Ankylus

One of the problems is that BSA has to make rules that apply to EVERYONE. It is apparent that your boys are sufficiently mature and responsible that they can camp "on their own" like that and do it safely and well. But there are a lot, and I mean a lot, of boys in scouting that are not able to do that. And it's not necessarily a function of age. We have a good troop with good scouts, but still a lot of them have a lot of problems. There's no way I am taking some of those boys camping and taking any kind of responsibility if they are going to be camping on an island 200 yds away. I hear what you are saying, and I agree to a large extent, but you just can't do it with some of these scouts. And so you can't do it with any of them.

First, you need to choose the troop that is the best fit for your son, not for you. If it's not a good fit for him, then you won't be able to keep him active. I agree with all of your points, but if my son was enthusiastic for that troop and his friends were going there, I would let him. I believe there are really two factors. The first is personality. Every troop has its own personality and it needs to be a fit for your son. For example, one of our local "super troops" is extremely regimented. They have a uniform inspection before every meeting, which requires full Class As, even down to whether their fingernails are clean. If they fail the uniform inspection they are not allowed to attend the meeting and are sent home. That's important because they also have attendance requirements. Neither of my boys would have been happy in a troop that regimented. On the other hand, some of the local troops are very slovenly about uniforms and standards. They wouldn't have been happy there, either. You need to make sure that the troops personality is a good fit for your son. The second is friends. Your son will stay active in scouting longer if his friends are there. Not all of them, obviously, but enough to have a core group. For that reason, both of my dens decided on a troop together. Both dens had a couple of scouts who didn't go on to scouting in that troop, but overall most of the dens went to the same troops. Interestingly, the first den stayed tight and is tight with one another to this day. The second den has grown apart, but they are mostly still in scouts. For sure you have to trade these off some. But in my opinion those are the two primary factors. As for your feelings on the matter, I do not mean to imply that they are irrelevant. To some degree, your opinions are more informed and educated. But don't confuse that with what is best for your son or what your son wants to do.

Part of the problem here is that national, as well as parents, wouldn't allow this to happen. The same is true with a lot of "adventure" in light of the Guide to Safe Scouting. And of that is that we just live in a different society. We have to find different kinds of adventure.

It's more than just "outdoors", it's "outdoors activities". If you take the scouts to the park to work on their NOVA award or their STEM stuff, of to give them some kind of a presentation, it's still too much like school. School is for school and scouts is not...not that learning can't happen. But sitting a bunch of boys down to receive yet another talk by an adult isn't going to cut the mustard even if it is outdoors.

I agree, but with a twist. To me it's not so much rural vs. urban, as it is outdoors vs. indoors. The scouting program is trying to be all things to all people...you know, jack of all trades and master of none. That dilutes its core strengths. I do tons of SM conferences, and I always ask, "what is your favorite thing" or some variant. All the boys, without exception,enjoy the camping. Nobody has ever said, "the STEM activities" or "the NOVA awards", anything remotely approaching that. There's nothing wrong with these being available program, but the emphasis that the national organization puts on them is just nuts. The boys love camping and other outdoor activities...we need to focus the program on that.

Just one last comment...we have several scouts who are on the autism spectrum and are very difficult in many ways. We flat out tell the parents that they have to be present, esp. on campouts, if their son is to participate. This is precisely one reason. Also, we don't ever want to be in a he said/she said situation should anything come up. You might consider that, and then the parent or guardian will be there to take care of that.

Not to my knowledge. And to SSF's point, there was some bad blood between the scout's father--a registered ASM who just wanted them to do things the right way--and the troop. In fact, one reason my youngest son did not go to that troop was the kind of thing that this scout's father was having to do. But I will say that neither the CC nor the SM are in leadership positions in scouting anymore. So maybe there was something done behind the scenes.

There was a scout in my oldest son's troop. A fine young man, and a great scout. He had always served in leadership in his troop, including SPL three different 6-mo terms. The problem was, none of them were while he was Life. His senior year of high school he was busy as drum major of the band, and didn't realize that fact. Nobody at his troop caught it either. In fact, his troop's review of his record resulted in them telling him he was good to go when he wasn't. And then, of course, he was within 6 mos of his 18th birthday. SM refused the conference because he didn't meet the requirements and refused to sign off, as did the CC. The scout appealed, and Council granted the appeal. But there's an example of why a SM would refuse the conference.

Belladonna, In our troop, it has always been the responsibility of the scouts' families to plan and present the ECOH. We obtain the room from the CO and the time, and everything else is up to the families. We have developed a somewhat "standard" program: (1) opening flag ceremony. (2) words of greeting from the CC. (3) presentation of the Eagle scouts by an adult of their choice. Usually, there is talk about the scouting career and personal vignettes and how worthy the adult thinks the scout is. That kind of thing. We don't have any standards for content. (4) presentation of the Eagle charge. (5) presentation of the Eagle "regalia", including mentor and parents' pins. (6) words of acceptance, gratitude, and advice from the scouts. (7) scoutmaster's minute. (8) and finally, the closing flag ceremony. As to the printed program, (1) the cover usually has a large depiction of the Eagle badge, a list of the Eagles, and the time, date, and place of the ceremony. (2) a picture and a bio of each Eagle. Bios are usually a page or two. (3) transcriptions of the Scout Oath, Scout Law, and the Eagle Charge. (4) a list of famous Eagle scouts. But there is no magic in any of this. It is your (plural) ceremony. You may structure it any way you wish. One of my son's friends didn't even have the ceremony. Your circumstances may make some of this a bit more challenging. But surely you can find three scouts for the flag ceremony, adn any adult can do the rest. Invite the whole troop. Worried about people with hard feelings? Invite them, but don't give them any chance to participate. Modify the program accordingly so they don't have an opportunity if you don't want them to. Besides, the ones with the hard feelings probably won't come anyway. Then just relax, enjoy , and have fun. And welcome to the forum and congratulations to your Eagle.

