4CouncilsScouter

@@George The Corps of Discovery was brought up, and, in short, the response was that it's still an unofficial BSA program. That being said too: "In addition for membership, any VOA Advisor, ADC for Venturing, Crew Advisor, Kodiak Course Director, or Venturing Roundtable Commissioner should be able to select members to the Corps of Discovery. Membership in the Corps should be a compliment to the young person, but not a great big celebration. It is not intended that the Corps become an Honor Society or a form of recognition as a variety of recognition is already in place in the Venturing program. The Corps of Discovery is for people who want to take a leadership role in building Venturing or their organization." From the Corps of Discovery website

This last week at the National Scout Jamboree, the National Venturing Committee fielded two events for the Venturers in Foxtrot Base Camp: a Venturing Town Hall Meeting and Region Venturing Break-Out Meetings. The first of the two was in two parts, an advisors-only session and a youth only-session. I was only able to attend the first one, and here were the major points from it: There is talks of creating an honor society exclusively for Venturing. This idea was thrown out by one of the National committee guys, Kenneth King. In short, this program required applicants to take a pledge of service and then give a set amount of service a year. This was received with very mixed reactions. If given the choice to create a Venturing-only honor society or integrate with the Order of the Arrow, the advisors primarily supported integration. This town hall was not to create any binding decisions but more so to test reactions and gather responses from Venturing leaders in the field. If anyone has any points to add from the meeting (especially the youth meeting), please share.

Confirming @ post. This is what a good friend posted to the 2017 Jamboree Foxtrot Base Camp group. "PLEASE READ CAREFULLY At the Boy Scout National Board Meeting, that just concluded this week, the Chief Scout Executive, Michael Surbaugh, requested that a Task Force be established to study the feasibility of allowing girls to join both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. This would be a shocking reversal from our established tradition but would better reflect today’s society. To repeat, this would only be a study to see the feasibility of girls being integrated into the Boy Scouts. One possible scenario would be: The Charter Organization, (the sponsoring organization) could choose how they would like to organize their unit. Cub Scouts: - a Boy’s only Cub Scout Pack - a Girl’s only Cub Scout Pack - a coed Pack with Boy’s Dens (a smaller unit of 4~ 10) and Girl’s Dens Boy Scouts - a separate organization that is structured like the Boy Scouts for girls - a Troop that would have a Patrol (a small unit of 4 ~ 10) for girls and other patrols for boys. All Patrols in the Troop would participate in the same activities. The Experers, Ventures, Sea Scouts and STEM Scouts could continue to be coed. - This would allow Organizations to identify the options that work best for their communities - Allows flexibility for Chartered Partners - Allows us to introduce Scouting to more families - Allows boys and girls to learn and grow at the pace that is unique to their development Again, this is in the very early stages, the question on the table is, “Should be consider having girls join Boy Scouts, of should we not?†Personally, I am enthusiastic in favor of opening the fun, leadership opportunities, and adventure of Boy Scouts to girls just like all the other scouting organization around the world."

Bear in mind, this was 5 years ago. This was before the crack-down on Venturing/Sea Scouting YPT. Right now, the current dynamics of treating 18-20 year olds as adults has clouded YPT/Training/Program topics in Venturing. To clarify to my previous post, my crew for the first two years looked like this: Five Advisors/Committee Members (Over 21) Three male 14-17 year-olds Two female 18-19 year-olds Two male 18-20 year-olds. Did we know that 18-20 year olds were considered "youth" by the historical YPT standards? Yes. However, the two young women were also members of my council's camp staff and Venturing district committee. If push came to shove, we were on a single-gender crew outing with two council volunteers observing. It was by no means the ideal situation, but we made the best of it.

@@jc2008 I would ask your Scout Executive or Area Training Chair (if one exists) for clarification. Because no formal training exists for council committee chairs/members, I would say you have three options if your SE or area can't provide clarification: Review the Orientation Guide for Council Officers and Executive Board Members. See if a council executive board orientation is offered. If you've attended Wood Badge or Philmont Leadership Challenge, I personally would say you're qualified to wear it in relation to your council-level position.

