maryread

Yet there are people in the BSA community encouraging we start these programs. Currently my BPSA group has more boys than girls in it. We're fairly new, and not very large. The boys in the group are not Cub Scouting as well (not that I haven't encouraged it). The other BPSA in my area is quite large, and also has a good amount of boys in the group. There's a big difference between my BPSA group, and our Cub Scout pack though. Cub Scouts is always a much larger event when we get together as a pack, there are lots of kids running around, the energy is different. BPSA is focusing on more of the scouting activities and ethics BP had envisioned.

legacy. Scouting is built into our constitution, with our President as it's leader. It's important. It's not what I want, it's what the youth want. Heck, our state accepts 2 lifeguarding certifications. Red Cross, and BSA. I'm a reasonable person, and I'm going to help out the best I can with my BPSA group. I just still don't see a problem with the girls in our pack officially participating and being recognized for their achievements. They're already there, they're already doing everything with the boys if they want to. And it seems that most packs in our district operate the same way. I feel it's worth at least testing it out.

Why was it that you returned to BSA after having a poor experience with it? http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2016/03/03/photos-scouts-meet-president-obama-to-deliver-report-to-the-nation/ ​

Funny thing is the pack in the article thought they were doing everything above board. When they started piloting the Lion program years back they had been wrongly informed that it was part of the Learning for Life program (co-ed), and had a girl interested and signed her up. When it was time for the boys to move up to Cub Scouts, they did, she didn't. She would still do everything with the pack. They came up with a plan for LFL groups to work in conjunction with Packs and Troops, and had this plan approved by their Area. They had been functioning as an independent den within the pack. I'm unclear of exactly what happened but someone higher up got wind and it's ending very soon. Most likely because it gained attention and the BSA needed to take a public stance on the matter. So the thought of co-ed isn't absurd, it's something that's actually been approved by an Area. It's worked.

Very impressive Great to hear she'll be in the marathon! The starting line is a just a couple of miles from our house, we watch it every year. ​ ​

Yeah, but if I don't try and save the world, who will? In all seriousness though, I can't help thinking of myself as a child. Unless there is someone like me offering co-ed scouting type programs all over, there will be girls missing out on the experiences. BSA groups are everywhere.

I understand what you're saying. And to be honest, the making money part of your suggestion was the biggest turn off, but I have a feeling it would be encouraging to BSA to follow through with it. I've actually been building my own handbook. I'm technically chartered through BPSA but it's been tough working through them, I can't get ahold of anyone in the central organization for information. So will probably be moving forward as an independent group. Plus I'd prefer to not have to follow male/female leader requirement for co-ed groups. But BSA is a great organization. And to be fair, BSA is awarded special privileges in this country (even allows them to discriminate). They have the resources and support to produce the program that they do. I can pour my heart out into building a program but doubt it would ever be as appealing to youth and parents as BSA is. Why not start something similar to explorers/venturers for younger kids? PS- your wife sounds like my hero

Sounds like a great idea.

I don't doubt this. Just because we have lots of female leaders in our pack, it doesn't make it better. That's just how it's worked out, we have a real hard time getting anyone to volunteer. Although that may be in part to the current CM's lack of trying (I'm due to take over in April, I've already filled 3 positions that have been vacant for the past year) I'm definitely the most adventurous out of our group. I've had so much push back just by trying to get the pack to use mess kits vs. disposable paper products. The kids don't help with cooking or cleaning up after meals. They're very coddled. But yes, I'm in Cub Scouts, and have yet to experience Boy Scouts. I can understand how keeping them separated at an older age would be beneficial, but I see no reason why doing so in Cub Scouts is necessary. Keep dens unisex, pack co-ed.

Pretty much how I would picture it going. I really can't imagine BSA filling up with girls just because they're allowed to do so.

Going forward, if things were to change, I'd say absolutely. They should be afforded the same benefits, including liability insurance. To be honest, BPSA does the male/female leaders. If they're both present as kids, they need to both be there as leaders as well. If it's something that BSA felt was necessary, I'd be all for it if it meant heading in the right direction. It can be somewhat of a hinder to be honest, and I'm not sure I feel the need when 2 deep leadership is already required. Having the siblings participating currently isn't anything new for our pack I believe, it's been goin on long before I've been there. I'm not positive if they're covered, they'd be covered just the same as the parents, if they are. We tend to be very family oriented, parents are always there with their kids along with any siblings. They're allowed to participate in pretty much every activity we do as a pack. Not sure how it works for liability for district activities, they must be covered for that stuff, especially the summer camp. I've tried looking it up before, and I read somewhere in these forums that as long as their included in the head count on the activity plan submitted they should be covered. Still not something I'm 100% on.

The fact is that the girls are already there in our Pack. They can participate in almost everything we do, they're already doing it. There's no boy/girl separation. They can participate in some district activities, in our summer camp program. They're just not recognized for their achievements.

