Col. Flagg

At our end of summer district RT we heard reports from the various troops about their trips to summer camps (mostly out of council). Many of the troops reported being told they could not use squirt guns, water balloons, etc. *if* they were going to shoot or throw them at people. The doc they quoted? They very doc we are discussing. This is not just one camp, or two camps, or three camps. This was MANY camps across MANY different councils across MANY different regions. In fact, two troops reported being threatened with not being able to go on their trek at Seabase because they were using "water noodles" to shoot water at each other. So you can mince the words in the doc any way you want, but MANY other people are interpreting this as prohibitions. But let's leave that alone for a moment and get back on the other issue, the ability to cool stuff outside of BSA that BSA forbids. Playing laser tag, paint ball, shooting 3D targets, etc., are fun and boys should be allowed to play them. The reasoning for barring such fun is specious at best.

You cannot throw or shoot anything at anyone, correct? Can you use giant balloons are targets? Sure. Can you throw a water balloon of ANY size at another person? No. So how are balloons not at least partially banned? Same with squirt guns or even those water tubes. Shooting anything (even water) at anyone is forbidden...and that's stupid. No one in their right mind, except an lawyer, would think there's a relationship between a Scout using a SuperSoaker to spray his friend and the mis-use of a firearm.

I was merely noting for him, in case he had not fully thought through the scenarios, about the dangers of camping in a flood plain. Second, what happened at Philmont was not a "freak" event. It was a flash flood, the group was camped by the river and was below the evident high water mark left by a previous flash flood not 4 weeks earlier. When you live in this part of the country you learn to recognize the signs of flash floods...even in a clear sky. Lastly, what happened in NT *was* a freak event. You are the one that said close NT, not me.

That's what the crew thought about the staff at Ponil Creek. They were wrong. Hence my response.

The BSA website does not say it, but their official shooting sports manual does. Check here. They are prescriptive about how big the water balloons are and how they can be used. That's prohibiting using them for any other purpose (throwing at each other) as well as the size.

Really? Tell that to the crew from CA that lost one of their Scouts a few years back camping inside the Ponil Creek "flood plain". Might want to re-think before hitting that "post" button. Geesh.

#5: BSA restricts too much. Laser tag, 3d target shoots, water pistols, water balloons, paint ball, etc. I tell my patrols and crew that if they want to do these things, have a group activity, ditch the unit shirts and enjoy yourselves. #10: BSA insurance covers very little. You need PERSONAL liability insurance. Even the RSO insurance you get from firearms and archery training does not cover what it should. I write the cost of my additional personal insurance off as an expense. The annual cost for $1m coverage is pennies compared to what would happen if I got sued for some kid running in to an archery range I am running DESPITE following all the protocols to keep him out.

^^^^^^^^^^ Make a sticky.

MyPlate, trail cooking, lack of real hands-on requirements (too much "discuss" or "explain", not enough "show" or "demonstrate"), etc.

Yes, but as noted above, one should not really be camping in a flood plain. And lets face it, if the reasoning for camping in the flood plain is that "It only ever gets so high" then the reasoning for not urinating in the flood plain is gone. If the water only gets so high except on really, really rare occasions, then urine will make its way through the system before any "flood" can cause it to be intermingled with fresh water. Feces is another matter. Kitty litter being the best option.

Fairly fast BUT it depends on your dates. We were are the end of the summer, so we were one of the last to find out. Obivously, they assign June then July then August. We found out in mid-May for August. If you have a sister crew or other "odd" logistics (i.e., allergies, special needs, etc.) it will take a bit longer. They need to make sure they don't have too many crews going over the same trails too much. They need to manage the "pass throughs" at various staff camps. They have to manage logistics at commissary locations, etc. They have a template that they use that allows them to know capacity over trails, camp sites and staff locations. They have to marry all of that with the requests. Assuming you have an early date and less-popular trek, you might hear very fast. Otherwise, expect to wait. You will certainly know 6 weeks or more before you go...unless you are in June.

You can't abide by the 200ft from the flood plain for urine? I am a flat-lander and even we can do that. It's a hike, but we can do it. Curious, how many folks are we talking about here? If you are following strict LNT they'd suggest you go in crews no bigger than 12 to minimize overall impact.