@@jc2008 Great question! This came up at a Philmont Training Center conference I went to a couple years back that went over council training committee operations, so I'll give a short and a long answer from what I remember. Short: Many registered adult positions in Scouting don't have defined "trained" requirements, and the majority of these positions that don't have defined requirements are those that exist at the national, region, area, and council levels. In most cases, any Scouter who's been selected to serve at these levels have enough experience/trainings that a patch isn't necessary or desired by that individual. Long: As mentioned previously, the majority of these positions exists in the upper-echelons of Scouting leadership, so these requirements apply to only a handful of Scouters. That being said, there's a few other factors including: The priority to create a training syllabus for every registered position in Scouting is not present. With dozens of registered position codes existing beyond the council level, it's not practical to formulate a formal training for each one. Most gold-shoulder loop Scouters tend to play down their uniform. Most national council volunteers/staff I've encountered have always eschewed looking like a banana-republic dictator, so many of these Scouters will wear the minimum that's expected for their position. This was confirmed through an open Area Committee member I met at the 2013 Jamboree, the "training" usually comes on an informal basis. This individual said she was told that "if you want to wear your 'trained' strip, just have a meeting or a phone call with our Area President, and he'll brief you on your responsibilities." Hope this helps!

@@518Advisor Welcome to Scouter.com! In short, any Venturing activities that have male and female participants (specifically those under 21) should have co-ed adult (over 21) leadership. Now, that being said, my crew had similar scenario when it started up. When we had less than eight active Venturers, we would frequently have only only four to five attending overnight activities. The ladies in the crew had fathers who were advisors, and the other guys were either brothers or grew up with the brothers through Boy Scouting. For the first two years, our female advisor was very transient due to her job hours, so we made the best of situation. We still attended the activities our Venturers planned, and we may have broken some YPT in process. However, we had a very open and comfortable culture in our crew, and it worked for the benefit our youth! One of those ladies went on earn her Silver Award and work at Philmont. Bare in mind all this was also 5+ years ago. So, I'm by no means advocating ignoring YPT, but you should also look at the dynamics in your crew. Take that how you will.

Found another article about this: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scout-leaders-discuss-offering-more-opportunities-girls-n754541 I know a region Venturing advisor I met at Jambo 2013, and I think she's down at the national office this week for a Jambo 2017 meeting. I'll reach out to her and ask if she's heard anything while she's there.

In the councils I've been a part of, it's really hit or miss. It honestly comes down to culture created in each unit. I've known 100+ boy troops that have grandfathers still volunteering even though their sons have left, and I've known 15 boy troops that retain adults. The common factor in both, in what I've seen, is how the adult leadership treats and values their volunteers.

@@NJCubScouter I went to NAM in 2015 when it was in Atlanta. For the most the part, NAM is really just a gathering of council Key 3 and the "gold shoulders". In theory, any volunteer, professional, youth member, and family of a volunteer/professional could attend. In practice, the majority of attendees are council Key 3 members, and area, region, and national members. There's also few up-and-coming district/council professionals and national/region youth officers that attend. For the most part, just about every session is an option for attendees to attend. There's a few business meetings or receptions that are restricted. All in all, I thought it was a great conference! I got the new information on Cub Scouting for the packs in my district, and I got some clarifications on "hard-set council policies" that really shouldn't be hard-set! If you don't mind the travel and fees, I'd recommend attending.

@@beavalo2 Yeah, for the most part, councils that do have some kind of supplemental training for Cub Scout leaders (not counting roundtable), and I've seen it called University of Scouting, Baden-Powell University, College of Cub Scouting, Pow-wow, etc. It really depends on your council and what they call it.

I've been in touch with some of the event leadership, and this is our update so far: Our camp currently doesn't have many fully-enclosed indoor structures, so indoor events would be very limited. The primary way into the camp is a low-water crossing, so we're concerned about getting participants in and out of the event. The lighting and storm hazards have us concerned about whether we'll be able to have ziplining, shooting sports, and aquatics. And, a potential for tornadoes has been added. We're supposed to make a decision tomorrow night after having another 24 hours to see how the weather will progress. We do know that another Scouting event 45 minutes north of us has cancelled. @@Back Pack and @@Col. Flagg we've been checking the NWS religiously these past few days. Like you said, it's what we think is the most accurate.

This weekend, my council's Venturing committee and Venturing Officers' Association planned a spring campout for crews to attend. Being on the council Venturing committee, it's been fantastic to see the youth step up take on planning responsibilities. Unfortunately, here's where we are at today: The forecast calls for "potential [storms] to be severe with large hail and damaging winds" and "heavy flooding rainfall". This is supposed to come in on Friday and Saturday. The majority of our activities are outdoor based, e.g. shooting sports, climbing/rappelling, zip-lining, kayaking, and sailing. We have approximately 45 people registered. This is average if not above average for my council's Venturing events. I'm not necessarily asking for advice on this particular situation, but what are the things or criteria you consider? I'd hate to see all our officers' work go to waste, but the safety of our youth is first. Any insight into your experiences or council's practices would be appreciated!

