Col. Flagg

Why would they need to make books gender neutral, take out "Boy" from "Boy Scouts" and re-do all the pictures to include girls? Just look at the clamor now about "inclusiveness" going on in schools. If they (BSA) didn't make these changes you could time with an egg timer how long it would take the next complaint about BSA to be logged. To your points: Girls in Pubs: I will grant you (an indeterminant) many won't care if girls are/aren't in the publications, if you will grant me (an indeterminant) many will care. Dilution of Brand: Agree that taking the word "Boy" out of BSA will degrade the current brand. It is unclear what a re-branded "Scouts of America" (copyright Col. Flagg 2017) would mean to everyone. Not a Merger: Correct it isn't, but it *is* a wholesale change in the direction of a former boys-only organization. Assuming the local option is what comes, you are still fundamentally changing the program. We had the discussion a few pages back about "administrative" versus "program" changes and I would argue you cannot separate them. Administrative changes (change in requirements) can affect the execution of the program substantially. Not sure I follow the cookie argument, but sure, I will take a cookie.

Try this for help. Just call them crews. They will split up as needed and just call themselves C3344a and C3344b, and so on.

ROFL. So I did, but since I neg repped already once today it said I hit my quota.

I am not aware of a patrol-like organization. Below is how most Crews I know are structured I guess the closest thing we have are the officers which functions like a PLC. We have committees from time to time which basically meet to organize events and such, but they are not like patrols. Of course, we are small (16-20) so maybe larger Crews are organized like patrols but I have never seen that.

It's easy to be dismissive of this issue unless you've been a camp director. Try pushing 500 plus people of single sex through old, communal, inadequate facilities and stay on schedule for 7 weeks. Now try to do that with another two shifts (adult women, youth girls). Ever wonder why program and dinner runs late at many camps? That's why.

I pointed this out a few days back. BSA would have to re-touch any logo that had the name "Boy Scouts of America", to something like "Scouts of America". Not a major design change, but anything branded "BSA" or "Boy Scouts" would have to be re-produced. All materials would have to re-worded to include girls or make gender neutral. When you think of the plethora of program and training materials this covers, it is quite a large sum of money that would need to be spent. This does not even count the re-work you'd need to do for photography to work in girls, in uniform or otherwise, doing the various activities. Then there's uniforms. That's a whole different problem.

I think this is right. Troops in our area have been used to crossovers in December-February. Their entire first year Scout program is built upon that approach. Last year's requirements changes in both CS and Boy Scouts threw them for a loop. They now have to totally revamp their first year program. Several units are still trying to hold on to their old method which simply isn't working. HQ clearly did not think through the downstream impact program changes related to rank and requirements would have on Packs and Troops.

+1 for no media. You never know how someone will spin story. If a crime has been committed contact the police or an attorney.

My local camp spent over 150k to install and upgrade 5 bathroom and shower facilities in ONE camp. I think your estimate is quite low. concrete slabs run $1.88-2.25 sq. ft. Cement runs $5.50-7.15 sq. ft. It's $4,500 just to pour a low-end cement slab 20x40 (our current standard communal bathroom/toilet slab size). Add the steel beams, roof, plumbing, trenching, sewer access lines, water, etc., and you are well over $5k per facility. 3-5 facilities per camp and you can see where 150k gets spent in just one camp.

On most boards neg reps are usually for things @@Sentinel947 notes, not for disagreements in opinion or fact. They are also used (again on most boards I have used) to denote when the neg rep feature is being misused by a user. Since I gave a recent neg rep (to someone who neg repped me), and did so contrary to board rules, my apologies. If there's a defined usage of neg reps for this board we might need a sticky...or a reminder. I think that's the only time I've neg repped someone.

Thanks Craig. That makes sense. It would be interesting (at least for me) to hear what they would have thought of the other two options. Our PLC ran a straw poll a few weeks back at the results were interesting. The younger Scouts didn't want girls in. The older Scouts did, but only 20% of them favored such a move.

