Col. Flagg

...and this is why knots should be limited. You'll end up looking like this. 17 knots? Really?

Alps Mountaineering Tauras AL 4 mans. They will give troops a decent price point. As I recall we paid $150/tent. We've had Alps for over 18 years now and seem to replace every 6-7 years. Just recycled out tents a few years back after 8 years of use. Gotta agree. And they stand up to boy wear and tear well. In my area the ground can be rough, so we use Tyvek ans lightweight ground cover which helps the tents longevity.

@@4CouncilsScouter, if the young man has done NYLT, NAYLE and has been active in Venturing leadership -- and I assume been active in Ventring for a while -- I am not sure they will get much out of WB. Some councils do a good job of mimicking the patrol method in WB training, and the tickets will be projects that Venturing folks are used to, so there's that small nugget. But if they have any exposure to Boy Scouts and the patrol method, WB will bore them and might even be beneath them. I had an Eagle Scout who went and was bored to tears.

Ah, no. 6-8" cat hole, a tree to hug and biodegradable TP and I am all set. If I wanted to go in a cat box I'd visit by brother's house.

Respectfully disagree. The cost is $975 for the week. That's what the councils are billed. As @@Snow Owl pointed out most of the costs for sightseeing in DC is free, though Lord knows the food is expensive. When you compare what life-changing experiences you can have elsewhere, the cost of Jamboree is exorbitant. I sent 10 Scouts to AK to go glacier climbing for $1600/person for a week. That included gear, food, etc. I'd pay much more to send them to fight the crowds at Bechtel for a week. Been there, done that. IHMO by comparison it's not worthy it...or reasonable. Now if you have $$$ to throw away then by all means, go. I suspect those folks thinking it is affordable are closer to the event. Those of us west of the Mississippi have to pay twice what you might. No bargain.

The master class is good, but I am not about to pack my poo out. Just sayin' they can get a little overly eager in their conservation.

Do it! You will regret it if you don't. You know the system and know how it should be run.

I would agree that this would fit the Life requirement for three conservation-related service hours. There's no definition for what those service hours must entail but I think this idea would meet that requirement. Well done.

@@DadScouts, great thoughts. IF he's really motivated, this award would be quite a feather to wear.

Picturing some Luddite Scouter reading this and looking for a chimpanzee costume with a mail bag to he can hand out fliers and the next RT.

Except that the requirements for the National Outdoor Award for Conservation says specifically: Complete 25 hours of conservation work under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America, including hours worked as part of requirements 1 through 3. So it would have to be a Boy Scout program of some sort. If just teaching "kids" then it can't count. However, you CAN count hours that one might accrue under Requirements 1-3: Conservation service hours getting to First Class rank. Any hours spent using the tools in Requirement #2. Hours spent working on projects for the merit badges listed in Requirement #3. The hours spent in a MB College wouldn't count (IMHO), but hands-on work at a summer camp class where you are actually doing the field research and activities would count.

That's instructing, not service IMHO.

Program Guides, meetings in a box, calendars mapped to the requirements by rank, by month. All of these things are tools that have been created that parents can use to deliver their program if they want. Most parents are in the same boat. They are thrust in to Cub Scouts with little to no clue on who the program works, what the badges mean, etc. HOWEVER, spending time online, digging through a few forums, asking questions of other DLs and making use of the tools available give those parents who really care to look all they need to develop and manage a decent Den program. I agree better training could be had. BSA took their old training modules and, for some reason, broke them up in to MORE modules rather than fewer. Sure they take the same amount of time, but who wants to click through 19 courses that take 4 hours when it could be 5 courses. Mentally you see 19 and go "Holy Cow!!!" Still, the resources are there if parents care to invest the time to make it work. It's the same for the mom who is thrust in to coaching her son's soccer team or the dad who has to coach his daughter's volleyball team. If you REALLY care you can make it work. The rest is just excuses IMHO.

