Col. Flagg

@@cchoat, you may want to add something to the introduction of your parent meeting. Many years back the SM for whom I took over for advised me to lead off with this: "Boy Scouts is VERY different from Cub Scouts. In Cubs, the parents did all the work. In Boy Scouts, the boys do all the work. They keep their handbook up to date, they work with the youth Instructors to learn skills and get them signed off after they can demonstrate mastery of the skills, they keep track of their camping nights and their service hours. Everything I am about to tell you has already been told to your son as part of our first year Scout program. This information is on our website. We have monthly troop committee meetings where this information can be questioned and/or discussed. Many of the new Scouts won't read, listen to or understand about 90% of what is told to them as part of this training without constant reminders. Ironically, many parents require the same. If you expected Boy Scouts to be an adult-driven, adult-monitored program with the adults constantly reminding the boys about what their responsibilities are, you are in the wrong place." Because we do this as part of open house BEFORE Scouts (and parents) join us, people join our unit knowing all this going in. We average 14-20 new Scouts a year, so this "disclaimer" has not hurt our recruiting one bit. It certainly reduced attrition to under 3%.

I had to laugh at the thought of BSA taking ANY technology and not screwing it up so much that it's inoperable and bloated beyond any real use. Their track records is not good. Scoutbook may replace some things, but getting folks to drop TroopMaster for Scoutbook (or SOAR) is not going to happen. Some will, most won't.

Requirement 9a says this.. So whether camping with his own troop, or another troop, as long as he is camping at a "designated Scouting activity or event" those nights count. So OA, NYLT, camporee, high adventure, summer camp, weekend camping, patrol camping, troop camping...all count. It's not disallowed. According to the Ask the Experts this is what is allowed. If the SM is disallowing using camping with another troop for the Camping MB, he's dead wrong. If the SM is acting as the MBC and is disallowing these camping nights, he's dead wrong. Of course, PROVIDED these nights were done as part of a Scouting event. The Guide to Advancement does not say anything about camping nights other than 1) they must be Scouting event/activity (noted above), 2) you can apply nights earned for Second Class and First Class ALSO for the Camping MB. This is one of only a few cases where "double counting" is allowed. So to be clear, camping nights applied toward Second and First Class can be used for Camping MB too. Your council should definitely know the answer. Then, they should be having a meeting with your SM to read him the riot act on making up requirements and restrictions.

Ex-military brat and military here. I cannot recall a year I didn't have at least one "annual" exam. Top to bottom, inside and out. Raised the kids the same way. Flight surgeons check everything. Makes you feel like they are doing pre-flight on you.

@@T2Eagle, I have "liked" many of the BSA sites on FB and Twitter, as well as Scoutingwire. These sites tend to post new things like this which has helped me keep up. Don't feel bad if you missed this new troopleader.org resource; it literally just came out within the past few months. In my opinion it's BSA's job to get this in the hands of their leaders. We are responsible for executing the program. The problem, as we all know, is that BSA has a rather disjointed communications and marketing approach. They could really use a good streamlining. Dean you may actually have seen something like that, but I highly suspect it might have been district or council developed. My district did something similar once for troops but many just used their own.

We had the same issue. They took the Troop Committee Challenge and This is Scouting and broke in down from the two, easy modules to 47,000 tiny modules. Stupid! We what did was this: For volunteers who had already completed the two modules, we credited them with all the new modules (which are actually contained in the original two) For new volunteers, they need to take the new modules. We did something similar for SMs.

Wow....I'm astounded at the inefficiency and pointlessness of that whole process. I'm sorry your council does all that.

Well, in this case, the one Scout has less than 20 nights camping; whereas the countless Eagles got their 20 and stopped.

If program planning resources is what you are looking for then try this site. BSA just pulled together several of their resources that were spread across their website in to one location. The Program Resources help with the actual detail of meetings or events. Program Planning help with the higher level, theme-like areas. For example, our unit picks monthly themes that map to core scouting skills or activities, such as cooking, climbing, archery, orienteering, etc. Each month the meetings reflect these skills. Our May theme is "orienteering" so we are using these resources to help plan our meetings and events. The detailed information helps the boys plan each meeting or event. Hope this helps.

Unless we've been doing it wrong, the unit picks the monthly themes. It is not like Cubs where they give you the monthly themes for each program year. Page 4 of this doc backs up this thought.

This was a very interesting study. For me this really underscores the need to limit the use of technology in the wild.

TroopMaster has gone web-based and is very user friendly. I have used Scoutbook too and find the new TM better. They have an app as well. You can port from my.scouting in to TM to make training management and other data easier to use.

My council does NOT to that. They do wring out the MBC list as others have suggested here. They do this annually.

My council does the same thing. You need to print the report or you can't get any rank or MB if buying for the troop. They will not accept anything else. No report, no badges.

