Col. Flagg

It's still a premise because it's an argument you are putting forward. Yes, it is based on observation, as is anyone else's. Let's not pretend to allow phone usage is some how more enlightened that not allowing them. One could make the same argument for other things allowed or prohibited by BSA. The point is that the Scouts themselves came up with the idea having tried other options. Why did they do that? Because some folks can't or won't abide by the policy. To imply that Scouts will adapt as the mature is not always correct. In fact, often it isn't; especially with as ubiquitous as technology has become. Many feel entitled to have their phones 24/7. Let's put it this way, if your argument were correct that people comply as they mature we would not need speed limits, doggie bag or no phones in movie theater rules. Those things exist because many "mature" people simply feel the rules don't apply to them or simply don't care. And that's a larger portion of the population that you think.

But your premise does not see the other 95% of the equation. Their parents' views, or lack thereof, on using technology shapes much of how kids use it. I can have the best program teaching responsible use of technology (and we have many times over the years), only to be undone by parents who use technology as a replacement for actual parenting. We've taught responsible technology use in the past. We've trusted Scouts to use it appropriately. In the end it was the PLC who decided to do away with technology on trips. Guess what? They Scouts police themselves. And when someone, usually a new Scout, violates the rule it is not confiscated and used by the adults or older Scouts. The Scout himself places it back in the vehicle and gets it on the way home. It *can* work the other way too, you know. Scouts can manage themselves in enforcing this as any other rule. Perhaps one day they will elect to allow electronics all the time. It's really a non-issue now since the rule has been in place for a while. And no, we don't consider ourselves any more, or less, "enlightened" because we can or can't use technology on camp outs. I enjoyed the guys playing actual card games at a Philmont campfire, rather than seeing the glow of screens as I saw in one other camp site. To each his own. Our groups chooses the former.

I wasn't clear. I was not talking about thinking I could get away with bringing the beer. Of course I thought I would. I was talking about some teenager being silly enough to think that they could get away with getting a recommendation from someone who knows they broke the rules (and the law). Some folks -- sadly many more now than in the past -- seem to think they can do anything and it will be forgotten. In my case it was over a decade later when the one dad finally forgave me...and only after I had proven I wasn't a waste of space, time and breath.

Sorry, but I did some silly stuff when I was a kid too. I was the kid who hollowed out my cassette tape case and took 4 beers (like that will do anything) to a camp out. I got turned in. A few years later my parents suggested I get a few letters of recommendation from a few of the dads in the troop, several of which were the ones who knew about the beer incident. I was 17 and I knew darn well NOT to contact them for anything. Once a father I ran in to one of them. I apologized for what I had done back then. He remembered and said he was glad I had grown up. I asked him if he would have given me a recommendation back then. He said he wouldn't have because I had broken his trust; and while he wanted me to have a second chance, he didn't think I was worthy of being Eagle. So yes, teenagers ARE -- or at least WERE -- capable of discerning right from wrong AND knowing who to contact for recommendations. I think now (and over the last 15 years or more) folks just think they can get away with stuff.

I was at Philmont last summer. I saw three crews at the base of the Tooth, 90% of them were on their phones gaming or texting. A few didn't want to "bother" with going to the summit. For every story about Scouts using phones right, there are easily an equal number of stories about them never taking their face out of the technology when they should.

I think most units I have seen treat "identify" as knowing common names and differentiation, such as pecan tree, peach tree, red oak, etc. I have not seen units use genus and species. Same with animals. Domestic animals are out. Squirrel is okay but they usually teach the difference between fox squirrel and grey squirrel. @@TAHAWK, if you are looking for standardization on this subject I don't think you will get it. The language of the requirements do not allow standardization of teaching. If you are looking for options, you will certainly get plenty of those.

When the average 10-17 year old has all the responsibilities and obligations of an adult; in addition to giving up their weekends and vacations shuttling these kids everywhere, then yeah, kids and adults can have equal rights when it comes to phones. Did you set the example by going to bed and turning lights out when the kids did? Refrain from drinking caffeine like some council camps prohibit kids from doing while adults guzzle coffee by the vat? Give up the special SM perks like air conditioned "lounges" at camps for leaders unless your kids could partake too? It's got nothing to do with being a control freak. It has to do with implementing the outdoor part of the outdoor program. These kids are outright addicted to display screens. 36 hours without one won't kill them.

