Col. Flagg

WB-trained Eagles or regular Eagles do not mean anything. I think we have all seen folks who are WB-trained, have fifty knots on their chest but are world-class micro managing, adult-led, bulldozer parents. I made the mistake long ago about equating years of service, level of service, position, training or "He's an Eagle" as persuading that person had more idea of what Scouting meant, or how to implement it, than I did. How wrong I was. Arguments for the Patrol Method: It is the only way to do Scouting. Anything else is NOT Scouting. Scouts sign off on advancement AFTER there is a program put in place to train them on how to teach core skills, ensure that sign off happens after EDGE is demonstrated and mastered, there is a method to check consistency either at the youth or adult level, and adults understand their role in the process. Scouting is NOT about who are the best leaders. It is about learning and growing. You WILL have bad leaders. The SM's job is to put in place a training program that lessens how bad "bad leaders" are. This includes recognizing Scouts' strengths and weaknesses, helping them address these AND having those supporting the leader help him to be successful and not just walk away. Family camping (currently) has no place in Boy Scouts. It erodes the patrol method, encourages helicopter parenting, robs the boys of leadership opportunities and growth. If you must have a family camp pick on camp out a year and invite family members. Otherwise if adults want to attend camp outs give them an application, make them take a role as an ASM and give them a concrete duty to perform that takes them out of the boys' hair. I really don't envy you this task. It sounds like the parents in your unit are overly involved. Ours does not sound like it was as bad, but it did take us a while to cut the collective umbilical cords.

Yes, the CO owns the unit. Yes, the CO approves the unit bylaws, operating procedures and other non-BSA processes and procedures. HOWEVER, the CO is NOT at liberty to call an audible on stuff that's part of the BSA program that they don't like. Being CO does NOT give the CO the right to change HOW the BSA program is implemented IF it changes the foundation of the program. Involving themselves in who gets elected and how that election is run is one of those foundational components. @Back Pack is right, if my CO did that we'd go from 75 Scouts to 0 in about two days.

Well, for your first question, I would always remind folks it's called BOY Scouts. It does not matter if the boys vote for the All-American SPL or for the class clown. It's THEIR decision! Period. It is just a matter of the SM and TC Chair buying in to this approach AND making sure any adult leader buys in to this too. If they don't, invite them to find another troop. We did this and only lost two ASMs...and they were not guys we cried over losing. For the second question, the only adult's opinion that should matter on this issue is the SM. If Bobby does not want to be JASM then everyone has to trust that Bobby knows how to manage his own schedule, demands, needs, etc. The SM (or the training ASM) should know each Scout's strengths and weaknesses, and be able to work with him to determine what's best for them. Others may not agree. If they don't, have THEM step up and run the program to train and teach and mentor these guys OR have them be SM. Sounds like you have some ASMs that are either too impatient to let boys learn, too frustrated to watch them learn, too uninformed to know how to help the boys or a combination of all of these. Keep doing what you are doing. You know what to do. Don't give up on the boys (I know you won't).

That's a real problem @Eagle94-A1. IMHO, only the SM can help the boys drive regular PLC meetings and other youth-oriented/led meetings. It is also up to him to institute the leader training and mentoring. If he isn't/doesn't want to do this would he be open to someone else (you, maybe?) doing it? Maybe the adults jumping in can help design and develop the training and leadership mentoring programs? We developed an annual troop leadership training curriculum, as well as process-based training for various roles (think: old style JLT). We did this for instructors, PLs, SPL, QMs and even scribes. By the time they were done with training they knew (and had checklists for) their jobs just fine. To address the adults getting involved one of my former SPLs came up with this: Have a "code word" between the youth leaders and the adults that means "Please leave and let me handle this." In our unit the phrase was "I've got this!" After that was instituted, any time a Scout came to an adult and said, "I've got this." the adult HAD TO step aside, go get a cup of coffee and let the Scout handle things. The only time this DIDN'T take place was in the event of a health and safety issue. To this day, this process has worked GREAT. It took about 18 months -- and a few ASMs leaving -- to get this accomplished, but it works.

One thing to be careful of is bringing ANY knife to summer camp if outside your state. We went to summer camp the first year I was SM at a camp several states away, so we needed a bus to get there. I was busy doing all my pre-camp prep (logistics, etc.) when I happened to catch an old, old thread here about knife length and state laws. Turns out that if ANY of our Scouts had a knife anywhere on the bus that was 3" or longer they were violating state law in one of the states we were travelling through. A quick inquiry to the state police confirmed what I read. In short, anyone with a BSA pocket knife would have been in violation of that state's law back then. The state police's solution? Put them all in one bag and have that bag at the front of the bus in case we get pulled over. Oh, and the bus did get pulled over. We showed the trooper the bag and told him why we did it. He said, "Ya'll are a well-armed troop!"

