Col. Flagg

Must be a regional thing. The LDS groups in my area are not dual enrolled in non-LDS units. They do their thing and us non-LDS types do ours. Other than RT I can't say I ever really cross paths with them at Camporee or OA or anything. There are plenty of units around but they just keep to themselves.

Wow, even in Texas we require at least a 20F bag. I could not imagine being north of the Mason-Dixon and not having at least a 20F bag. I'd be in the cabin too.

You didn't? I don't need to tell you what I think the difference is? That's supposing you know what I am thinking or what I am going to say. Your own words: "...nor should we be speculating about what a particular poster might say in a different situation". I know you are a lawyer, but if you don't see that you are violating your own advice then I want you defending me if I ever get arrested. You certainly have the art of interpretation down to a science.

I get confuse a lot, but isn't the role of Unit Commissioner to help the unit across a myriad of issues? The DE is just the admin person you'd go to in an effort expedite process, etc. No?

Curious, but why doesn't the SM have the time to meet with a group of new Scouts one-on-one? We've had as many as 26 new Scouts crossover. Each got the same personalized SMC. Yes it was repetitive. Yes it could have been done as a group, but it was far more effective one-on-one (well, two-on-one ).

I read some good advice today. Worth a read.

So when the word nit-picking goes against you the reply is "whatever"? Good to know.

Well, that's not true. this interpretation is made for a lot of Scouts every year. I have 75 Scouts, of which 35 will have this interpretation made for them this summer. High adventure is pretty clearly a "long-term camping experience" which is a BSA "event or activity". Interpreting it as six one day events or overnights is a bit disingenuous.

It will be blamed on the membership policy, which is a bit different than the membership standards.

Hmmm. So where does it say "same place" in the requirements? It simply says camp 20 nights at a designated Scouting event. It calls the long-term camp a "camping experience". So camping at Philmont does qualify as a Scouting event and a camping experience. I think interpreting Philmont as 5-6 different camping experiences is a bit much.

We exit interview the boys and at least one parent. Have done so for the last 10 years. 96% of Scouts leave because they simply are "in to" something else. It is usually sports, band or school. In our area these groups literally demand time from you. Band trips, extra practice, tournaments, even clubs at school all demand after school and weekends every year. The kids drops Scouts and other stuff so they can have at least some semblance of a life and some free time. The 4% that does not drop for the reason above usually drop because they are bored. Most of these Scouts weren't that engaged to begin with and, despite efforts to reach out, they simply just stopped coming. With 3% attrition on average over 10 years, that's less than 8 Scouts. Agree that no one liner is going to work to change anyone's mind. The only one liner I use is: "I wish you the best of luck in all your future endeavors; and remember to always give your best in what you do."

I've had Scout get hypothermic in the summer at Philmont, so if Scouts are not using the skills they've been taught then even prepared and skilled Scouts can have issues.

Meh.... From the Charter Organization Guide Rule Book: So it appears the units are owned by the CO, however, they are responsible for implementing the BSA program in accordance with the rules, regs and policies of the BSA. Sounds like you are both right.

Let's not forget, the long-term camping requirement ALSO applies to high adventure bases, NYLT and other long-term camps. So a Scout could conceivably go to summer camp, Philmont and NYLT all in one year (like my kid did) and only get one of those long-term camps counting toward their Camping MB or OA eligibility. (NOTE: Assuming they did not already have any other long-term camp previously being counted toward either of those things, then NONE of those camps count).

Or you can look at it this way: If all troops continue to struggle with engagement of their older Scouts, one way to entice them to continue to stay around and help is to offer up other activities for them to do AFTER they had done their mingling and helping of the younger Scouts. Same as with a service project, @@Stosh. If I have guys cutting down trees and other work, the younger guys are doing one thing, the older guys another (per BSA tools guidelines, er, rules). There's no reason the Patrol Method cannot be used in these situation in mixed age patrols. If one strives to follow the boy-led, Patrol Method as much as possible it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep older and younger Scouts apart, so mixed age patrols are a natural (read: non adult involved) occurrence. So if the PLC (without adults interfering) want to go caving and they can divvy up two activities, provide leadership, keep patrols together (albeit somewhat split) and still execute the boy-led/patrol method, who are we (adults) to step in and tell them they need to be the same age in the same patrols or that older scouts have to do the same stuff as younger scouts? If the boys can execute the PM and boy-led and get all this done, I don't see the problem.

If it's in the back country, you can't. If you are hiking in to a camp site (or out of) that would be okay. But again, that's hiking, not backpacking. I would not use the term "common sense" when describing how various people interpret BSA rules and guidelines.

So we hear this a lot, especially from the lawyers on this forum. Can anyone who supports this definition of "guidelines" versus "rules" point to where BSA says "guidelines" = "suggestions"? I'm of the opinion that, regardless of whether the title of some says "guidelines" or not, it is the CONTENT that should be taken as allowed or not. For example, just because the PDF title has "guidelines" in the title does not mean Webelos can carry and shoot crossbows or shotguns.

I was not impressed.

I agree with BackPack. We are signing off on both copies of their requirements. Pre-2017 Scouts get their original handbook signed off, as well as the 2017 requirement insert pages. We tell them to keep the latter in a safe place, some have even laminated them and we sign off with Sharpie. We went through a similar thing in 2010 when the requirements changed then.

Years!!!!??? Years to update!!!???? Is it matter of getting the stone tablets out of the ark in order to change them? Or do the specialized skills for editing stone tablets not yet exist? This is an example of a very easy, low-level task that could be done to keep folks properly informed. I don't think it is unreasonable for members to expect published information from the organization in which they are members to be up-to-date. This should have been planned for AHEAD of the announcement. Proof again BSA does not plan well, react well or adjust well.

I guess guys couldn't teach girls how to set up tents because that would be sexist too. I'm just waiting for the first SJW to attend an OA call out or ordeal and scream "Cultural Misappropriation!!!"

Well, if non-religious COs were the majority back then, it would have been stupid to reject them. I suspect this was when numbers continued to fall. See what THAT did. Are we expecting this current rejection/pendulum swing to do any different? Define "best thing that can happen"? Increased membership losses? Reduced revenue? Revised program (because if girls come in that's what comes next)?

Several units I know down there said the same thing. Got kicked out and could not find a CO. Many went to other troops but a large number of Scouts just dropped. Very sad.

We as Scouters don't see it as "program". The average parent is not going to distinguish it as we do. They see the whole thing (program, membership, policy, etc.) as "program".