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my kid does a lot of stuff. scouts, soccer, baseball, band, church. we refer to Scouts as our Alamo. if we need to cut back for $$$ or time, Scouts will be the last activity to go. why? the only one were you are allowed to try, to challenge, and to possibly fail, and then go again. no loss of playing time, no drop in the lineup, no cuts, no one giving you crap for striking out or missing the goal. and the right balance of organized and disorganized--structure when the even calls but plenty of room for boys to be boys and just play/have fun. I have never seen my son smile/laugh on the sports field/band concert like he does kayaking, rafting, climbing, camping, on the range, etc generally, the character quality of boys he is associating with I have found to be higher than with his teams. YMMV of course depending on troop and team, but I think committed special kids do scouts, any jerk can excel at sports and we have known plenty. and generally encouraging parents, no yapping at umps or complaints about playing time. I volunteer to facilitate the above. sorry, no bumper sticker for part 1

My son is on the chapter team. this was the second weekend of multiple ceremonies. Last week had the morning/evening split. This weekend was back to back sat evening then another sun afternoon. The chapter has multiple team members so we can accommodate several ceremonies even if the timing is tight or the geography is hard. But I share your frustration with units who don't have a great sense of time. Our bigger issue is getting units to coord well in advance so we can support all. so many packs and basically all wanting to go around the same time. need advance planning to reduce/eliminate schedule conflicts and make sure the boys get the ceremony they deserve.

"It's gold Jerry, comedy gold!"

well, I think many will say boys like to be with their friends and that improves the likelihood of retention. I would have to agree. Your son can always wear the full uniform. model the standard you want, don't lower your to match. go to summer camp, try to emphasize it yourself. again model the pgm you want--organize the SFF or service project, maybe it doesnt happen because no one cares enough to step up. I can not believe anyone would actively oppose one organizing and leading such efforts. Your son can earn Eagle on his own pace. No need to worry about the others. No solution for the nepotism. just gonna have to overcome. I guess what I am saying is w/o being there and truly understanding the specifics of the dynamics of the troop in question, the majority of your issues could possibly be overcome, dealt with, worked around. Or at least the option exists. However, you could sit down with your son. Explain your concerns about his troop choice, what you feel scouting should be. see what he says, what matters to him. I am sure you have done this. In the end it is his ride and even at 10/11 they will start to pick their path. I think a lot of what you bring up I agree with, but the boys are oblivious to and they will focus on their friends and having fun, which is more likely with their friends. anyway good luck. just an opinion.

I would think a simple would you perform it in front of your Mom would work 95% of the time. the other 5%, well....

"What happened? First event (a Webelos crossover) some mom of one of the kids in the pack (we learned later she was from SF and a graduate of either Berkeley or Stanford) complained to the CM and SM how offended she was (as a white person) that the Scouts would "so grotesquely flaunt and denigrate Native Americans" by dressing up and performing as such." And hopefully, no one gave her an outsized voice and changed one thing which is what seems to happen. People cower from those squeaky wheels instead of standing up for what they think and that emboldens further "protest" as it is seen as successful. One should just say thanks for your opinion, we will consider it, maybe even have a discussion at an appropriate time and move on. If she gets a majority of the troop to agree then so be it. If not she either accepts or moves on to a troop which fits her sensibilities. Too often, imo, what hhappens is immediate unconditional surrender in the face of the first loud complaint.

"I was checking out their site and noticed that you don't need to sew on rank patches - they will hang from the temporary badge button under the pocket. I think that's a great idea!" Let me offer a suggestion gained from years of switching unit patches on my flight suit: velcro. On my son's uni we use it for rank, position, patrol. makes swapping easy. I use it on mine for position. A friend who has switched units a lot (military moves) has it for every single patch on his shirt. anyway, I know that wasn't the focus of the thread but compelled to comment

Thanks. great feedback. Like I said, we are not turning anyone away nor will we. just a general concern for the other troops--we all have friends and good relations with all of them and in the end I don;t think anyone wants to become a one troop town. We run a good program and know it--and more importantly the scouts and the community do as well. we know that is what is selling. we are patrol method, boy led. we are planning on three xover patrols with dedicated TG and Instructors for each. we plan on taking those patrols and their TG/Instructors aside so during the first half of the meeting they work on Scout to First Class Skills while the remaining older boys work on advanced skills. then we join back up for a group activity/announcements/closing. we didn't do as well last year with 16 xovers and the change in the scout rank requirements. we are hopeful we have learned from that and have applied those lessons to substantially improve.