To me leadership was always involved a few key elements. Natural Leaders: These are the guys who will run for various positions because they are just natural leaders. These types need little encouragement to step up and lead. Shy Leaders: These are the guys who can lead, but just not in the obvious positions like PL or SPL. Oh they *could* do it if they wanted to, but it is so far outside their comfort zone it paralyzes them. Odd thing is they have no problem being an Instructor to 15 guys or running a QM session for the troop. They just don't want the weekly attention in front of their patrol or troop. Non-Leaders: These guys don't have the natural ability of the first group, nor the hidden ability of the second group. They can be taught to lead, but they are better followers. This is probably the largest group of guys. They will take a position but find it easier just to let other people do it. As SM, I thought it my job to make sure mentoring and training were in place for all of these guys in order to teach them how to be leaders. All of this was based in the Patrol Method. How Does This Relate to the OP? Leadership cultivation by the SM is KEY!!! You have to be able to recognize the various leadership types and qualities early AND you have to cultivate them early. For example, our current SPL was a wild child when he joined with few friends, however, he proved to be gifted in adhering to process and procedure, as well as able to synthesize decision-making issues faster than his holder peers. I knew he would be SPL one day, it just took some development. This is where SMs (or their delegates) come in. Have a program in place to mentor young leaders. Actively make that part of your program. Identify guys early and do away with arbitrary restrictions (e.g., have to be Second Class or 13 to be a Den Chief, or other rubbish like that). Encourage rotation of positions. Develop NEW positions or responsibilities for senior Scouts (e.g., JASM). I can tell you I trusted my JASM corps with 90% of what most SMs would use ASMs for...and they got it done better and faster. Didn't mean to pontificate...just offering my experience. EDIT: Re/Adult Interference...If I can paraphrase something I have seen @Stosh write a few times, "Invite them to have a seat in the back of the room or around the campfire and give them a cup of coffee." Unless the kids are running with scissors or about to offer a sacrifice, the adults belong observing. If opinions or advice needs giving, it should be agreed upon through with AND through the SM how/who will delivery that information.

You are a lawyer AND a journalist? If you run for public office you will have the trifecta of "people with the lowest credibility". (Well meant jab/joke) My unit insists that ALL adults (leaders or not) pass a criminal background check. We put that in the bylaws years ago and the CO backed us on it. If people know that's a mandatory thing they either 1) don't join our unit, or 2) don't ever hand around events. We found that was the best way to avoid such issues. A local unit didn't do this and lived to regret it.

They won't have to wait very long for those girls to be in their troop/patrols. Then it will be the girls looking at the guy at the Trading Post. Of course, that's the not only scenario (not that there's anything wrong with it.).

I feel for the Boy Scout troop that takes her son if she is still like this then. Hopefully she will change. Experience says she won't. She's bitter about something and everyone around her is suffering. What bothers me the most if the impact on the young man. Her son is going to miss out on sooooo much because no one is going to want to deal with his mom. THAT is the travesty in all of this. Best of luck getting the result you need. Stay strong!

I wish I could rep this 1000 times! That's EXACTLY it, @Stosh (see, still works ). It is a game. She doesn't care about the outcome, only the process of throwing stones at ANYTHING and seeing the reaction.

Just have the new girls joining Scouts bring their fixed blades. They will legalize them in no time. @RememberSchiff that's a joke. No need to move to IP.

Kick her out...keep her son. He sounds like a good kid despite his DNA. I cannot say I have ever had a parent attempt to get pack meeting dates, times or locations moved at the Cub level. Den meetings? Sure. But then we usually invited the griping parent to "host" them...that usually shuts them up pretty fast. If she cannot pass a background check that's a MAJOR red flag. I would not let her alone with any adult or child. Never.

What is this "UC" person of which you speak? Uniform Coordinator? Unit Cashmonger? Utility Codger? Since 2005, I have only seem them come out to feed during FOS season. After that they must hibernate from another 11 months.

Yup, same here. And guess what? The DE, along with the whole district committee, was trying to sell the units on -- now get this -- making sure the events at camporee where "Cub Friendly". Those were their EXACT words. Then they spent about the rest of the meeting discussing the age appropriate matrix and asking units to sign up for age-friendly games for the Cubs. My SPL leaned over and told me we'd have to reschedule our April camp out, as there was no way in heck he could sell to the troop going to an event where we were essentially hosting events for Cubs. I followed the ensuing discussion on the troop's WhatApp thread. As expected, the PLC revolted and now, instead of going to Camporee, we are doing a high adventure canoe trip. I received the email to let our district know "thanks, but we're going elsewhere" from the SPL about an hour ago. God I *love* when boy-led, patrol method works.

ROFL. Okay. Whatever you say. Odd how in their 100 year history BSA hasn't bothered to market pink girl's t-shirts (or any other girls shirts beyond those for female Scouters and Venturing) before. But you're right, of course, it's just happenstance and driven by a very sudden realization that there are girls on the planet and maybe they want a Boy Scout t-shirt in pink. Regarding parents or family, same issue here. If you think the sudden emphasis on family is simply about "family access" then that's your prerogative. BSA's recent history of saying one thing and doing another says otherwise. Time will tell just how far this whole "family" issue goes, but we are already seeing it in my local units. Just last night at RT there were questions about how the district plans to integrate "family" in to upcoming Boy Scout events like Camporee. Don't tell me "family" is about access anything other than making the Boy Scout program eventually in to a coed, integrated program. It is happening...now.

