bearess

I mean, ultimately, what happens in my house is my legal responsibility. What happens at camp is BSA’s responsibility. It makes sense. Although, last night we were chatting about this, and counted it all up— between coaching soccer, hockey, and Little League, umping Little League, helping with church youth group, and going on field trips, BF has had nine background checks since moving in with me! He did all the same stuff with his 24 y/o daughter— not one background check. Times have changed!

Yeah, as I think about it, two deep leadership should apply to him, and I’d assume he can’t tent with my son. He’s not my son’s Guardian, and I’m listed on all emergency contact info.

This is a bit embarrassing, but..... Who is allowed to accompany a Wolf cub to residential summer camp? Does it have to be a parent? Background: My younger son is currently a Wolf. I’m divorced, and he rarely sees his father. My boyfriend and I live together and have since my son was three. My son calls him dad, and people at Cub Scouts have just sort of assumed that BF is his dad. I’ve never corrected them. My older son is a Boy Scout, so this assumption has gone on for a long time! I’m also the Wolf Den Leader. Most people in our lives assume he’s my sons’ father— he moved in when my older son was in second grade and starting at a new school. At some point, it became clear that my sons didn’t like me to correct people about their assumptions, so I stopped doing it. Certainly close friends— including some Scouts, but not the Cubmaster or anyone in leadership— know he’s not their father. It isn’t a state secret. However, most casual acquaintances assume he’s their dad. My boyfriend is accompanying my son to residential summer camp. He’s filled in all the paperwork, etc— but should I give the camp and Cubmaster a heads up that he isn’t my son’s Dad?!? I would feel awkward doing so, at this point, but I’d rather be clear upfront, if needed. Or does it not matter?

I had the same thought, but perhaps his user name is in reference to something else? I agree, I would be concerned about someone who wasn’t taking responsibility for his actions.

Nobody here can answer that. You’re going to have to apply and find out. I’d sit down for a cup of coffee with the committee chair and explain it all to him, including any steps you’ve taken towards rehabilitation. Four years is a long time between charge and conviction, it seems. I’d explain the reason for that, too.

Echoing everyone else— you need a designated sibling watcher in another part of the room or another room altogether. Could your husband watch them in a public place, like a playground? Is there something like that within walking distance of your meeting place? If not, they need an activity. And, as I say to substitute teachers, Justice needs to be swift and sure. Tell the siblings they can’t participate yet. If they go over to the group, tell them no, and bring them back to the sibling group. They’ve obviously gotten accustomed to being able to participate as much as they want, and breaking that habit will be hard.

This year, in my Tiger Den, I had a kid who was pretty awkward. His den mates were fine, but I knew he was having a few issues with other kids. I pulled them aside (both were Bears) and told them I’d heard some dreadful news! Someone was picking on one of my Tigers! I played it up, said I came to them because they were so responsible, etc. Asked them to be my “bully patrol”, and we practiced the way they would discreetly come and find me if there were any problems. Lo and behold, the bullying stopped. The trouble is, though, that takes the leaders buy in. I’d say, as a teacher, I wouldn’t label a kid that young as socially awkward— lots of kids seem weird but then they turn it around. Maybe by next year things will have changed a bit.

Hmm. I want to say this kindly. It seems like your son struggles a bit in social situations— Scouts and school are mentioned as being difficult for him. I appreciate that you want to help him grown and build those skills. However, I’d look at ways you can do that within this pack. Nothing you’ve mentioned sounds too egregious, and it might be really good for him to see that he can work through difficulties. you say the problems happen when he’s with the whole Pack. Can you stick closer to him at those times? Or make sure there are more structured activities in place? Also, can you help him figure out how to handle these situations? Don’t just tell him what to do, but give him the chance to role play and try it out. I don’t think he should stay ina terrible situation, but I’d try to work it out before I encouraged changing packs.

