty suppression. As for the kids... I can't speak for everybody's kids. However, I think we are over estimating how much they care. My sons' PE teacher was born female, and has fully transitioned to living as a man. They know about the transition because he grew up in this community. He also was roommates with my sisters' boyfriend. They do not care. He's a fantastic PE teacher- they care that they get to play a tag game for warmup, that they get to do a juggling unit, that they get their "toe tokens" for engaging in physical activity at home. A girl on my son's hockey team has asked the other kids to refer to him as a boy. My son doesn't care. He cares if he passes, if he moves the puck down the ice, if he scores. Oh, and the kid is an amazing dancer. My son is jealous of his sweet moves during their warmup mixtape. I suspect that, without adult interference, most kids will do that. If adults focus on delivering a quality program, the kids will figure out a lot of the other stuff.

YeAh, I remember the story about the kids in MD, and I've read other stories about parents being arrested/charged for leaving kids alone or unsupervised. I just can't help but wonder if there is more to the story than we are reading. I seem to remember that, the first time the kids in MD were picked up, they had crossed a four lane highway alone. It wasn't like they were just wandering around their neighborhood. Regardless, I'm sure, on average, kids today do have fewer freedoms. It's just hard to square that with my own experience, which is that my kids (and many of their friends) have a lot of freedom.

Sure, the homework is the kids' responsibility. But I don't think some parental checkins are unreasonable. When my son gets home, I ask if he has homework. He says yes or no, I say "Be sure it gets done by dinner". I don't think that's unreasonable. I also,look over his homework and work with him if he's having trouble in an area. Again, I think that's reasonable, responsible parenting. I'm not doing the work for him. I'm providing him the support he needs to do his best work. As for the entitlement/best friend thing- Yeah. It gets old. My expectation of my kids is that they take no gracefully and are able to function as members of a community. That means, a lot of the time, they don't get exactly what they want! I get so frustrated, though, when their teachers/coaches/Cubmaster constantly let the other kids who are louder and more obnoxious do what they want, while my kids get ignored because they are polite.

Well worded statement, and so much better than dragging it out for 15 years. I'm sure this has been happening to some degree for the past 10-15 years, just 'under the radar'. I'm 100% sure I've never provided a copy of my sons birth certificates to BSA. I suspect that children who identify as boys have been registering locally as boys and nobody has known or said anything. This is the right thing to do and the right time to do it.

I'm always torn in the idea that kids have lost so many liberties and freedoms. My sons are 5 and 9. They walk to school alone, go to the playground alone. I work from home, and they know they aren't to come home till 3:45 (school ends at 2:45). For that hour, they're responsible for themselves- they play/sled on the playground, walk to the bank for a lollipop, go to the library, whatever. That's the case for many of my older sons' friends. My older son can go to the store alone (obviously just for a few things) and run other little errands. He can ride his bike anywhere in town. I've never had anyone question any of that. Obviously, we live in a small town- and I do work with him more than my parents did. For example, before he could ride his bike alone, we biked a few places together with him ahead of me so I could be sure he was really solid on hand signals and parked cars. I don't remember my parents doing that. Same with walking to school- he's walked alone since second grade, but I walked with him the first time to be sure he followed traffic rules. I can't help but think that the idea that kids have no freedoms today is a bit overblown.

I, personally, can't see the Trump administration having much interest or impact on the Scouts. Interestingly, Bernie Sanders speaks of his time in scouting with a great deal of respect and affection- I e heard him say on several occasions the value of the love for the outdoors and the moral code that Scouting instilled in him. We saw him once at a local pizza place after a Cub meeting- my older son was in his uniform still. Of course we were excited to see été Bernie, and waved, but didn't interrupt his group. Afterwards, he came over and chatted to my son about Scouts for a few minutes. Pretty cool!

Enh, I have a Webelos I- I can't get too worked up over this. My son has done nearly all the work on his cars himself- and it is still a lot of work for me! I walk with hi. to our Pack woodworking night, help himselect the right tools show him how to use the tools, talk to him about the design he wants, go with him to get the paint, make suggestions on how to paint/what designs will work, take him to a friend's workshop to put on the wheels, give suggestions on how to get the wheels tight, buy graphite, etc. No scout is making his own car with no adult guidance. Now, I see kids who are clearly not making their own car at all- and that's different. But no one is sending a 9 year old out with a block of wood with no guidance either!