Always. You can move whenever you like. Just make sure you take copies of any advancement work the boys have done with you. Also, the new Pack should NOT charge you for dues since you have already paid in your other pack. Transfers are usually $1 and done at the council office. Some packs may have "join fees" but those are usually few and far between. Cleaning up a messy pack is a hard enough job for someone who has a Scouting background and knows how a pack should run. Doing as a newbie is effort best spent elsewhere. Lastly, your district executive could intervene and address the issues with the pack leadership. However, if you do that someone will get their nose out of joint that you tattled. IMHO it is not worth the pain.

Agree, Stosh. While JTE is a (poor) attempt to show units how to track items that impact unit quality, the things they measure, their method of "measurement" is really lacking. For example, "Have an effective plan to recruit Webelos" is just a statement. The Bronze Level metric is to hold two events with a pack...but how EFFECTIVE is that as a measurement of whether your plan is good or bad? We have all seen units make Gold that are really lower quality units than others that just make Bronze.

@Tampa Turtle, just for you...;) FYI, Alice is WB trained.

My recommendation would be to: Set up an area of camp where people requiring any type of electrical connection for medical devices can bunk. That way you have them all in one area. To keep noise pollution down I would try to set up this area as far away from other campers as possible. If required, have a men's and women's area. I saw a set up like this at a camp on the east coast. The tent camp was behind the dinning hall, near the health lodge. The drone of the CPAP machines at night was drowned out by the A/C units and ice machines at the dinning hall. Our camp was about a quarter mile away and you couldn't hear anything until you got within 50ft of the camp site. I gotta say the drone of the CPAP machines was louder than I expected. As a former camp staffer, I would say that the camp should not have to offer this service. I think you go down a slippery slope once you make such an accommodation. I suspect there might even be increased liability should you offer the service, the electricity goes out (with no battery back up) and someone (God forbid) dies as a result. Best advice is what others have said here: Don't offer the service. If folks cannot sleep without CPAP then perhaps a week at camp is not in their best interest.

So you think that there's no relationship between a youth organization for boys offering a pink, girls t-shirt through their supply shop and their subsequent move to allow girls is unrelated? Riiiight. BSA has history of this slight-of-hand behavior, as well as their ambiguous (read:disingenuous) communication style. You can choose to believe what you like, but you're sticking your head in the sand on this one.

Here's the rub with LDS units pushing their 14 year olds to Eagle: Most LDS units that manage their Scout-to-First Class boys have ZERO clue on how to manage Star-to-Eagle. Why? Because S-to-FC is one distinct LDS unit type with leaders trained in managing that segment. The Star-to-Eagle guys are managed by a different set of leaders who know the whole Eagle process. Unless the LDS units send those leaders experienced in navigating the road to Eagle, those leaders who don't have the experience will make things up as they go along. We have gotten a few transfers from LDS units over recent years. Once they spent time with our unit, each kid said their old units literally just signed off on stuff. Maybe my unit was just lucky enough to get those few LDS Scouts who were not well trained or managed. Or, just maybe, it is a larger issue. I suspect the latter given my interactions with other unit leaders over the years.

You are expecting BSA to be specific, purposeful and direct in their communications? You know better. Mike S. and his band of merry men/women are channeling Mr. Subliminal in most of what they are peddling. But if you look at a few issues of Scouting there are articles and pictures depicting families doing non-Cub stuff. Their last 3-4 covers haven family camping, family hiking, family canoeing, etc. Great. For Cubs I love it. But what are the chances of 5-6 covers in ANY given year being dedicated to family stuff? Just a quick perusal of the past several years and I can find 2 from 2010-2016. In 2017 there are 6!!! Coincidence?

The Guide to Advancement, page 52 (7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges) lays out what you can do. Forget your district. They don't want to help obviously. If it is like my district it is run by LDS folks, so they may not want to make waves for their LDS units. Call Council. Talk to the advancement chairman. What this unit's adults are doing is essentially giving way Eagle like it's a rec sports participation trophy. Council needs to know what is going on.

Given his emphasis on letting guys just hit the trail and "be boys", his penchant for the outdoors, and his stated aim of making Scouting available to all boys (not just those who can afford it), I think he'd have a few things to say about helicopter parents, Scouter-focused entities, bloated budgets and salaries and the diminishing emphasis on outdoor skills.

Disagree. In all the social media posts and magazines they manage, they had pictures of families doing Scout stuff together...and not just at Cub-like events. Go back and look at BL and Scouting magazine for the last 6-8 months. Go back and look at their social media pics and posts. If BSA didn't mean to make Boy Scouts more family-oriented, their publishing group did not get the memo.