To give a little insight, Over the summer at Philmont Training Center, I got to talk to the NOVA specialist from the National Service Center and several professionals who oversee STEM Scouting at a council or national level. This was their general explanation: Traditionally, Scouting has prepared youth through outdoor and high adventure settings. However, we've learned through programs like Exploring and Venturing that we can still accomplish this goal without a monthly campout or a week at a summer camp. The STEM Scouts program was the brainchild of former Chief Scout Executive Wayne Brock who wanted to reconnect youth who may not be interested traditional Scouting programs but still want to be part of an organization that promotes timeless values like the BSA. Thus, STEM Scouts was born. By substituting the outdoor component of traditional Scouting programs with that of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM), we can reach out to an growing segment of American youth. Currently, the program is in the pilot stages and is being operated by only a handful of Scout councils. My two-cents on the idea is it's redundant. We already have Exploring posts (serving high school and college age youth) and Exploring clubs (serving middle school age youth), and Exploring units are encouraged to center themselves around a career group, e.g. Engineering, Skilled Trades, Health Care, etc. I feel like STEM Scouts is reinventing the wheel here when we have a program serving a similar (if not identical) purpose. Again, my two-cents.

Oh wow, I know the Scouter who's in the article. I'll ask him next time I see him, but I did contact the local Scout council (Indian Nations #488). As far as I could tell, the council knew nothing about this and were quick to point any uniforming questions to National. Back to the issue though, I wonder what's going to happen when the Cherokee Nation realizes they can't modify a uniform protected by a Congressional charter? Also, this type of award already exists. My $0.02.

I wasn't really looking him to admit guilt or find fault. More so, it confirms the validity of the BSA's current (and potential) co-ed programs. As long as the BSA can justify their work is to the benefit of American, male youth, they will have fulfilled their Congressional charter. Heck, the BSA could incorporate an investment company or construction firm if they felt it was to the benefit of the youth we serve. However, I still believe the BSA will ensure its younger-age programs have the ability to be co-ed units with single-gender dens/patrols. This will allow boys and girls, who develop at different rates, to mature in a more conducive setting. Once a youth becomes high-school aged, the need to be able to interact with both genders becomes more critical for future success, so this is where a completely co-ed unit (crew, ship, post, or lab) can encourage that type of skill growth. My $0.02.

Truth be told, I have a young man in my crew who wants to become a professional Scouter, and he will be moving to a college about eight hours north of where we meet. Obliviously, this isn't very conducive for him to be regularly active with our unit, so I've been working with him to find a new crew closer to his college. During this, he brought up the idea of staying registered in our crew to still be considered a Venturer, but he would find a council/district position in his new area. His justification being that these positions should be more project or event focused, in theory, and it would fit his schedule more than weekly meetings. When I heard about the push for younger volunteers, his situation came to mind. It's interesting hearing someone else's experiences in this.

I reached out to my council's attorney, who also moonlights at a local university for tort (contract) law, and this is the response I got: Evening , In response to your question concerning the Boy Scouts of America Congressional Charter, specifically our purpose/mission as dictated by said document, I have prepared this overview for you. "The purposes of the ...[boy Scouts of America]... are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916." Even though the practice of granting Congressional charters is discontinued, previously granted charters are still binding in whatsoever requirements are mandated for the chartered organization to fulfill. In our case, this includes, but is not limited to, delivering a program to accomplish our "purposes" and delivering an annual report annually no later than April 1 to Congress. Outside of this, the actual Congressional charter is intentionally vague so as to allow the BSA to grow and adapt as the nation's landscape and culture changes. One example, the integration of co-ed programs such as Venturing, Sea Scouting, Exploring, and STEM Scouts. Changes like this does not invalidate or nullify our Congressional charter, as we still deliver a Scouting program for male youth in the United States. Thank you for your interest in this topic, as this area of law that is a personal interest. I hope this helped answer your question, and please reach-out to me if you have any further questions or need clarification. Respectfully,

