JosephMD

Scouts that started it in 2015 can continue to use the old requirements until the end of 2016 he has completed the badge. Edit: I must have been thinking ranks

I used to suggest that scouts have a couple of 5 mile hikes under their belt, especially the scouts who were a little more round, but I really haven't seen very many of them. Although I'd still recommend they do a 5 miler or two, the less round scouts generally had no problem going 10 miles cold. More power, after a long winter indoors, I can have a hard time doing 10 miles these days! Staging can be helpful, but if that was the mission, wouldn't they require the 20 mile hike be done last?

Scouts that were hiking this weekend took about 2 hours 45. In a perfect world, sure, they'd get it in after school, but, they don't. Not confident enough, don't live in a place that is good for walking, parent won't let them, or whatever. That's kind of why I've been doing it the way I've been doing it as it tends to be just enough to satisfy everybody by looking like an organized activity, but I didn't do any organizing. Maybe it was just my way of helping the scouts get around their lack of confidence, mom's anxiety, etc.

New Requirements (relevant to the discussion) 4 - Take the five following hikes, each on a different day, and each of continuous miles. These hikes MUST be taken in the following order One 5-mile hike Three 10-mile hikes One 15-mile hike You may stop for as many short rest periods as needed, as well as one meal, during each hike, but not for an extended period (example: overnight). Prepare a written hike plan before each hike and share it with your Scoutmaster or a designee. Include map routes, a clothing and equipment list, and a list of items for a trail lunch. * Old Requirements 4 - Make a written plan for a 10-mile hike, including map routes, a clothing and equipment list, and a list of items for a trail lunch. 5 - Take five hikes, each on a different day, and each of at least ten continuous miles. You may stop for as many short rest periods as needed, as well as one meal, during each hike, but not for an extended period (example: overnight). Prepare a hike plan for each hike.* I've been a hiking merit badge counselor for a while now. Not being one to organize merit badge classes, I tended to just let a couple of scouts hike 10 miles here and there and get a hike plan out of them. Usually, one scout would plan the hike, and any others that wanted to come along I'd give them some basic info and tell them to write a hike plan. I think this in order thing is probably going to keep some scouts away from the badge. If some scouts have done their 5 mile, and someone joins the group late, they won't get credit for a 10 mile hike. For me, you get to hike 10 miles, so what, you'll get credit for only 5, but scouts, especially younger scouts will probably feel a little cheated, so, they will be less likely to even bother joining in. Maybe, I'm just used to the way I've done it. Not that I've signed hundreds, not even tens of completed blue cards, but I had a system that could be driven by the scouts and they could do it however they wanted. Went on a nice 5 mile hike on Saturday though. One bonus, is that scouts can double dip that hike for their second class requirement if they use a map and compass. Maybe that was really the plan, but they could have accomplished that without forcing them to be done "in order" BTW, I didn't copy and paste it, but there is still the 20 mile hike requirement, you can do that first if you want.

Why does bugler drop from the list of Positions of Responsibility for the Eagle rank? Why only bugler? Is there an officially stated reason? What are your thoughts? Disclosure, my son is a bugler, not a very good one, but, he can do taps and almost play a few other calls. If I were his SM, I wouldn't count it for anything. Fortunately, he is a good OA Troop Rep. The if I were SM my expectations for the bugler PoR would be: Attend more than half of the troop's camp outs and at sound calls at the direction of the SPL (work with the SPL to understand the calls you know and when they are appropriate) Play, Reveille & Taps + two other calls from the list used in the bugling merit badge (I'd really like them to be To the Colors and Retreat, and hear them at flags, but I wouldn't be that specific) Sound like an unreasonable expectation? Kind of feels like my thoughts on the subject are over adult-ing but then again, for PoR credit, there should be expectations.

You are right when you say it is a major adult run operation. That is more of a dislike for me than the cost, one of the reasons why I was more interested in being staff than ASM. Council designed units of a specific make up doesn't seem ideal. There is the practical side of logistics and timing. I'm sure we've seen our troops take more than a reasonable amount of time to form a patrol and select a patrol leader, imagine trying to do that with a bunch of scouts from around the council and have it make any sense. There is a group of scouts from three units that wanted to form into a patrol for jamboree. They were told no, but that the council does try to group contingent troops by location, so, they might end up in the same troop / patrol, but they really didn't provide details. That is all well and good, but what if it were a group of NYLT staffers from all corners of the council that had that idea?