Before you leave your old unit get an electronic AND hard copy of all of your Scout's records (rank advancement, MBs, training, camping nights, service hours, leadership roles (and how much time left in his current role) special awards, etc.). This is important so he does not start from zero at his new unit. This can impact everything from leadership credit to OA election. Make sure any medical data you've given the old unit is either given back to you or shredded. You don't want your SSN or other personal data in someone's filling cabinet or worse, just tossed in the recycle bin. Make sure you know if you are owed any money by your old unit. If he's sold anything and been credited money that should be given back to the Scout unless it was part of a troop-based fundraiser. Give back any gear he might have that belongs to the troop OR make sure you get any gear the troop or other Scouts may have of his. Have your Scout write a thank you letter to the SM, TC Chair, the SPL and the Charter Org thanking them for their support during his time in the troop. This is a classy thing for a Scout to do regardless of the circumstances under which he is leaving the troop.

In my area the problem is that Aug-May if you want to do anything at the council camps (swim, canoe, boating, shooting sports, etc.) you have to fully staff your own activities. Ok, not that bad. However, some time our camps' gear (especially for shooting sports) is not the best. Facilities (bathrooms, shower, etc.) are less than ideal too. Then distance is a factor. One camp is practically in town. The second is 45 mins north and not bad. The other two are over two hours away...and we have to go through city traffic to get to both. Competing with my council's four camps are one of the best state park systems in the nation. Yes, they cost more, but they are all have various activities where they either supply the expert or gear or whatever. Yes they cost more than using council camps, but there's far more to do in and around the state parks than around our council camps. The latter tend to be in the middle of no where. Perhaps the most damning fact is that our Scouts consider council camps "boring...except during summer camp". That's the tough sell. The boys would rather plan a great adventure at a state park than do the same at a council camp....and that's the bottom line for our unit. Requiring units to use council camps would end up with our unit sending a skeleton crew for a token event.

This is where we found transition planning helpful. We documented the processes, roles and responsibilities that occur on the adult side within the unit. This really reduced the time it took someone to get up to speed. We found having this, coupled with good training to cross-train and "on board" new adults, really helped reduce that "he's plugging the hole so why should I help?" mentality. Our experience was that we could reduce the number of "Martyrs of Experience" if we documented, trained and openly shared all that knowledge. That really took away that mystique of 20 years experience. Further, we asked the folks with 20 years experience to capture that knowledge, share and train the new folks. Most loved it. One didn't. He's now practicing self-crucifixion at the district level.

I agree. If you get someone who can't let go, they could upset that balance. Thankfully we have not had the issue. If anything, the former SMs have been huge supporters of the new SM, reminding other adults to sit back and let the new SM work his magic. The old SMs know how hard it is to have adults stepping in and contradicting their direction, so they will do what they can to have the back of the new SM. Any ASM or adult that cannot handle that role would be asked to find something else to do. Never had that issue yet.

@@Dmward, I think the risk to your troop, program and other Scouts is too great to allow this Scout to go forward in your troop. He simply has not lived up to the Oath and Law. As an SM I would not sign off on that requirement alone. It sounds like the word is out and the troop committee needs to take action, so signing off on the Eagle requirements is the least of your worries. If this were my unit: We would contact district and council, apprise them of the situation and ask them for advice on how to handle. We would let them know we were considering suspending or expelling the Scout from the unit. After talking to district/council, we'd have a meeting of the troop committee, including the Scoutmasters. The group would come to an agreement on what actions we are going to take. We'd likely suspend him from our troop for a period of 6-8 months, thus essentially ending his role in our unit. This would be communicated to the Scout in question and his parents. We would provide him with a copy of his records and wish him well. We would then have a parent's meeting to discuss the action we took. After that, we'd move on. Something similar happened many, many years back. This is how we handled it and it seemed to work well then. I wish you luck.

A big liability issue bringing such a Scout back in to the Scouting fold. Will he do this on a camp out? What risk is there to other Scouts? There's another side here: The SM's obligation to all the other Scouts in his charge.

One can forgive him and help him without rewarding him with an Eagle BOR. Most certainly help the kid. Just don't reward him for twice violating the law, his Oath and the many Scout Laws.

Folks, this Scout did not just break the Oath and Law, he broke THE LAW....TWICE!!! Let's not hide behind some convoluted interpretation of whether he met the requirements or not. His conduct was more than inconsistent with that of the Oath and Law. He not only broke on of the 12 Laws, he broke multiple ones...TWICE!!!! @@scoutldr said, be compassionate and help the young man, but entertaining Eagle in the face of all of this? That's a mockery of what Eagle is supposed to be.

Nice idea for some. Would not work in my area. Just too many other demands on time across the board. Once a month is all most can afford. Doing the AT should be more a function of his physical abilities and his Scout skills combined. If he were in our troop we'd evaluate him based on his ability to carry gear, meet the physical and psychological demands, and his ability to demonstrate needed skills (camping, hiking, first aid, cooking, etc.). If he met those, we don't care if he's Scout or Eagle, he can go.

In my area units with more Scouts actually tend to be more rigid about camping nights and limit them to once a month. I couldn't imagine an SPL and PLC of a large unit planning more than one camp out per month. If they do, it's a good bet it is adult run...at least in my area. No kid has that much time to spend on planning unit activities. Our guys take about a year under the new requirements to make FC. That's around right to make sure they actually know their skills. Of course, we are a medium-sized unit for our area...about 75 Scouts.

So let's say it is six camp outs. How can a troop that camps once a month have someone make FC in 86 days? You'd have to camp twice a month for that to happen, no?