Hello, Interested in hearing some opinions. In our town of around 50K (a bedroom community for a larger metro area) we have 4 troops (although one is chartered thru the catholic school/church and their membership is generally parishoners/students so their members generally didn't consider other troops and non parishoners/students dont join), 1 LDS troop. there is also a troop at the nearby base and one each at two much smaller but adjacent communities. So lots of great options for boys. All troops are healthy, no issues, good leaders/boys. I would recommend any of them to anyone. So far we are on track for 23 crossovers (our current troop size is 46, while I don't have exact count the other 3 troops in town are smaller but i think in the 20-30 range--I am separating out the "Catholic" troop, for the stated background their numbers are pretty stable and constant). We may get even more. The last few years we have been getting 15 or so. Our troop is growing, the others are holding or shrinking, their crossover numbers have been on a downward trend. Why am I writing. Our committee (of which I am a member) has a genuine concern for the other troops in our area. we recognize scouting in general is better/stronger when all the troops are healthy. We "recruit," which is to say we reach out to local packs and invite them to visit. when they visit we show them our program, their boys meet our boys, parents meet our parents/ASMs/committee members/SM. we supply den chiefs, we invite packs to a couple different events during the year. While we certainly do not shy away from touting what our troop has to offer and why we like it we do not do it in a comparative fashion (i.e. we are the best at something, or the only one to do something). we do not say anything bad about the other troops, in fact, we encourage all to visit as many troops as possible. We always close by asking if they do not pick us please join somewhere, please join scouting. I know all is the uniform message potential families receive from all adults they come in contact with I know the other troops do more or less the same. Our issue/thought is we truly do not want to drive the other troops out of business and over time if these trends continue we are fearful that will happen. There is really no easy to direct a boy away from one troop to another. I don't think setting an arbitrary limit on crossovers is right (first come first serve?). Nor would we ever want to turn any boy away--no guarantee they join anywhere. That always disappointed me tremendously about GS, they were not shy about saying our unit is full, can't take any more, please go on our waiting list for an open unit. Sometimes that is a physical limit (my wife would take as many girls as she and her co leader could manage. when they ran out of adult leaders they ran out of slots--a span of control issue) but most time it was a clique deal where a circle of friends forms a unit and they don't want outsiders. but i digress we are also concerned about maintaining our program and providing a great experience to all of those new boys. It will be a tremendous challenge (which we are ready for!) for our boys (and adults) to train these boys and get them moving (at their own pace) on the advancement (or just plain adventure/fun) trail. Anyway, would love for those who are interested to share their thoughts on a) managing the large new class and really big troop b) preserving the health of our neighboring troops and ensuring they are getting a healthy influx of new members. c) anything else out of this scenario I have forgotten or not been wise enough to ask about

that is what we do. we usually get double digit web xovers. the boys found it easier to get them trained up if they were in patrols of all newbies. the older scouts can focus on them and their training. we really focus on getting them thru the BoR for Scout and started towards TFoot before summer camp. then we integrate them into the mixed patrols.

and DJT went to a military themed high school, not a military school. USMA, USNA, USAFA, USCGA, USMMA are military schools. I would even grant VMI, Citadel, Norwich. Current or former commissioned military officers on staff and who develop and execute/supervise the educational and training curriculum. As an Academy graduate I hardly consider DJT's experience remotely comparable.

or "this is how we always have done it"

BORs are scheduled for the last meeting of the month (except for CoH (quarterly) month--we bump it up a week to allow completion before the CoH). Boys sign up on our website calendar, by the Friday prior (we meet on Mondays). The Adv Chair always has Committee members ready to go. We have found setting a stable schedule has smoothed the process for the boys and given them targets. It also ensures we have the people set up to do the BoR. Yes, if you get your requirements done early in the month you have to wait a few weeks but we were having problems putting together BoRs on the fly as boys got stuff done. It also stabilized the SM conference process/scheduling. We have a fairly big troop and the SM wants to talk to each boy and not delegate (not a power trip thing, he just wants to get to know the boys better and truly enjoys the time with them and it standardizes the SM conferences a bit because we had a lot of ASMs doing it before)

yeah those of us on the IL side of the river are watching nervously. Rumor is folks in the local scout office have already been told they will no longer be needed. Another is the closings will be on our side as well--driven by the upgrade requirements for which their is no money. Hopefully the OA lodge holds , but apparently a big council in the DFW area wanted to do that and was denied by Natl so we may get thumped to keep the peace. The big scuttlebut is this wont be a merger of equals--GSLAC will be the 800 lb gorilla and act accordingly (they have been that way previously)--and that things L&C used to do and events they would hold will happen no longer and we will have to go across the river into StL to participate. Certainly planning on my kid getting his Eagle project done before all of the meetings/boards/approvals have to go over there. of course all of the above is rumor and hearsay so it may turn out wonderfully.

Our troop follows if it is on the troop calendar, then it is a troop activity. from that we count everything but Troop meetings towards the requirements. Some council events make the calendar, but not all--just the ones we traditionally send a good sized contingent (usually travel as a troop, even U of Scouting and the like)

SInce Scout is now a rank, with more and more structured requirements I think earning a MB before Scout will become the norm. It could just be easier. Our troop just had a campout on the lake where the boys earned the mototboating MB. Several hadn't earned Scout yet. now we don't have too many (if any) asking for blue cards on their own--they are earning as part of a specific activity. when my son became a scout a couple of years ago he went to a MB day hald by the council the weekend after blue/gold xover so he earned a badge before scout and this was before it was a BoR rank. I think it could be a good opportunity if it is pursuing an interest (not trying to get a jump on the ERs like CitC/N/W) letting a new boy earn something, be a part of the next CoH--especially if the trail to Scout rank has slowed. But I do agree with several others that ideally Scout is earned expeditiously and then they start working the parts of the advancement trail.