5 days! It'll be more like 10. My employer is considering allowing 5 days as overhead that he can write off, but won't decide until right before. Our council is charging ~$2300 to go to Philmont. Wow inflation and then some, when I was a scout in 93, I went for $750. My son wants to follow my footsteps to Philmont, but unless the scouts in his unit really up their tolerance for high adventure, he'll probably do the OA Trail Crew. Back to Jamboree - OA Staff 16-20, $450 or $475 - #operationarrow - there's another option for our youth, bypassing your council's overhead.

$850 for staff - it would be interesting to see how they came up with that number. I know when I do a budget, I'm expected to provide every detail. $1250 council contingent fee I'm sure it saves a lot of money being just a few hours by bus from the Summit. Also, being in the National Capital Area Council, there is no need for a tour of DC as we are around it all the time. It seems like a lot of further out councils add that to their Jamboree trip. The $950 participant fee is the bulk of that. The bus and the swag that I know about can't account for the $300, so I'm sure there is some council overhead in there somewhere. It is not cheap, that is for sure, I've spent less on 10 day vacations for 5 of us. If a scout can't afford to go, many councils have options to help them. That's why I buy all of those over priced fundraiser patches!

I don't know if they'd have that experience, but I do know that my son has penciled in the World Jamboree in 2019 on his schedule. I'm a little disappointed that his only chance to go to a World Jamboree as a youth and it will be held in the United States, but my wallet will be happier I'm sure. He has a couple of requirements he has to satisfy for me to help him pay for that. 1, he has to improve his French & 2, I expect him to remain active with his troop through the jamboree, and 3, he will need to have a better fundraising effort than he's had so far for the National Jamboree.

I don't think you have be in either camp permanently. I personally don't like crowds or a lot of people, I'm really not in my element there. But isn't that one of the things we do to our scouts, take them out of their element so that they can have experiences that they wouldn't ordinarily have? On the other hand, I've been known to strap a backpack on and head into the woods on an old trail that probably hasn't seen a person all year.

IIRC the scouts can have more time to complete their rank, as long as they don't start working on the next rank. An answer to your question though. Scout Socks! Their hat or neckerchief / slide for the next level. Kind of depends, some packs include that in their dues and do it already.

Yes - they do need two different uniforms. I'm no board with that. I have two, one as a MC, long sleeve, and one as a CA (I'm assuming CA means, Chapter Adviser, right), short sleeve. My lone arrow of light knot was recently joined by a scouters training award someone handed me a while back. I have mixed feelings about uniform bling. It can be a conversation starter with our youth, or it can just be a distraction, or, something in between. At round table, there are folks with so many knots that if the wore the world crest it would be on the back. As an adult, I find it interesting, some of them have good stories behind them, but not sure how the youth see it. When I was a youth in the 80s & 90s, seeing a scouter with 4 or 5 knots was a lot. One scouter I know has his meeting uniform with a ton of knots and special insignia, and another for camping.

I might get me a Jac-Shirt one of these days. I'm not sure what I'll sew onto it though. A philmont bull for sure, and probably an OA back patch, maybe the one from my youth. I've seen some that do the sleeves just like their scout uniform, CSP, Unit #, Position etc. I actually think that looks like of weird, but I get it at the same time. Until I drop the cash on a Jac-Shirt, I'll live with my red lodge fleece. haven't sewn any patches on it ... yet ... strongly considering it.

We treat them as completely independent courses. My district had an ILOS scheduled on a weekend that I could do it, and they cancelled it, but fortunately, a neighboring district was having one the same weekend and I was able to get into their course. I'm not in a rush to be an ASM or SM, but it doesn't hurt to be trained for the jobs. I suppose that could spin a different discussion, should MCs be doing ASM stuff like I do? I guess it really depends on the MC.