I applaud him taking the course. He will certainly learn a great deal and become a great advocate for outdoor ethics. While the training is not required, the Leave No Trace and Tread Lightly are noted as "Basic Training". While the BSA does not come out and say it, it is expected that Outdoor Ethics Guides take these two modules at a minimum. There are a few other suggested training here. We suggest to all our guides to take these modules to help them perform their role best. It would be very hard to be an outdoor ethics advocate without taking these. Taking training is simply training. It is not service hours. He will get credit for taking the training and should show on his record as having been trained; much like guys going to NYLT show as NYLT trained. There is no such thing as "classroom credit" for the National Outdoor Award for Conservation. The requirements are simple. Req #1 is rank based. The class does not confer rank so attending the class has no impact. Req #2 *might* be credited *if* he demonstrates the use of the five tools AND discusses their ethical use. Req #3 is merit badge based.The class does not teach these merit badges so attending the class has no impact. Req #4 is service hour based, but specifically Boy Scout service hours that are conservation related, ergo not classroom work.HOWEVER, part of this requirement can be met if, in doing Req# 1-3, the Scout engaged in service...in other words, WORK (not classroom). So if during the tools demo the class worked on a trail, those hours would count. If they simply sat in a classroom and learned how to use the tools the hours would NOT count because not service (or work) was done. If he truly wants to have a career in conservation I would encourage you to really have him work, sweat and toil the 25 service hours doing true conservation work. Learn what it is really like. It is HARD work with little pay. There is a ton of classroom learning required for which you get classroom credit, not service credit. And when you get in the field you work 10-14 hours and still need to cook and clean. Relaxing is looking at the stars or watching a thunderstorm. I would NOT recommend you (or the Scoutmaster) read too much in to any of these requirements. This training -- and the associated awards -- are meant to be difficult to get. To be brutally honest, even thinking about applying classroom time as credit towards service hours tells me that you might be seeking an easy path for your Scout rather than having him work hard to get the award. I don't mean to be rude, but that's the feeling I get from the original post.

Exactly. Funny how the uniform option becomes compulsory and no one at council or national bats an eye. At the price @@Back Pack mentions, I wouldn't go to Jambo either...Scout or adult. For adults, add in the loss of 5-7 days of vacation time. Maybe this is why going to Jambo is so expensive.

Guidelines would be nice, as in "must be environmental related" or something like that.

Girl led, no doubt.

From what I have seen that pretty much describes most threads here after page 5.

As much as abhor citing Wikipedia, here's what they said. Assuming they are correct, not sure Tigers were ever Kindergarten.

I went in 1977. Rained for a week. I would say it was okay, might have changed my mind had it been sunny. For the money spent now a days, I am not sure I would go. I'd rather get away from the crowds and get out to nature. A trip to Alaska, Wyoming, Colorado or Phiilmont would be more my speed. See nature, do fun stuff and have an adventure. Jambo was crowds, waiting, etc. If you are going just to say you went, then great. If you are going and expecting a life-changing event I think you will be disappointed. I was but you may not be.

There's a few big assumptions here. Webelos/Troop Relations: I agree that there should be more Webelos/Troop activities, BUT that has to be part of the Webelos DL outreach; not something you burden the troop leaders with. Afterall, it is technically the Webelos program. Now, a smart troop would already be reaching out to the Webelos in their area on a regular basis and not just during recruiting season. Webelos Parent Burn Out: I'd say that's about the same for every CS parent. But who is to say that the troop you are about to burden with 4th and 5th graders (Webelos) can 1) handle the additional training/babysitting, and 2) don't already rely on said Webelos parents to refresh THEIR burned out parents. Webelos to Scouts Shock: In my experience this has more to do with helicopter parenting than anything. Parents that let kids do their own thing, rather than constant hovering, usually have kids that adapt well to troop life. They'd have to change their own membership model. COs would have to give up their ownership and the BSA would either have to take ownership of the units OR convince COs to consolidate units. Now that I think about it, the whole DE compensation model would need to be revamped too. Don't districts and councils get evaluated on how many units they create/keep alive? And yet BSA goes the other way and introduces Lions.

I think you are missing @@fred johnson's point. The UMC is welcome to open their Boy Scout doors to whoever they please. That's policy that the BSA gives them. The members of that scout unit must abide by the UMC beliefs. So if the UMC folks believed in eating bacon three times a day as part of their religious observance, I don't think the Muslim and Jewish scouts would want to stay, and the church could exclude them under BSA policy.

From the BSA prior to the the change in the 2013 membership policy. Note the red text. "The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs."

Wow...that's scary. That means that FB is keeping a database when you tag someone and using their facial scanning algorithm to find their face in other photos you post. That's interesting the ACLU has not been all over this issue, but I guess they're too busy doing other non-essential stuff. So I could post a picture of you, tag you and then your face is in FB's system and you can do nothing about it. That's a HUGE infringement of one's civil liberties and right to privacy. I notice that they have not rolled this out to Germany and a few other countries that have strict privacy laws. Time to change my account to German FB.