Don’t you think it’s most likely they just forgot to pack pajamas? I went to the beach last weekend and forgot to pack a swimsuit for my youngest son! It happens. I didn’t think it was “appropriate”for him to swim in his clothes, I was just busy, laid his swimsuit on the dresser, and forgot to throw it in the bag. We have transgender youth at my school— I believe in gym they use the single locker room (added in the eighties for handicap accessibility). I’m not sure, though. It has happened enough that there are norms in place. Interestingly, we recently had step up day, where kids meet their teachers for the next year. I noticed quite a few kids wearing name tags with their name and preferred pronoun (I teach in a 7-12 school). None of the kids brought it up as odd that they were asked that by a teacher. I live in a liberal area, and kids do not seem remotely phased by different gender identities.

Maybe you’re right, who knows! I feel my time in Girl Scouts gave me confidence and a unique, all-girl experience. I’m glad I had that. I wish more units did outdoor stuff in GSUSA, and I hope programs like this will help that happen. I agree that kids learn from watching adults struggle and grow, and I think there’s a lot of value in that. I don’t think you have to be an expert canoer or hiker or camper to go with your son in a scouting trip. However, when you’ve been in a canoe once in the past seven years (an hour on a small lake) and spent one night in a tent in that time— I question if you’re the right fit for a two week canoe camping trip. It’s not my problem— I’ll let the SM know and he can do what he wishes with the info!

So, my son’s Troop currently has an informal all girls patrol— they attend meetings and seem to function as a patrol. They are not, to my knowledge, camping with the boys (although some siblings may come with parents?) They will be creating/joining a linked troop in February. That’s all fine. I have my private thoughts about jumping the gun, but whatever. One girl is the daughter of, I believe, our DE. He may be the “senior DE”. He attends all meetings she’s at in his uniform, which makes me think he’s there partially in a professional role. We recently got an email saying (among several other things) that, while it is almost impossible for professional Scouters to join Troop Committees, they have received permission and he will be joining the Committee of the current, boy Troop. He’s joining In What I would classify as a “less intense”role— he’s not chair or treasurer. So— why is a paid Scouter joining the Committee frowned on? It doesn’t make a ton of sense, to me.

That’s so unfortunate. It goes back to someone else’s point, that girls will defer to men/boys when it comes to outdoor stuff, even when they shouldn’t or don’t need to. It is so ingrained. I really do think that’s the benefit of a program like Girl Scouts—no, it doesn’t break girls of the habit of deferring to men. But it does give them the confidence to work in breaking the habit! My son’s Troop is doing a canoe trip next summer in the Boundary waters. I know my limits—I’m a confident car camper. I’m not a canoe camper. I’m OK with that. My ex husband is not even a confident car camper— I did all the tent pitching, camp cooking, packing, etc when we were together. He’s taken our boys camping for one night— they got to the campground at 5:00, my son pitched the tent, they went out for pizza, went to bed and left the next morning, with a stop at McDonalds for breakfast! But he is gong ho to go on this canoe trip! I don’t think women suffer from such overconfidence!

Boys need relationships with trusted adults and (slightly) older boys. One thing Ive noticed in my years of teaching is how relationally driven boys are. I also notice it with adult men— their complaints about someone tend to be along the lines of “he’s a jerk”. Whereas women complain more about specific instances.

I teach in Jr/Sr High— the boys are TOLD to shower after gym class, but.......my sense of smell tells me a lot of them are relying on body spray. When I was in HS the girls did not shower after gym or sports. Nobody did it, so nobody wanted to be the one weirdo who started doing it!

Oh, I disagree. I think girls can get a lot of confidence and practice in gaining skills that they would often defer to boys. They then enter the workplace with the confidence needed to succeed. I had a great Girl Scout experience that included a ton of camping. Our leader was a single mother who was pretty overwhelmed— she was incredibly hands off. We were just able to do what we wanted. We planned it on our own, camped on our own, went on several large trips on our own. However, I agree that Girl Scout camping is much more dependent on the specific group. It’s not a universal thing.