Let's just say that BSA allows girls to join, and Girl Scouts still exists. Do we really think they'll be flocking to join BSA? Just because a ballet class allows boys, doesn't mean that it will fill up with them. I would like to think that most girls would still like to continue with Girl Scouts, because they do girlie things, things that most girls are attracted to. I would have preferred BSA, but that's because I liked to do the things that were generally associated with boys, and liked hanging out with boys. I wasn't like most girls I knew. If we were to take Boy Scouts out of the picture, do you really think there is anything wrong with co-ed Cub Scout packs? Den moms are not a new concept. Once girls are done with Cub Scouts there are already other options through BSA for girls. If we were to be open minded I assure you there would be a way to integrate girls into Cub Scouts that wouldn't hurt the integrity of Boy Scouts. Why not add all female Troops while maintaining all male Troops? I'm not sure I see a downside to that option. About leaders, we can barely fill spots as it is. We do have dads in the Pack with scouting backgrounds but they're so busy with their jobs that they are unwilling to volunteer. Our women leaders do at lease 75% of the work, easy. Cubmaster, Committee Chair, Treasurer, Registration Chair. All positions vacated by men and filled by women because they're the ones willing to give their time and effort. It's not about changing Girl Scouts to be more attractive to most boys, or BSA changing to be more attractive to most girls, it's about allowing them to choose which path they would like to travel down.

To be fair, I've read Scouting for Boys and The Wolf Cub's Handbook​ by BP and the current Cub Scout program is a far cry from his original program. That wasn't brought on by girls, it was brought on by BSA evolving to match the interests of today's kids. To increase registration. BPSA comes much closer. I'm actually also a Scoutmaster of a small BPSA group but my Cub Scout siblings want to be in Cub Scouts with their family. The argument of having girls being a distraction while administering safety instructions became invalid when homosexual boys were welcomed.

As a girl growing up, I much prefered to play with boys, to do what most would consider to be activites for boys. I still do. There's no way I would have signed up for Girl Scouts as a kid, even if they did more outdoor activities. I hated skirts for one, I threw temper tantrums whenever my mom tried to put me into one. But the biggest part was because I loved playing with boys. I loved getting dirty, climbing rocks, fishing, ANYTHING that brought me outside and allowed me to challenge myself. But I was lucky. My dad was generally not in the picture, my mom was busy trying to support my sister and I. Seeing that we were lacking in mentors, she signed us up for the Big Brother Big Sister program. I wound up being matched up with a woman and her husband who did things with me, brought me places, experienced things with me, taught me morals, and how to protect nature. Everything that I could have done as a Cub/Boy Scout. I will always be eternally grateful for them and everything they did for me. I know that I wouldn't be the person I am today without them in my life. But I was lucky. My sister was also paired up with someone from the program, and had no where near the experience and nurturing as I did. We were a rare success story. I remember being featured in a paper, and receiving special awards. Our connection was strong, and our being part of their program far succeeded the program's expectations in terms of our success in being a great partnership, and the length of time we were together. I was REALLY lucky, I still tell them to this day how much I appreciate what they've done for me. My son is now in Cub Scouts, and I'm going to be taking over as Cubmaster next month when our current Cubmaster's sons cross over. I have a strong urge to offer these kids the same experiences I had, to actually help them become better adults. Coming into it, one of our Cubmasters had mentioned a sibling, a girl, who loves Cub Scouts. She did Girl Scouts, and hated it. It's not for her. I now have another with the same sentiments. We allow siblings to participate in all pack activities, but it's hard for me to watch. I see it as a slap in the face to the girls. They can do all of the same things, but are not recognized for their achievements. I love what those California girls are doing. There is no justice in following unjust laws. There is no reason why girls should not be able to participate formally. They can do most other things together. As a girl growing up if I wanted to play town football, I could have. If I wanted to play baseball instead of softball, I could have, and did. Why can I participate in running the program, but these girls are not allowed to join formally? Our pack has a couple of male den leaders, but it is run by women, we're the ones that make things happen. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emily-henry/confessions-of-a-girl-boy_b_1944421.html ​ Many other countries have allowed enrollment for girls in scouts. They have been successful. They have been successful in providing experiences for all genders. They have been successful in seeing an increasing amount of registrations, vs. what the BSA is currently experiencing. I see band-aids like the Lion program, which I don't hate, but it will not fix the enrollment problem like they hope it will. Letting girls join will. Even if it's a separate den, they should be included in our pack like they wish they could. It's upsetting, I feel awful that I have my hands tied. Especially because I know what it feels like to want to do these types of activities with no outlet. I had 0 self confidence as a child and teen, and I think a large part of that is because I was always told that I shouldn't do something, or dress a certain way because I'm a girl, but I wanted to do it anyways. I have a parent ready to quit the pack over it, her daughter would love to be part of the pack, and it's hard for her Tiger to understand the reasoning behind why she can't. It is becoming a negative experience for their family. I really hope to see things change, soon.