I think a co-ed Boy Scouts of America has been coming down the pipe for a while now. When Exploring became co-ed in the early 70s, there was a lot of controversy about the BSA leaving its roots and not serving its mission. But, 40 years down the line, we're still kicking and the BSA hasn't folded. From what I've observed,The BSA is slowly drifting towards aligning itself with other members of WOSM. Right now, I believe its less than a dozen national Scouting organizations (NSO) have an out-right ban on homosexual orientation, so there's an example there. Another case, the Scout Association (United Kingdom) went partially co-ed in 1976 and fully co-ed in 1991. I know they took a hit in membership in the decades after, but, hey, who hasn't? The way I foresee the BSA going is: Development of Cub Scouting into a co-ed program. However, I suspect dens will be organized by gender were appropriate. Development of Boy Scout into a co-ed program. Similar to Cub Scouts, I would think patrols would try to be separated by gender as much as possible. Possibly, Boy Scouting becomes just Scouting or another more broader name. Venturing, Sea Scouting, and Exploring become more intertwined. I know currently there are councils with Venturing/Exploring districts and Exploring/Venturing Officers' Associations. Additionally, I was talking to a national committee member in my council the other day, and it sounds like this meshing has already been discussed at-least. In the end, I trust the BSA to do what it thinks best to accomplish its congressionally-charted mission. My $0.02.

I know right now; there are several councils out east requiring all registered, adult leaders to be "trained", and I know there is at-least one council either in Oklahoma or Texas going to that system. I believe they are staggering the integration of the plan though, e.g. first year: all unit leaders trained, second year: all direct contact adult leaders trained, third year: all registered adult leaders trained.

I was asked to consider serving on my council's alumni committee today, and I received a packet of various alumni initiatives being started across the BSA. One of the ideas in the packet was to reach-out to college-age and young adults to serve at the council and district-level as registered volunteers. Having been an assistant NYLT course director and volunteer for my daughter's Venturing crew, I know the capabilities of young adults. However, there's a few roadblocks I see in the BSA: The only volunteer, registered positions available for adults 18-20 years-old are: Merit Badge Counselor (42 & 42F), Camp Staff (49), College Scouter Reserve (92). I reached out to my council registrar to confirm this, and her guide confirmed that every other position would require an individual to be at-least 21. In my council, we're in the process of trying to integrate new volunteers into the existing hierarchy. I'm trying to imagine a dozen college-age adults serving on district operating committees in a very tradition-driven council. Curious what other councils are doing to support an alumni program and recruiting/selecting young adults for council and district-level positions. Thoughts? Haiku? Experiences?

Hey Tiger Foot, A pack trainer is considered "trained" when they have completed Youth Protection (Y01) and the Pack Committee position training. At this time, there isn't a formal module or training solely for the pack trainer position. That being said, the pack trainer position is designed to give each pack a single, dedicated volunteer who's only role is training and adult development. So, for example, a pack trainer may organize a pack training day to facilitate a classroom or "live" training for new committee members or den leadership. Throughout the year, the pack trainer should be working towards 100% youth protection training for the pack's adult leaders, and he/she should be promoting/facilitating more training opportunities. This could include promoting BALOO, OWL, roundtable, Wood Badge, and any other training (online or in-person) they feel would be beneficial to the pack, but, for the most part, pack trainers generally function as a pack committee member with a few extra jobs. Hope this helps!

deanofmac, No problem, thanks for letting us share a bit of insight. Seconding Col. Flagg's idea, getting some kind of advancement tracking software would be great a resource for your troop. I'd check into Scoutbook and with your council. I know some have started offering the service for free to Scouting units, and there are plans to fully integrate Scoutbook with the BSA's advancement systems!

Generally speaking, we expect our unit leadership to provide a program using the most-up-to-date information available. However, at the end of the day, the BSA is a volunteer organization. We rely on our volunteers to do their own research, e.g. Bryan on Scouting, ScoutingWire, Guide to Advancement, but any volunteer will tell this isn't a perfect system. Not saying this right, many unit leaders and Scouts will defer to what's in the handbook they had they joined the unit. If unit leadership is not attending roundtable, or doing their own research, it's very easy for volunteers to take the path of least resistance. We don't exactly make these updates easy to find or compile. How many of the 1 million+ volunteers in the BSA are checking Heath and Safety Alerts, the Training Times, or the Commissioner. We have an information overload for our volunteers, so we strive to keep the program as consistent as possible, and we make our units the best they can be. My two-cents.

Hedgehog, That's our crew's thoughts exactly! In the past, we've tried to ask the local high school counselor and/or a law enforcement officer to deliver a comparable training using the syllabus, and we've always gotten positive feedback from this. Good news though, I've heard through an area Venturing advisor that there's talk at the national level of reworking the training.