After reading through the whoooole thread, the question I’m left with is why people feel confident they would know if a transgendered kid joined their troop. Honestly, you might not. We live in a rural area— my son’s Troop pulls from, I believe, seven different towns. Add in private schools, and you have kids coming from over ten different schools. My son— and the leaders— only know the kids as the gender they present as. If the parent checks “male” on the form, well, that’s that. Nobody would know to question it. Now, yes, if the kid had been a Cub and changed genders, that would be known. But a transgender boy who joins Boy Scouts as a boy? There’s a good chance nobody would even know. A friend of mind from college transitioned to male in his late twenties. He’s married (to a woman), they have a daughter, and theyve moved from the state in which he transitioned. He’s said that the vast majority of people he now knows have no idea he was identified as female at birth. He doesn’t share the fact often (says it just doesn’t come up). I suspect there are a LOT more people like him than you would guess.

Thanks for checking in! It’s going pretty well— they had another campout, CM (who is now an ASM) was there...he apparently didn’t say much to my son but was kind of on another boy in their patrol. Other boy forgot his flashlight and coat and ASM was yelling at him (in my son’s words “ASM was WAY triggered”). My son took the other boy aside, told him to come to son first next time, and they’d solve it as a patrol. It’s so funny, the ASM is a huge advocate for things being boy led, patrol method, and so on. But in practice, he can’t do it at all. His son always tents with him, eats with him, hangs out with him. He can’t or won’t give the boys space to make their own mistakes.

I actually think they are counting on rogue troops to eventually make the case that co-ed troops are fine. It’s a strategy that really seems foolish to me— they’ve put a not-very-practical compromise in place (separate dens/troops) that they know everyone won’t follow to the letter, and then they can use the results from places that don’t follow to the letter to advocate for same Den/Troop. I don’t care for it, frankly.

I also have questions. I try to stay out of Troop stuff— it is much better. My tendency is to worry and nag, and staying away from the Troop lets my son have his own experience! I do know they have female ASMs who are at every event. The girls tent separately. My son says the girls have advancement signed off by the PL, but they can’t get badges. I think, on paper, the girls are Tagalongs, and they will officially join in February. I could be wrong. They don’t collect dues from anyone— the Troop fundraises regularly and all dues are covered. I highly doubt the girls are registered.

So, as mentioned, my father’s cousins were all Scouts Extrordinaire. Five children in the family (six including my dad, who floated between his aunt/uncle and maternal grandparents— they only lived three houses apart). All four boys were Eagles. Daughter was a first class Girl Scout. Mother was a Den Mother for all boys (including my father). Father was a Scoutmaster. They were featured in a Sunday magazine feature in the main newspaper of their state as the “Scoutingest Family in xxxxxx in the mid 1960s (think Indianapolis Star or Des Moines Register). Most of their children (my generation) were also active Scouts, with several of them earning Eagle. Sooooo.....all that said, we went out to dinner with one of my dad’s cousins tonight. We were chatting about Scouts, and my son’s Troop currently having girls. Other than some speculation about what that looks like on paper, his reaction was entirely neutral/positive. He pointed out that all of the skills he gained in Scouting were ones he went on to use with female colleagues/friends/community members. I suspect his brothers all feel the same.

I’ve thought carefully about how I want to respond to this. I’m a single mother— I got divorced when my younger son was three months old. My boyfriend lives with us now, and has for nearly a year. My boys rarely see their father— he lives several states away. I never felt like our family was inferior, nor do I feel that way now. I did, however, have many resources at my disposal that many single parents do not have— I’m well-educated, able to support us on one job, was able to afford high-quality daycare when my kids were younger. I’m confident in my parenting. I have a close circle of friends who I am able to reach out to for both emotional and logistical support when needed. When my boyfriend moved in, my boys and I all grieved the loss of our “trio”. We are very close, and, while I would never say one family is better than another, I do believe the closeness that comes in a single parent family is different. In a Boy Scout context, I’d say my sons are more likely to be comfortable and confident leading (and failing) because they have seen me figure things out. They understand that a failure doesn’t mean you give up, it means you make a better plan and try again. They’ve seen me learn to grill, struggle to keep up with laundry, worry about my job, return to school for a second Masters, etc. I think they see my vulnerabilities more than most children in two-parent homes do— there’s nowhere for me to hide, so to speak. And so they see what it means to share your vulnerabilities and weaknesses and still be loved, respected, and valued. As to the specifics of the Family Life merit badge— enh. My older son is the least motivated Scout (as measured by merit badges and advancement) EVER, and he has begun this badge. He did it in a small group. He said he excused himself to the restroom when they asked each kid to talk about the father’s role. He wasn’t particularly upset by it, but the last time he lived with his father, he was three. He just doesn’t have a lot of thoughts about it. If girls are going to do it, they should probably change it to father/mother. However, it’s not a bad thing for kids to think about. My boys are, realistically, going to be fathers, not mothers. I don’t want them to define that through negatives (“I won’t be like my dad”). I think the badge and the question pushes boys to think about it in a positive sense— what do I want to be like? How/why is that important? I think, if it is broadened to just parent, that specificity of thought is lost.

