The Latin Scot

Just a song and a haircut, lol.

Just finished!

Well, there had been a number of similar organizations appearing all over the country in the years prior to the BSA's founding - the Woodcraft Indians, Sons of Daniel Boone, etc. The Boy Scouts of America simply conglomerated the majority of them into one organization, giving it an immediately large starting population already. Such groups had been making headlines too with the success they had been having and the good it was doing for boys across the nation, so by the time Eldred was ready for the first Board of Review, Scouting was already square in the public eye.

I trust you can sort it out properly; I only hope it doesn't take away too much of your time to do so! But I would like if these more heated discussions be moved elsewhere so that this thread can maintain the integrity of its subject matter. Thank you.

That's why I make my own; the ones sold at the Scout Shop are nice, but still not very attention-grabing. For use in Den or Pack Meetings, I like something big and colorful that is easy to track progress on; all the details I keep in my own personal chart in my notebook, but for the basics - the steps towards rank - I just use a big bright poster that even the youngest Scouts can read.

I am so sorry to see that this thread has degenerated into a war of ideologies and attempts to put down the beliefs of others. I say, let's take these discussions either to private threads or elsewhere, and leave this thread to the original topic. Our Church is pulling out of the Boy Scouting program, for various reasons - animosity towards the beliefs of others is not one of them. our diverging beliefs cannot be allowed to breed contention, anger, or judgement. If we cannot respect each other, even and especially with our different beliefs, then neither the values of the Boy Scouts OR the LDS faith will mean anything. If I may quote our first prophet Joseph Smith Jr., Let's try and look towards way we can build bridges, not walls. I regret that this thread has turned into such a dispute of beliefs, when the point of it is to see how we can continue strengthening our communities even when our paths diverge.

That sounds similar to how I have understood things too. Can I ask where in CA you are located? I am in South Orange County and we have about 18 registered Scouts; I am impressed you have 30 total!

I use them, and they are ABSOLUTELY beneficial in every way! They let the boys see their progress, set personal goals, and conceptualize their progress as a den and as individuals! I have a picture here of a chart I made for my parents who are Wolf Den Leaders. As you can see, it's simplified, only measuring their path to the rank of Wolf - this makes it easier for the boys to understand the chart. Obviously, our personal records are much more detailed, but the chart is not only bright and colorful, but we mark their accomplishments using sticky notes, meaning we can just remove a child from the chart and replace his information with that of incoming Scouts as the year goes by. Quick, easy, engaging and effective - and it only takes about an hour and a box of markers to create! If I have time and remember later this week I will show my new Webelos/Arrow of Light chart too.

BORING. So bland, so simplistic yet without elegance or sophistication. I couldn't imagine a less interesting graphic.

Great, thank you! Um ... what exactly is the "flash?" Sorry I have never worn a beret before, lol.

Any chance you could share the technique?

I have! Sending you a PM now!

It's cute that you pretend to know him so well, but unfortunately for your position I have read too much of his words to believe this. And you make it sound like all visionaries and leaders would have supported this, when of course there are many visionaries and leaders who oppose it. Being either one of them, and supporting girls in Scouting, are of course entirely unrelated. You can try again though if you like. Amen to that!

Be that as it may, I will ensure that the boys in my Webelos den get every ounce of benefit I can squeeze out of Scouting until the minute we switch to the new program - including preparing them to cross over into the Boy Scout program. Even if they don't ever go into Boy Scouts after this, I feel it would be cheating them out of essential and valuable lessons if I watered down my program just because we won't be continuing with Scouting in the future. So in my den, Scouting will live on at least for another year and a half - and for boys this age, that can still be a mightly long time to make a mighty big difference.

In that case, the man you claim to know is nothing like the man I have come to know and love. I have read everything there is on Lord Baden-Powell, and if he was anything, it was a man of principle and integrity. You can throw his name around in an attempt to add weight to your argument if you like, but don't expect those of us who have read his literature and studied his ideas to agree with your assumptions about what he would or wouldn't do or believe if he were still alive today. If anything, I assume he is grateful not to be around today as the organization he was inspired to create buckles under the whims of public opinion. It's certainly not something he would have done.

