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We have a nice solution for maintaining that knowledge/history/esprit de corp etc. Our "Committee" is made up of a large number former course directors. They are not official staff, but they are part of our Wood Badge family and add so much to our courses. They are great as resources for participants, but even more so for the staff. They are our wise sages, advisers, storytellers, song-masters and cheerleaders.

Those are very nice, I have them as well. Mine are from different printings but both are 3rd handbooks. I love the old books and anytime I can find one in good shape I try to add it to my collection. They are full of great knowledge and history of Scouting. It is also interesting to see how things are different and the same. My oldest dates back to 1922.

I agree with some of your post and cannot disagree with some of it. So I'll just make a few points. I use the syllabus as just that, an outline. The syllabus even states the as a trainer we need to fill the gaps. The syllabus actuall covers very little of the real material, most of what is needed is found elsewhere I am careful about who I chose to be trainers, because I am a radical evangelist for boy-led and patrol method. If you are not living/teaching that, then no thank you When I have new trainers, I am always nearby to step-in and assist/set the record straight When I do teach alone or with one or two others I know well, we often hit the syllabus high-points and make it more conversational, so we can participants can ask questions Everything I have read, even GBB's writings, the troop serves a purpose, but the patrol this the foundation When you boil down the actual training (depending on how Gathering/opening and closing are handled) there is only 3-1/2 to 4 hours of training. Some sections could easily have that much time devoted to them, Patrol Method, Annual planning, Advancement come to mind. Because much of what SM/ASM's walk in the door knowing, needs to be unlearned, which take even longer than teaching. Unfortunately, longer training will not happen, as it is increasingly difficult to get people to take a half day out of their schedule for training now I do use the Meeting plan and Troop Program Features to teach, but I also teach them how to use them based on where a troop is in their boy-led cycle. I used them in my units to get Scouts accustomed to making plans and using PLC for troop decisions, based on the Patrols decisions. I teach using it as a guide and once they have grasped that I tell them use it/alter it/throw it out as they see fit. A meeting, outing, activity needs to be what the Scouts want, not what the book or SM says. If PLC wants 100% of the time as Patrol time, more power to them. If they want none of it because they regularly meet as patrols, outstanding. To be honest, I do better teaching/training and coaching from my Commissioner position, I can actually see units in action, and talk about Patrol method and boy-led and give advice I am not sure it sounds like it with the post, but I am 100% in tune with you on Patrol Method and Boy-led. Which is why I spend so much time (and money) with old Scouting books and material, I want to make sure I have everything available to make every Scouts experience the best it can be. Maybe I stray too far away from the BSA company line in some folks eyes, but I prefer to look at the syllabus as a guide on what to cover. I expound on the different areas as time allows, which to me really is the problem, not enough time.

I guess it is a matter of perspective. If you know the material then it may seem like a waste of time. For others, there is not nearly enough time. Then I have those who "know all about it", that are consistently wrong in their approach. During my last SM Specific class I had two brand new Scoutmasters, who, by their own admission, did not know a thing. I could have spent two days with them and not answered all their questions. I have also have those that argue with me because "his boys can't handle that much authority and responsibility." I am perplexed at the out of date comment, when most would argue we need to be going back to methods from the 20's and 30's. As for Training the Trainer, I'll go back to my original comment about not enough time. I have taken the T3 course and I think the subject was short shifted due to trying to cram too much into a short period of time, it only allowed for highlights and superficial teaching. I was (still am) a trainer long before I got into Scouting, so while I agree that those courses are lacking, I look back to my professional training and there is not comparison in terms of the time spent compared to BSA. I guess that reflects the idea that people are willing ot take the time if their livelihoods are at stake but they are not as interested if it is volunteer work.

I am not sure what materials you are referencing, but I have taught SM/ASM Specific using the last 2 Syllabi, dating back to 2010, and the Patrol method is very much a part of that training. In fact, we break the group of trainee's into patrols as well. Then we use the patrol method during IOLS and Wood Badge. The training far too short for the amount if information we are trying to teach, but it is there. And if trainers are following the program, they are teaching it. I keep reading that we do not teach patrol method anymore, but it is just not true, at least not in my Council. And I hear we do not teach it the "old" way, but I have dozens of old hard bound books dating back to the 1920's and many more on PDF. I constantly reference them for teaching a wide range of classes. For the most part, what we are teaching reflects Patrol Method as it was then and now. Troops putting those lessons in action may be an entirely different story, but Patrol method is certainly being taught.

Safety has not been a specific topic for IOLS since at least 2010, I cannot say before that. First Aid was removed a couple of years ago however. Safety, is a part of IOLS throughout the scheduled training though, just not a specific topic. I do occasionally see classes on G2SS at University of Scouting and other events. I will say that it is difficult to get volunteers to training, so there is a constant effort to reduce the in person training in order to make it more appealing. In doing so, volunteers are offered less and less. But it is a vicious cycle. I cannot not tell you how many SM's have told me they have been a Scout and Scouter for XX years, and they don't need training, as I watch them go off and "command" their unit and lead/teach things incorrectly.

To you list I will add: Complaining about is problem is MUCH easier than rolling up your sleeves and working to fix it.