I've been in tech for over 30 years now. Straight out of college. Perhaps like many folks here. I can remember all the musings about how "more technology" will lead to greater free time, shorter work weeks and all sorts of cool things to save us time and frustration. While some of that has been true, there have been many unintended consequences. Technology has become more invasive than ever before. People measure you by how fast you respond. If someone texts you and one does not respond within a few minutes the other person feels put out. Certainly employers expect near real-time responses. If you live in the high tech world that's certainly true. Personally, I use my technology at camp for the benefit of the kids. I take pics. I run a blog to let family back home know what they kids are doing. We live-cast cool things (like zip lining over a canyon). I do this for a number of reasons: Keep parents up to date (and off my case), record troop history (yes, with the youth historian helping), develop action events for recruiting, keep up that public image, etc. Most Scouts will use their phones for YouTube, gaming, texting or snapchat. Some may actually take pictures, most won't. Few really use their phone for much other than that, though they will tell you otherwise so you don't take it away.

Curious, but how boy led was Old Troop versus New Troop?

We have two way radios with weather radio on them. The youth leaders are trained to use them and that's how we stay in touch on such events. Almost makes up for them not having phones.

When not Scouting, I chase storms in the plains. I agree with what has been said here: Communicate to your attendees and unit leaders. Let them know you are monitoring the weather. Be clear on when and how you will make your decision. Let them know under what circumstances you will cancel or reschedule. Use good forecasting sources. As @@backpack points out, the NWS are killer at pinpointing storms and their potential impact. Most weather apps are terrible at it because they are fairly general. The best "back up" resource to use IMHO is this. If you see storm chasers lining up near you, you can expect to see some hard weather. If you see Reed Timmer, you are likely in the path of a tornado. Obviously, things to consider are lightning, severe storm and flash flood dangers. For example, we had to cancel an event one time not so much because of the weather that day or during the event, but because the resulting flash floods would have cut off all of the roads in or out of where where were. Some great advice here. People will always appreciate you being over-communicative than otherwise. Safety is always the number one concern. EDIT: I will add to the NOAA site mentioned above, this site can be quite useful too. While the SPC focuses on when and where the storms will hit, the hydrology teams focus on the aftermath of the storms, specifically the water movements and impact on things. We use these prior to canoeing or other events to judge exactly how much water will impact our event. For this weekend, check out how much water is expected in this region. This is an example but you can find your region on that site. Good Luck!!!

Scouts cannot use mobile devices. They remain in the car. They can use while travelling but not at camp. If used as cameras, they may use them during the day but they are put back up at night. At summer camp they are not allowed, period. Violations are handled by taking away the device privilege at the next event. If there's a need for GPS, we have our own units Scouts can use. Anything else they need they can either 1) use their Handbook or 2) bring a print copy of what they need (e.g., MB books). Adults have more leeway. Why? Well adults have different requirements than Scouts, especially at summer camp. Some parents are on call, others use their devices to help the youth leaders managed things, some are used for comms devices in camp.

I can't think of ANYTHING that requires a hash tag.

I hear you. So the best analogy I can give you is one of a journey and the ranks are weigh stations on your map; the destination is Eagle. Start at Scout and just review with him the journey, noting all the cool points of interest along the way: camp outs troop/patrol events first year Scouting stuff summer camp merit badges cool training opportunities high adventure bases other cool awards (NOVA, STEM, outdoor award, 50 miler, etc) If you do that -- and stay involved in the unit while he enjoys himself -- Eagle will come....and faster than you think.

Don't misunderstand. I *know* what they are for. I just don't get why something like that is necessary. I don't "get" Twitter. I couldn't care less that you are in line at Starbucks and someone cut in front of you, or that you think a certain cat video is cool. No offense, but no one is THAT interesting.

SPL handbook can be purchased at your Scout Shop. If you look online you can find it in pdf format. TLT or Troop Leader Training has been replaced by ILST. It essentially goes over the role of each position and what they do in the troop. It does not do much to cover the Patrol Method. Try the new Troop Leader website. The Program Features helps you plan camp outs and troop meetings. Essentially gives you a template for these events. Program Resources gives you the games, skills and other things that you can use to fill in your meetings and events. Your Scoutmaster should be leading the training for all Scouts using ILST. If he isn't, share these resources with him and sit down and figure out together how you can use these resources. Share with your PLC. Teach your PLs how to use these tools and jointly develop meetings and camp out plans together. Use these and you will make your life easier.