In another discussion, somewhere, I was having, or reading, this came up. The latest venturing award recognition uses the left pocket where the rank would go. For a venture scout doing both, it seems that they would have to choose. I think there was a consensus in that discussion that the uniform policy hasn't caught up, but wearing the rank pin on the left pocket flap was probably the right way to go if the scout wanted to display both. This was actually one of those questions that I had no good reason to ask. I still have a couple of years before my son turns 18, I was just curious. My son's crew has no uniform requirement. The adviser does wear one, but nobody else did. Mine wanted the uniform, I think it had a lot to do with NYLT and his otherwise busy scout calendar, many of his fellow NYLT staffers are venturers and wear the national uniform, and, he'll be staffing that then heading to his troop summer camp with only about a 12 hour break in between.

Pack trainer is a great idea! But, as my wife has found, why is it so difficult to get cub scout leaders even basically trained? The training is online, and doesn't take that much time. I will say, it is not the best training, it may even be somewhere south of good, but it is a lot better than nothing. Our district still does in person training, but interest is fading. How a pack trainer can help? Get the word out, personal invitation, follow up, meet for breakfast before hand. I've actually never been to a Pow Wow or University of Scouting, those are usually my wife's thing, but what great resources for cub scouters to go beyond what is offered online. The two biggest reasons stated as to why someone didn't attend: 1, I didn't know & 2, Nobody to watch the children. #1 is easy to solve, #2, not so easy these days. But a pack trainer, getting the word out, organizing the pack leaders to attend together, putting together a car pool, would be a lot of help. I kind of got off the subject. Maybe pack trainer isn't for everyone. The idea is, a non parent volunteer helping in any role is a big plus, and those that have done it for 5 years should know the program in be in the best position to be the most helpful.

I think it was less about him wanting to go with his troop friends, and more that he didn't want them to miss out on something he thought was so awesome, like, the National Jamboree. Complete strangers is good too. He enjoys that a lot as well. When he arrived at NYLT last summer, he knew no one there, when he got home a week later, he had friends from around the council, I was surprised at the number of scouts he knew from other OA chapters when he went to the next fellowship. I look at staffing several ways. In some ways, it is selfish, I want the experience, and my job, combines a hobby that I have done a lot less of as I've grown to be a more active scouter. But I also want to give back to the program. Lets face it, it is expensive to be a staffer, but, I was able to get it into the budget. It takes a long time commitment from work, and I often lose vacation time at the end of the year because I often use compensated time from late nights and weekend work when I take days off here and there. My boys get a lot out of scouting, from others that put in hundreds of hours per year to make it work. I know I can never personally give back at the collective level given to my sons' program, when my time and treasure can be put to good use giving back, I'm going to do it. Yeah, big ticket is rough on the wallet. He does fundraise, but not at the level that would cover everything. I'm happy that OA high adventure is available - summit experience this summer $250 compared to $749, it saves a lot, as does the summit for us, again, we can drive there, which saves a lot (also have property and family in WV, not real close, but makes a good place to crash for a night). Of course, he does plan to go to every high adventure base, and for at least one, he'll go while the rest of us go to the beach!

I don't think our lodge does OA Call-Out ceremonies at summer camp. They are generally done at district spring camporees or district campfires, by chapter ceremonies teams. Different chapters will have different levels of involvement, and it will come and go depending on the chapter. I think it was good for your team to do this job for your lodge if they wanted to do it. The lodge can't force them to. If they want to do it again, they should work with the lodge to figure out a solution that works for everyone. It seems that the lodge really wants a quality ceremony and they didn't get that last year. Someone probably thought that the way to fix it was to have a one size fits all top down solution under strict supervision. That could work, but it isn't the only way. Perhaps your team can take them up on their offer, but as a team, not as individuals, and show the lodge committee running this what they can do and how they'll do it, maybe even take a few suggestions form the lodge on elements they would like to see included or done a certain way. If all goes well, request the date when your chapter has the most district units at camp. One thing to consider ... your team may be asked to train other teams, perform multiple dates, and / or run the committee next year!