Yes, it does. Because it gives them the option they have today (no girls) and a second option to open BSA up to more girls, but not necessarily in Boy Scouts. Curtailing the options engineers the outcome. If you want dessert, but I only tell you all the appetizers and entrees and then you see everyone else sucking down a sweet dessert while you eat something you didn't want, you'd be pretty ticked off. A neg rep? Really? Figures.

Thought this was timely given the discussion around B&G and crossover.

Check this out. It might help with patch placement. The LNT patch is a temp patch and can we worn accordingly. I wear mine in a plastic emblem holder rather than sewing it on.

We have to pick our fundraisers carefully since there are so many units locally. BSA units selling the usual council-level stuff tend to tread on each other, making profitable fundraisers hard to come by. Also, it seems most of the usual fundraisers are incredibly labor-intensive versus the ROI. Popcorn is the worst. Popcorn: Can't sell because we compete with a dozen Packs around us. What person is going to buy from a spotty teenager when they can buy from the cherub-faced Cub? Our sales have always been miserable so we gave up. High degree of management, low ROI. Xmas Greens: Good for us. Few competitors. Low management and fulfillment. Decent ROI. Camp Cards: Debit card-sized discount card for select vendors locally. Usually tagged directly to one of the big supermarket chains so that if you buy one you get your money back (% discount) immediately if you shop at the super market. Low management, zero fulfillment, high ROI. Flowers: We have a local vendor who sells flats of flowers (think Home Depot but cheaper and better). $20/flat with $8 back to the Scout. One day fulfillment, high ROI.

They are still around. Smart to use a pea-less whistle for emergencies. I have one I use for emergencies too. Great whistle. Definitely a loud whistle.

Curious, but why didn't you give them a fourth option and ask them if they wanted to remain boys only? Or a fifth option saying girls could join Venturing at 11 but Boy Scouts stayed boys only? It seems the questions engineer the answer that may have been desired, rather than giving them ALL possibilities and ask them which they truly prefer.

Agreed. There are a few units with 120+. You should see them leave on a Friday night for monthly camping. It looks like a small Company of mini Marines heading out...complete with the (adult) Major(s) leading them. No way a 15 year old SPL could manage a unit that large even with 10-12 PLs. We've always been between 60-70. While I'd like fewer, could not reduce size without making waves with the TC, so we've stayed at that level.

I was going to say....10 miles per day in that area with gear and food is a burning pace for anyone over 40. Not that I'm sayin' you're over 40. What's your start and end points? Waynesburo?

Most of the troops in my area average 75 Scouts. Several are 100+. When the stop accepting Scouts it's because they've already taken 20. But that whole "join before we close down recruiting"' approach is back-firing on them now. Parents are realizing that the "hard sell" is stressful and unnecessary. The key to recruiting is knowing each year how many Scouts you can take. If you know how many Scouts you will lose to aging out and attrition you can identify how many you need to recruit.

@@SouthernTierScouter, I also noticed that jpg and gif files didn't work. It was png or nothing. Maybe that was just me. I was using PhotoShop to compress and size, so I know the software used to create them was not the issue.

Recruiting in my area is done like a fraternity rush. Many troops have used this method for years and aggressively pursued Webelos during the fall. Many times troops will close off recruiting and stop accepting Scouts as early as December. Because my area is so (needlessly) competitive, families buy in to this crappola and sign up early. The irony is that if the troop does not manage the application submission correctly (e.g., hold off submitting applications until the Scout has been awarded AOL) they can actually screw up the kid's advancement. We take a different approach. We don't set a limit of how many Scouts we will take. We recruit year around, so that we aren't just showing up and asking for Scouts every October. We offer to help with the Cub program, help at meetings and Den Chiefs. This approach has lead to a steady stream of 15-20 new Scouts every year. I agree, March is the perfect time to cross. No one wants a brand new Boy Scout going on a January or February camp out where they may not be properly prepared.

Troop is providing the Honor Guard for the local July 4th concert in the city center. We also put up over 200 3'x5' American flags on 8' flag poles around several contiguous neighborhoods in our area. Quite a sight!

I did 100x100 and saved as png and that worked. Did not try 200x200. Did that work?

Is this like Mic o Say?