we meet all year--every week. obviously mtg participation dips over the summer but we just keep rolling. and since we generally have a campout every month (except for the month summer camp occurs) we are getting ready to have our SPL election. We will then have leadership and PL elections. Then we will have the PLC. We let the fall staff run the PLC. The spring staff gets summer camp.

tedious, not hard. I would agree with that assessment. and agree we are getting the boys on outings (be it camping/canoeing or other cool adventures) which keeps it fun. haven't seen that impact for the cooking. while some are doing it for the badge, most are doing it so they eat! we also do a few pure cooking campouts at our COs local property so we can have a "local" campout when there isn't a bigger activity planned. That allows for a lot of instruction and getting different boys opportunities to do a lot of cooking. and drop in adults a lot of eating

We are finding it slow going with Scout now being a rank. We are boy led, not a mill but the last few years we were able to get our incoming (motivated) crossovers (usually around 12) generally through TF fairly soon after crossover (or before summer camp) and then they left camp well on way to second/first class. This year we have maybe 2 done. And word from the other Troops in our community is the same, few if any have completed Scout. Understand it isn't a race, plenty of time to advance, boy led they go at their own pace. But I have also seen a correlation between advancement and retention at the early stages. Curious to the boards thoughts/observations. I personally think adding the cyberchip was a mistake. Maybe a cyber awareness or a pledge, but the Chip itself is not an insignificant requirement and it is holding boys up. I liked the old way where a new scout can get that first rank pretty quickly, basically taking the AoL reqs and earning the Scout. Then he can get rolling/immersed and start doing BoRs and such. We will get the boys moving and "caught up" (if you will) but just interesting to see the common pace among several local troops,

one of our parents runs a silk screen/t shirt business. we did 5 cotton shirts for a week of camp (5 different colors, one for each day) with simple troop logo on front. $25 for 5 cotton, 50 if you wanted the wicking material.

something to consider is appearance of favoritism. while not a perfect parallel when I was in command I didn't friend any of the folks in my unit unless I could friend them all--because i didn't want to create the appearance of playing favorites when it came to assignments, deployments, discipline, whatever. Again, it is different in a Scout unit but what if one of the boys an ASM or SM friends gets a coveted position and the one who doesnt and isnt a friend points that out--or a non friend is disciplined. probably extreme examples. I think beaver makes some good points about engagement but when i think about potential appearance problems and the society we find ourselves in today I would lean towards not friending. And I know this is greybeard, get off my lawn stuff but kids are spending way too much time in front of screens (i know mine do) so I dont want to encourage it (as futile as that quest may be)

I will offer a counter. Our Troop has 4 CoH a year (once a quarter) Each one was expected to be different, and more elaborate, than the previous--which also mostly meant the parents of the assigned MC team was on the hook for way too much planning and execution. The boys were running out of ideas and locations and the parents were dreading when it was their boys turn. Plus, our troop has generally tied it to the Comm badge (the MC's are doing the planning etc) and were spending more time on party planning (or getting park/community rec center permits) than actually communicating or working on public speaking. I mean, the CoH is important but it isn't a royal wedding. Me and another parent, working with the SPL, got the troop to dial it down a notch and go back to making it about the boys and their advancements. make the whole thing a little more "off the shelf" with a continuity binder so each successive team could already have a script which they could tweak as opposed to reinventing an ever more elaborate wheel (which in reality, is how the real world deals with repeating ceremonies). Now, the boys can and do plan/run the whole show w/ little adult help. Yes, each CoH is now very similar to the one before it but they happen w/in a reasonable time, the boys have fun and definetly learn about planning/executing an event and speaking before a group. so IMO sounds like your boys are in a good place even if it is a little boring for the adults

must be nice. here fees for HS/JrHS extracurriculars.

we ask $100 a year at registration time. xover scouts get prorated for what they paid to their Cub pack. we pay as you go for different events. there is some subsidizing summer camp but I don't know the methodology or amounts--pretty much pay your own way there as well. fundraising (outside of the popcorn system) a few times a year, troop gets a cut then we have some sort of system which allocates remainder to the scout that did the selling that somehow isn't the illegal scout account. the boys can use that $$$ to pay for events.

I am an ASM chartered as a committe member. I have not done the O of IOL. As someone mentioned the cost in time is steep. I have three kids. It is hard enough to devote a weekend to just the boy (forsaking whatever my daughters have on the calendar) when I go on a troop outing. I am for sure not going to go on a wholly seperte outing w/o any of them. That is if the one or two times the council holds the training doesnt fall on a big weekend of events (our council seems to always schedule on prom/homecoming/graduation or other highly scheduled weekends). What is truly aggravating is we have several council certified IOLS instructors who could teach the course to those in the troop who need it in conjunction with a troop campout so I could do it while out with my son, but no, the council wont go along with that. so no, I dont see IOLS in my future. I would be happy to do it and I reckon I would learn some useful stuff, but the council (or BSA) has to recognize I am a volunteer, and Scouting--especially as an adult, is not the center of my world and it is going to have to conviently fit into a pretty packed schedule