I’m not completely sure what you want here. It sounds like your boyfriend is free to come to activities, but he has to stay with you— is that right? He’s not banned. It sounds like he planned to go to the event with you for the day and then bring the younger children home for the night. The Cubmaster’s request didn’t make this impossible. I’m sure it was embarrassing— it’s hard to be reminded that he’s still a subject of gossip. But by then refusing to attend when conditions were placed on him, he also contributed to the outcome. You say his son will be a Lion next year— how much better for his son if his dad, who has a history, has already begun the hard work of proving himself to the Pack. You seem very focused on the unfairness of this. Gently, I’d urge you to let that go if possible. Your boyfriend’s worst moment was in the papers. He’s going to have to deal with that and face the consequences, including the social consequences. Why can’t he go to events? Why should his embarrassment and feelings prevent him from supporting your son? If he has changed, the only way for people to j ow that is if he shows them. Refusing to attend events and comply with requests makes it seem like he will only be involved if his past is forgotten or swept under the rug. He’s going to have to come to events, be involved, be positive. That’s how you get people to move on, not by refusing to attend and staying home. I also think you are forgetting how quick this all is. I don’t know when the conviction occurred, but he’s not even off probation. You’ve been together less than a year. I don’t know when his marriage ended, but he has a two year old daughter. In ten years, nobody will think a thing of this. Right now, it’s still very fresh. Be patient.

I’m excited for the inclusion of girls as well. I’m a woman, so clearly not a Boy Scout. I was in Girl Scouts for years, quit in early high school. I was in Explorers in high school. My father and his cousins (his mother died when he was young, lived with his cousins from age 7on) were all Scouts. All 4 of his male cousins were Eagles. My father quit at Star or Life. Currently, I’m a Den Leader.

A new uniform hardly effects the program. The tenderfoot requirements are just to do certain physical tasks (run a mile, stretching, pushups/sit-ups), make a plan for improve,ent, try again in thirty days and show improvement. Physical fitness is basically the same, but your improvement plan lasts twelve weeks. I don’t see any reason that would change for girls. The Family Life merit badge will probably be amended to say parent. I hardly think a one word change to one merit badge is a program change. As I said earlier, my son’s troop has mixed gender patrols now, with the blessing of the CO. I assume in paper they will be two different troops, but in practice it is one troop, three patrols, all mixed gender. None of the boys seem upset. I don’t see any changes to the program. I think you are vastly overestimating how much Scouts care about this.

Well, my son’s Troop (in a rural but very liberal state) already has mixed patrols. And....nothing. No membership,loss, nobody has complained. Son enjoys Scouts, is enthused, and the Troop is growing. It’s been great. They currently have six girls, out of a troop of thirty. I’d add that son has recruited two friends to join— in both cases, their parents expressed concern over the history of Scouts. Sat down with the Scout aster, talked about where the program is and is headed, and signed their sons up. As to what it looks like— I think normal. The Troop is transitioning to Scout-led, which has its hiccups. But the Scouts are learning and growing. They are proud of their accomplishments and motivated to continue. Adding girls has changed nothing, as far as I can see. It was interesting, a few of the leaders were talking about girls coming in, being better leaders/more mature, outshining the boys, being a distraction. One of them asked my son if he thought that would happen. He said “Well, it depends on the girl. Some will, some won’t”. I think that is the perspective of most kids. If the grownups can get out of the way, the kids can handle it fine. Just like camping, cooking, hiking—same principal applies. Let them lead.