I have a few observations: Do not judge the program by a single pack. Units vary wildly. I have not seen you state that you have had a discussion with the Cubmaster. If not, you should. If you have, what was the response? A Boy Scout does not equal Den Chief. Den Chiefs must be selected by SPL with guidance of the SM, and approved by the Cubmaster and Pack Committee to be recommended as Den Chief to the Den Leader. The Den Chief must be a n older Scout (not well defined, but I am not sure 12 would be considered older). Many Troops will not allow a youth to become Den Chief until they reach First Class ( I was told this is not required by BSA from a parent that complained about the SM's rule, but he rule makes sense to me). Den Chief does not equal baby sitter. The Den Leader is still responsible. Shirking that duty is not acceptable. If I were a Cubmaster, I do not think I would be keen on the idea of a Den Chief serving in the den run by their parent, but that is a personal choice, not BSA policy. If this unit does not work for you, look for a different unit. Packs are the most abundant unit in BSA, there is likely one, or several, nearby. Please do not take offense to this, but reevaluate your perspective. As a Commissioner I have routinely seen/heard accounts of situations that one or both sides of an issue see though colored lens. Often, once we start talking through the situation, one or both sides see how they may have misinterpreted what was going on. Not saying that is the case here, but it is a good place to start in many cases.

Welcome aboard!

My first question is what solution did the Scouts come up with?

The family program at Philmont has been around for a while. And from what I hear it’s been pretty successful and well received. Scouters get to go get some good training and the spouses and children get to have an adventure. <sarcasm> Sounds horrible and just plain wrong </sarcasm>

@Tampa Turtle I’m just sorry I can only upvote once

I cannot say you are completely wrong, though maybe over generalizing. Every district/council has their problem children (errmmm adults). But I am willing to wager that every district/council also has people willing to figure out how to get around the problem folks and make things work for the youth. I hold positions in two districts (my home district and inner city), the council and lodge as well. There are absolutely people that are problems, but I generally try to avoid those folks and work around them for what I need. I can tell you, everything I and those working with me do, is meant to improve the experience for the youth. Not all of it is directly aimed at the youth, but it sure is aimed at improving their experience. I also manage to stay active with my unit as well. BTW, I am an evil Wood Badger too! The point is that I know there are people who will make doing things tough, I try to ignore them and move forward. There are times I bite my tongue till it bleeds, and times I don't (but probably should have). I think of it like a river, when it starts to dry up, there is a lot of garbage around the banks. And like water, sometimes we have to look for the paths of least resistance. Once you find people of like minds who want to see what is best for the youth, join up with them (interestingly, it is often the youth themselves). When people realize what is happening is good for the youth they come along. All of a sudden the water is cutting the path with the youth out front, and not looking for the path of least resistance. When the water gets flowing, the momentum of the water just pushed all the garbage away.

I think it is the other way around. Policy folks seem clear (or at least the ones I talked to), but the all of the online places that show your trained status are not up to date.

(and adhere to the rules) <<<<<<< This part. I would be surprised if Phimont is not teaching them, but for those who have never spent time in the back country it is questionable if it will take root. Not to mention, what they forget about and leave in their vehicles.

Happy Birthday BSA!

I just got of the phone with National Member Services. I was told there is only one YPT going forward, and that I am covered. Even though Even though I have taken the new YPT, online records are not showing me covered for Venturing, just Boy Scouts. It also concerns me that most of the Venturing info was removed. The old Venturing YPT covered info about sexual misconduct between Venturers, the new one doesn't specifically cover that issue.

If you are offended by something that TV sensors deemed non offense 4 decades ago, well sorry. You calling all things District, Council and National bad/evil, is no different than people calling all teachers incompetent or all coaches and priest pedophiles. Painting with such broad stroke gets a lot of people messy that don't deserve it.

There is the dichotomy of the situation. ] You say McMartin Preschool to people of my generation and all we remember are the accusations and think of them as evil people. The false accusations, for all practical purposes, stuck. Then you have Larry Nassar's of the world, where the victims were not believed initially. Accusations need to be listened to and investigated. But accusation do not equal guilty. Unfortunately, there are those, far too many, that believe what they want to believe regardless of any evidence. Some ignore accusations because they think it is impossible, others will always believe even if accusations are proven false.

Calling horse hockey and recommending someone find an organization that fits them better pales in comparison. Many of the comments on a myriad of subjects are not descent, they are down right nasty

I was quoting your sentiments, those certainly are not mine.

Well as you say, it is not the Scouts unit it is the CO's. So just make the change, right? Or if the IH prefers Scout then quit being the CoR. Clearly the way BSA operates does not work for you. All things district and council are bad, national are all liars.

Ridiculous horse hockey. But if you believe that perhaps Trail Life or BPSA would work better for you.

I wish we could quote the upvote/reactions, lol. @ItsBrian You gave the post above a confused vote, @.40AET is referencing an old 1981 movie called Stripes. The vehicle in the photo posted by @Jameson76 is the fictitious "Urban Assault Vehicle" from that movie that John Winger (Bill Murray) commandeered to for a joy ride, and ends up Czechoslovakia to save his platoon mates, as well as Sgt Hulka, aka the Big Toe. It's a reference us old farts quickly recognize.

I don't have the James E. West Fellowship Award, and wouldn't wear it if i did. I already do not wear every knot I have. I know a number of West Fellows, the vast majority do not wear them. But I certainly do not begrudge anyone who does wear it. Many of the knots/awards are not "earned." They are recognition for contribution, including the DESA, MOESA, DSA, Meany, Young, DAM, Silver Beaver, Antelope and Beaver. Others are "earned" by doing the job you should be doing, like Den Leaders Award, Unit Leaders Award of Merit, Training Award and Scouters Key. The Boyce Award is often given to the person that did the least amount of work starting a new unit. Knots are awards are given for various reasons. Financial contributions help keep Scouting afloat, they always have. We wouldn't have Philmont, Seabase, Northern Tier and most of our Summer camps if not for donations and grants. To think those who have helped create and maintain Scouting from a financial standpoint are somehow less important to the program than those of us who work the program is counter productive and frankly not very Scout-like IMHO. There is way too much US and THEM in these conversations. Scouters, professionals and financial contributors all have a significant role in Scouting. I think it is appropriate to thank and recognize them, and frankly a tiny piece of cloth is not a big deal in light of their contribution.