My bigger issue on this point is--it's difficult enough for an 18 yo scouter to be considered and respected as an adult leader by the boys in the troop. Why make it more difficult by wearing the same uniform they wore as a youth? My lesser issue is that some things are reserved for the youth and some things for the adults. Kind of a privilege kind of thing. So let the boys enjoy wearing their rank patches and let the adults enjoy wearing their knots. My bizarro issue, what you going to do when some adult wants to wear his Star or Life rank patch? Or maybe they just don't like the look of the empty pocket and start sewing the Scout rank patch on there? Still, all in all, I don't have much of an issue with any of these scenarios.

This is a classic uniform issue for me where I would be so glad they are volunteering their time that I wouldn't care about that uniform difference. If the Pack could get one for her, fine. If she gets one herself, fine. She's happy, I'm happy.

Spot on. For example, the Colombian is now a registered leader in our troop. The issue is, when she wears her BSA uniform, is there some way to recognize her achievement as a youth in Colombia? And I think @Eagles94-A1 got me my answer. I do find the notion of a "square knot" recognition using a catch-all square knot to be a fine solution, as well. Can't imagine the paperwork national would require for that, though.

So, what are you saying that is actually relevant to the post? That people who accepted draft deferments cannot be good boy scouts? Or that he wouldn't have been a good boy scout as evidenced by the fact that he accepted draft deferments? What's the connection to scouting in your post?

Btw, we remind scouts once or twice a year that the blue card has three parts and that one of those parts is for them and their records. We spend a bit of time on scouts' independent record keeping and slow trailing the troop's records to make sure they are accurate and up to date. Does them a bit of good in life to understand that things can go wrong in record keeping.

Yes, we have experience with that. We are in the largest council in the country, and our district at one time was the largest district in the council. Plenty of resources, right? Well, if so, they weren't spending them on tracking MB counselors. Our CC is a very detail oriented guy. We routinely recruit MB counselors and have a fairly large number of them. And he spends a LOT of time correcting District and Council on who our registered counselors are. They miss people who have signed up, they wrongly take them off lists, they also aren't always good at purging people no longer participating. It's a mess.

That's too bad, because if he has a peanut allergy it could kill him. You need to know that so you can help him be vigilant and be prepared should he make a mistake and consume peanuts. Happened to a scout from our troop at Philmont. He survived, but it was a close thing.

I am in a profession where, basically, "deadlines are for meeting". By that, I mean that the important thing is that you make the deadline. Should you plan ahead and allow plenty of time? Yes, but sometimes it just can't be done. As for the accountability calendar or whatever, I see that of utility. We all know the deadline is the 18th birthday. Are you going to deny advancement because the scout didn't do the work on the timeline you thing he should have? It's my understanding that you can't. So, in the absence of some form of punishment, how do you make the scout work on your timeline? You don't. Unfortunately. Yes, it would be better if they were all organized, but I would rather see the scout who earns his Eagle receive it.

That was the official headgear when I was a youth. And how I hated them...the most useless piece of headwear yet devised. I wouldn't join that troop for that very reason.

There is no discrepancy in our approaches. Edit: We have to acknowledge some religious differences because of, for example, dietary restrictions among the various religions. I don't see how you get around that if you have a religiously diverse troop. On the other hand, we treat it no differently than, for example, dietary restrictions from allergies. We can't just pretend these differences don't exist while accommodating them at the same time.

"Male" is a biological concept. There is no "male" or "female" that is not biologically grounded because it is a biological concept. I understand what you are trying to say, but whether one is male or female is determined at conception. There are statistically extremely rare cases involving genetic abnormality in which an individual may be both male and female or neither. To the extent the meaning of "legally male" diverges from "male", it is an invalid concept. Even in the case at hand. They don't call the child a "boy", they call the child a "trans boy". Because everyone knows the truth even if they are living their lives in denial of it.

Hmmm....well, I'm not sure we are.

Well, let's think critically here. Without more, it had to be known by someone or the entire issue would never have come up. It was clearly known to Pack leadership, or the entire issue would never have arisen. So, by those people, and by their definition. Which, if you read the article, was never challenged by the mother. And if you actually read the article, it says right in it that the child's status was known: "Kristie Maldonado said she was stunned because her son had been a member of Cub Scout Pack 87 in Secaucus for about a month and his transgender status had not been a secret. But some parents complained, an official from the Northern New Jersey Council of Boy Scouts told her — even though her son had been living as a boy for more than a year and was accepted as a boy at school, she said." So the article itself establishes that the child's status was commonly known. Also, from a biological standpoint, the definitions of male and female are quite well established. I don't understand hat the rest of your screed was about.

That is a red herring, a classic diversionary tactic. The fact remains that the child is known to be a "trans boy", whether by DNA test or admission.

The blue card also includes segments for the boys and the counselors. Either of those should be acceptable. Or, if the counselor has independent records or is otherwise willing to sign a new blue card, your golden.

I have heard that JTE will be phased out (abruptly) for another program just as JTE replaced the "Quality Unit" program. I agree that there probably isn't an official rule on the original question. My guess is the general rule that the only Cub Scout awards wearable on the Boy Scout uniform are the AOL and the religious award would trump your desire here. That being said, the scout should wear it if he cares that much unless his new troop give him too much grief about it. I wouldn't blink in my troop even if I noticed, and I probably wouldn't notice. I've alway wanted to wear them all at one time, kind of like having an arm band of the things, because why not? Not supposed to do it, though, and it seems to me a bit braggadocios.