I'm in IT and even I have a limit to what I will keep track of. Can't for the life of me understand the reason for hast tags or Twitter.

You must be related to the young man I referenced. He argued that, depending on when you are defining as the time period, the term "native" is relative. He then went off on all sorts of things like honeysuckle, feral hogs, horses, crazy rasberry ants (I had to google that after thinking he was puling my leg...wasn't) and a host of other things that are now "native" to our area that were, at one time, an invasive species. I learned more from that kid than any other kid in our troop. He is now the Nature MB counselor for the troop. His class is always packed!

One of the many reasons to get rid of MB "colleges". You simply cannot show, demonstrate, explain, etc., effectively in a group of 30 people. Was at one of these large group classes for Cit in the Nation a while back. 30+ kids. MBC says, "You cannot get credit unless you participate." So he asks, "What was the purpose of the American Revolution?" Then goes around the room. The entire room. All 30+ kids asking them the question. Each kid parroted back the exact same response...or in some cases worded differently but with the same meaning. #wasteoftime, #learningnothing.

To be honest, one has to ask themselves why they are in the various activities. I never joined a sports team asking the coach how we were going to win the title that year. I played because I loved the game. I played in band because (at the time) I wanted to be with my friends. Scouting should be no different. Be involved because you love it. Go on adventures because you want to be with your friends. Don't worry about making Eagle. If you do the first two things, making Eagle will eventually come. In my opinion, if you are just on the first step of your journey and you are already asking what the destination looks like, you may be missing the point of it all. IMHO the question you should be asking is, "How can I best help my son learn, grow and mature in the Scouting program?".

So here is what we've always done: Our Instructors teach the class on plants and animals for our first year Scouts. They take the group to a local park (200 acre nature preserve in our city) and hike the trail system, pointing out a select group of 20 trees, plants, shrubs, vines, flowers and grasses. The Instructors point out characteristics of each plant (e.g., Burr Oaks have huge acorns, Live Oaks are green year around, etc.). Scouts can use all their senses to identify these plants (e.g, the difference between Honeysuckle and Star Jasmine). Scouts take notes on these characteristics, trace leaves, draw acorns, describe smells or texture, etc. At the end of the nature hike the Scouts are cut loose in an area to collect evidence (using cameras so they don't violate LNT) of 10 of these 20-25 things. If they find something they cannot identify they can bring an Instructor and adults to the site to try to identify it. If they get ten they are done. We do the exact same thing for animals. We discuss "native" versus "invasive" but do not limit their list of ten to just "native" plants. Why? Because we had a kid one time that was a budding Paleo Botanist who proceeded to argue that very little in our area was actually native unless we defined the period in which we were investigating. Who needs lawyers when you have a well-read 12 year old who can identify more plants than the park's biologist? Guess who become the instructor for this course for the next 5 years?

The best leaders I know are guys who were not Eagle Scouts but were in Scouting. They seem to want to make up for their lack of ambition as a youth by diving in to Scouting as adults. A few need to be reigned in and the boys do stuff, but 90% are fine without that lesson. When parents start asking me things I simply tell them, "Please have your son schedule an SMC with me and I will be happy to discuss his status." I simply don't have conversations about advancement with parents. I will answer procedural questions of course. It's like not getting in to OA. I have no control over whether your son is elected in to OA or not. I have no control over your Scout's advancement status. He does.

While I agree the letters should be destroyed per policy, what Scout is going to ask someone to give a reference if they even suspect that person will give an even slightly negative response?

We do something similar to NJ: Eagle candidate completes all paperwork. Reviews with the Eagle coach for completeness. Eagle coach gives the candidate the information about the recommendation letters to be sent to the Eagle coach. Eagle coach collects the letters (or bugs the references if they have not yet provided them) and bring them to the EBOR. Our EBORs are made up of unit parents, one district liaison, our advancement chair and the Eagle coach. They are held at our unit location. Recommendation letters are destroyed and not shown to the candidate after they are used.