I was a 13 year-old Eagle! Of course, that was all the way back in 1998, so it may not be viewed as relevant today, but I admit I mildly resent all the remarks about a 16 year old Eagle being "worth more" or "better prepared" than we who were a few years younger when we completed the requirements. And mind you, of all the boys who earned their Eagles in my Troop the same year as I, ALL of the rest were 16 or 17, yet I am the only one who went on to attend a good University, the only one with a clear career direction, and the only one still actively involved in Scouting. So be careful when you put down the little Eaglets! We may look small in the moment, but we take the things we've learned and treasure them deeply the rest of our lives. You can never judge an Eagle's worth by age alone! Funny side note: I was still in high school when this thread was started! Good grief this website is older than I realized, lol. 😄

My problem with this line of thought is that it presumes that girls think like boys, learn like boys, and respond to the same things boys do - and the simple fact is that they do not, because they are not the same. Sure, the benefits of Scouting are just as desireable for the one as they are for the other, but the paths by which they get there won't necessarily work as well for girls as they do for boys. Some may think differently, which is their right, but I know girls and boys are inherently different - thank Heaven for that. And frankly, I have never trusted public "trends." Too often, the sway of public opinion leads only to disappointment and regret. So I am more than happy to stand against trends that I feel are erroneous if it means I am still standing by my principles in the end.

It is indeed from the French, I want to say mid-17th century but perhaps earlier. The roots are certainly Latin though, as are those of most French words. And I confess I do use it casually; technically, it should always be followed by of, but I tend to be generous in how I use prepositions with foreign terms. Sadly my French isn't as fluent as my Spanish these days, but I still try to color my dialogue with as much of it as I can without sounding too pretentious.

UGH! Those options are terrible! How are incoming ladies expected to correctly place their insignia when there are no standard pockets by which to judge placement? Are they going to re-write the guide to uniforms and insignia entirely? And on WHAT body are those hideous shirts supposed to be flattering? The BSA has a serious problem with sizing already, as all of you have already noted. I had to get my shirt custom tailored because my long wiry arms looked preposterous in the huge flapping sleeves of a YOUTH LARGE, which, mind you, was the only shirt with a torso size which fit decently on my trim shoulders. Luckily the re-fitting was a success and it looks okay on me now, but pants/shorts/whatever - those are all WAY too baggy on me, even with a waist size that fits. It's discrimination against slender folk like me I tell you! I am built like one of Tolkien's elves and there is no garment sold in the Scout Shops which appropriately accomodates my slim physique. It's a conspiracy I tell you!

Well, looks like I won't have to worry about the new neckers after all! Which is fine by me since I love the classic blue and gold, and will be happy to simply pass on the old yellow ones, even if the red does make a little more sense what with the matching color schemes and all.

I think J. R. R. Tolkien expressed my feelings best in regards to the coming changes, and my place during and after them: “It is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set, uprooting the evil in the fields that we know, so that those who live after may have clean earth to till. What weather they shall have is not ours to rule.” I find these words touchingly a propos for me now.

This sums up many of my own feelings, and I want to clarify a few things. First, we aren't here to please others, @gblotter - we're here to do what we think is right. As Gandalf observed, "all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." Next, I am not one to beat a dead horse, and I feel this topic is starting to circle in that direction. SO! A few brief thoughts of my own: 1. Many of you have expressed kind words on my behalf at this coming change. However, you aren't done with me yet! We have a solid year 1/2 to go in Scouting, and I intend to give my 100% right up to 11:59 PM, December 31st 2019. That's a lot of time to make a BIG difference with the boys in my care! I fully intend to be the single most involved Den Leader right up to the last minute of my tenure, so save your good-byes for next year - for now, you're all still stuck with me! And I love that phrase of yours @gblotter - There is life after Scouting. 2. I just experienced the most WONDERFUL weekend at our council's yearly Scout-O-Rama event. Such an amazing turn out! Hundreds of Scouts, parents, community members and volunteers all supporting the Scouting movement - I know Scouting may be struggling in many parts of the country, but here in Orange County, CA the movement is having a lot of success still! I had a blast running our booth (a giant chessboard - always popular!), and I made lots of wonderful connections that will continue long after our Church pulls out of Scouting. 3. Speaking of Scout-O-Rama, I was approached ALL THE DAY LONG by non-LDS unit representatives asking if I would be 1. their den leader (3 groups) 2. their cubmaster (2 groups) 3. a unit commissioner (1 group + a district executive) 4. a committee chair (2 groups) and 5. a roundtable commissioner (2 district executives). So clearly, if I want to continue Scouting after next year, I have options! I had no idea there were that many people who even noticed what I have been doing in my Den, but come to find out, my little program has been getting a lot of attention lately (too much perhaps if you ask me ) 4. I should be clear that I am a very traditional Scouter. I support a boy-only camp experience if possible, and a program run as closely to Baden-Powell's original vision as possible. I believe boys and girls are different, and that their gender is a part of their divine nature which has been a part of them, as with all of us, since before they were born. So I do not believe Scouting can fuction at its full potential if it is compelled to work for both boys AND girls using the same program. It won't work because they are different, and if Scouting is going to push in that direction, than an amicable separation is preferable to any attempt to compromise closely-held beliefs, whether mine or theirs. There needn't be contention; there needn't be conflict; their needn't be animosity - our organizations can continue to support and encourage one another, even if and when our core values diverge. THAT is the very essence of good citizenship and community.