In 2013, I took my two sons and nephew on a day visit to the Jamboree. I must say, it wasn't really a great experience. Mainly, with limited time at the site, and thunder storms shutting things down multiple times while we were there, a lot of time was spent doing nothing. My younger son, wearing his cub scout uniform, got a lot of attention, just about everyone with a patch of some sort gave him one. Apparently they don't see many cub scout in uniform visitors there. On to 2017 - my son signed himself up, I found out about it when I got the e-mail for parental permission. Then, he told me I wasn't allowed to go. He is looking forward to it and has set his goal for earning Eagle to be before the Jamboree, in fact, he wants his Eagle CoH before. He seems to be on track for doing that, but, I guess we'll know when we get there. He really worked his unit over to get his fellow scouts to join him. He was hoping for 8, a full patrol, but only got 4. His age is such that he only had one opportunity to go to a Jamboree as a youth, and this is it, my younger son will have the same problem. So, after talking it over with my son, we decided I could go too, I'm just not allowed to bother him too much! I volunteered to be on staff and I'm really looking forward to it. It was a decision I actually made during one of my woodbadge weekends. I'm fortunate that I can drive to the Summit in a reasonable amount of time. Hopefully some of the other staffers in my area can coordinate schedules and we can car pool. This is making for an expensive 2016 though, as I'm paying for this summer's activities, and Jamboree all this year. The scouts are fundraising too, we'll see what they can muster, but the payments are due when they are due!

Add this to the "how did I not know about this!" column. There is an NYLT trained strip. I'll have to inform my son, and he will want 5 I'm sure!

Maybe I'll read the entire thread at some point. But first I'll add, that our lodge youth made a decision last year that when having patches made using lodge funds, those patches should be made in the USA. That really isn't hard as the quantities we generally deal with we get the best prices locally anyway.

Curious, what is the take on the "unofficial" knots on the venturing uniform? I'm not talking about spoofs, but the third party knots that can be bought online with the dark green backgrounds, representing Eagle, Arrow of Light, etc.

How many cub scouters would like to have one extra non parent volunteer? You might not get one, but you can be one. I knew when my son was a tiger, that I wasn't cut out for cub scout leadership, but my wife was in her element with them! I look to my mother as the example, she was my bear den leader, and the assistant webelos leader, and when I bridged, she became the cubmaster for two years (I had no younger brothers). Then she became a unit commissioner for several years, until she got really busy with girl scouts with my little sister. There is always room for an assistant cubmaster or assistant den leader or an active committee member who can organize an event or two. Tiger parents can be very overwhelmed, being a tiger den leader can be really helpful in getting those new parents up to speed, and turn over the den leader to one of your capable, and trained, tiger parents when they bridge into wolves in the spring. I see the troubles with leadership turnover through my wife's role as a pack committee chair. This is my advice to her, to encourage leaders to put in just one more year. Besides, if they were planning on jumping into an ASM role with a troop, putting that off a year can give their sons a chance to grow into a boy scout and be less dependent on mom or dad.

I'm taking Scoutmaster / Assistant Leader Specific Training on Saturday. I'm looking forward to it. I think I know it all already, but I'm sure I'll learn something. I've been trying to get this course in for almost three years or so. Either they were on days that I wasn't available, or I'd sign up and it was canceled, or, some how, I just missed it on the schedule. I managed to take ILOS a while back, enjoyed that as well. I don't think I'll be a Scoutmaster anytime soon, and I really don't want to be an assistant at this time, I like my role as a member of the troop committee handling advancement. I do act as an ASM often as the troop's ASMs can't put in the hours and weekends that would really make them effective. I suppose I should note - working on my woodbadge ticket in my advancement member of committee right now.

Oh, I also have a ladies extra small. It actually looks like a good size for a webelos scout, but I don't know if that's the best idea. Yeah. That was the first thought, but then again, it is really hard to know with new scouts to the unit. Her unit basically does, if you get a campership from the council, you can qualify for assistance from the unit budget too. From what we've heard, there were some problems with the unit not having good standards for financial assistance, and people taking advantage of the programs. I suppose adding something to the new parent orientation, "if you can't afford a uniform for your son, we have a few to offer" wouldn't be the worst idea in the world.