I know, let's ask someone at national for clarification. That will clear things up with a simple yes or no. Note: Shot a note off to a few folks I knew on one of the drafting committees for the computer-based MBs. They were told the MBs (particularly Advanced Computing) were "dead". The reason given was lack of agreement on what constituted "advanced computing" and what it should include. No one I contacted has had anything further to do with the MB.

Very interesting. The Bryan on Scouting blog has an update page where, nearly two years ago, they down graded "Advanced Computing from "coming soon" to not even being on the list of to-be published MBs. Make you wonder how old those signs were. According to that blog, Advanced Computing has been pushed back a few times, then removed. Same for CAD. Multi-media was removed from coming soon list a few years ago. All that seems to have been updated as of 2/23/17. Now, of course, it would not be the first time BSA said one thing and did the complete opposite.

I don't think any PDA belongs in Scouting. We're asked to abstain from drinking, smoking and other things, so why not PDA? That's rhetorical since we've already come full circle on this argument.

The easiest way to determine the CSV file data format is to contact TroopMaster or ScoutBook to see what their export CSV file for Internet Advancement looks like. CubMaster, TroopMaster and ScoutBook all port CSV files for input in to Internet Advancement.

Folks, if PDA is a wonderful, positive thing it shouldn't matter whether someone is married or not. Also, how does MY troop know if you and your Mrs are married or not. They just see folks holding hands and cheek-pecking. You can quote as much BSA policy as you want, but your position is not helped when you limit PDA to married people. Either PDA is a positive thing or not. Even if non-married people cannot tent together, you YOU going to forbid them from holding hands if it is such a positive thing? It's other the one or the other. Can't limit PDA to only those folks you want.

If only there was a moderator function that could enforce such an idea.

Except this (#6). And yes, I will argue that PDA falls in to the category of "sexual conduct" because, for some 11-17 year olds, holding hands leads to other stuff. Seeing a Scouter, in uniform, at an event doing that can be construed a such IMO.

Here's one link. I will find the others. Edit: There was a video that discussed no relationships or PDA between crew members or especially over 18 members and under 18 members. Same for adults and ANY crew member. I will see if I can find that video.

Two autistic young men made Eagle Scout under my watch. Both grew as young men, one being more higher functioning than the other. Both had only Scouting in their lives as free-time options. One delivered one of the best speeches during his ECOH mentioning the people who, if not for their help, he would not have made Eagle. I was one of those mentioned. A true high point for me.

@@Stosh, I see no where in the BSA docs that say any PDA is acceptable. They go to great lengths to say you cannot allow it in crews, so I would expect what's good for the goose... It is not a matter of how positive it is. I have give you tons of examples of stuff that is positive for Scouts which BSA frowns upon or outright says don't do. The point is, if you allow it for some you have to allow it for all. You cannot say, "Mr & Mrs Stosh *can* show PDA but Mr. Brown and Miss. White cannot." That's just not right.

I am not saying he has to be in two places at the same time, obviously. However, the Scout does need to move around, YET he needs to get "hands on" to show and demonstrate...where he can. He can show good planning by making sure his team leads use phones or radios to contact him if needed. Shows good planning, management and leadership.

IMHO, the Scout shows leadership by delegating and managing the outcome. If an Eagle candidate has a few different workstreams (task areas) for his project, he can certainly delegate by those areas. He assigns the appropriate people, assigns tasks by the tools the Scouts are allowed to use, conducts the safety review for each area, and assigns someone to head the task. HOWEVER, his leadership (and management) does not end there. He must continue to get hands on in each area, making sure that the end result is what he designed/planned. If issues come up he needs to be there to address them. Reviewing after-the-fact is not doing 100% of his job in either leadership or management.

Your question, for me, is a bit akin to walking in to an ER and seeing all the carnage, mayhem and gore and wonder if the healthcare system really works. Here, we see the incoming crappola on a daily basis. It gets triaged and addressed as needed. The help, care and impact on those folks walking through the front door may not be immediately evident to those who don't stick around or see the end results. For example, I received a note from someone here about my response to Philmont planning. They said they had wished they had known any of that prior to their last trip. They printed off the reply and showed it to their crews going this summer and it was an immediate help to them. In their words, "I just may have helped them save their summer." Any way, that's my opinion.