No, just ..... no. You just made me a whole lot more comfortable with my Church pulling out of Scouting. And what is it with you guys and your huge necks? When I wear the standard issue neckers the ends are so long they plummet past my belly button! How big are you people?! I thought being 5'8 and 160 lbs. was average but I can't imaging how a necker as huge as the old ones would look on me! Although I do see how they would be far more useful. I could use one that big as a blanket, a tablecloth, a parachute ...

I do want to share our church's official position of the family, gender roles and other beliefs that will help those here understand better why we cannot continue to support the new BSA program changes. Hopefully it will make it clear why we want boys and girls, young men and young women to have their own programs which will support and nurture their own identities; whether or not you believe as we do, I think it is well to make sure that the separation is amicable, and that the friendships we have established continue to the benefit of our communities and their youth. Understanding where we stand, just as understanding where the BSA now stands, is important. This proclamation of our doctrines on family and the nature of gender should help those who are confused by the Church's new direction: https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true I will try to monitor this thread as frequently as possible for the next few days in case anybody has questions that perhaps I can either answer or at least direct to where answers can be found. And again, I intend to be the most active, loving and engaged Den Leader I possibly can be until precisely 11:59 pm, December 31st, 2019!

LDS units form a HUGE percentage of Scouting units in the Western region especially. States like Idaho, Arizona and Wyoming, and large portions of California and Oregon have exceptionally large numbers of LDS units. I am sorry to hear you have had those kind of experiences, but in all my time Scouting as both a youth and an adult, and having observed the MASSIVE size and rich dynamics of Scouting in thickly LDS areas like Utah and Idaho, I can say confidently that, in the majority of cases both historically and regionally, LDS units are powerhouses both in membership and advancement. The Utah National Parks Council is the largest in Scouting, and they do amazing things there. It's been pointed out already, but for over 100 years the Church has supported and enriched the Scouting program. Don't count on too much crossing over into non-LDS Troops. The new activity program will inevitably be as involving and fulfilling as Scouting has been for the past century, and there will be a huge, worldwide coordinated effort to implement it entirely without leaving much time for Scouting as well, and besides, this new direction will absolutely deliver the same benefits to our youth as Scouting has in the past, so the need to do both will become a redundancy. Now, I am of course looking at this with eyes looking towards a bright future and a heart filled with optimism. But make no mistake - I am also grieving in a way that I cannot even describe with words yet - not that the Church is leaving Scouting; no, we will be fine and carry on as ever - but I am heartbroken that with all these new changes, the Boy Scouts of America, as conceived by Lord Baden-Powell and nurtured and cultivated by the likes of Beard, Seton, West, and Hillcourt - is dead. It is a new, gender-neutral program which will continue to wither away with each concession to popular opinion. And its most powerful of all beliefs, the idea that boys need a program all their own to help them grow into better citizens, leaders, husbands and fathers, has now been made to look as old-fashioned - if not irrelevant - if not even "inequitable." And it's the boys who lose when the rights to their own program are taken from them to make way for the girls who do not learn as they do, and will by necessity bring with them changes to accomidate their unique natures. The BSA has now made a powerful statement - that girls learn just the same as boys, and so they should get to enjoy the same program, which should be made to teach both genders the same. The Church firmly stands by the belief that boys and girls, and men and women, are inherently different from each other, that gender is an eternal part of our divine nature, and that men and women have different needs and learn in different way in order to best fulfil their roles in the family. The Boy Scouts of America has now effectively moved away from this belief which for over a century it fought to protect, and as such, it no longer aligns with what we believe. It will be a bittersweet separation, to be sure. But the Church's doctrines and principles have never changed, while those of the BSA have. I personally am sorry to no end that these changes have been made, and that the program no longer offers the best options for out youth. But they have taken their stand, and now we have to take ours. Mind you - we have until the end of next year before the change, so you still have another 18 months with me! And unlike some others I know, I don't plan to drop off the face of the Scouting planet. It will always be a part of me, and I will always care about how the program continues, even my time and energies will be needed elsewhere.