Protoclete

I just have to share an inspiring Scouting encounter. I am in Singapore this week with young adult scouters from four countries: Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and Indonesia, with staff from WOSM and KAICIID, and the support of the Temasek Foundation (Singapore). Some of these young people are national commissioners, national program directors, national dialogue for peace coordinators for their entire NSO. All range from 18-35. They are so dedicated, enthusiastic, and open to learning and promoting new peacebuilding and dialogue initiatives. All speak English, but some are stronger than others, so I watch as they will translate for each other across national lines, to include everyone. The Thai team spends two hours every night after a long program to debrief everyone in Thai to make sure everyone is up to speed. The Scouting commitment to hands-on learning is so refreshing - I'm reminded what is great about Scouting world wide.

"Just curious, what does NSO stand for? I looked online and found the following:" Yes, NSO is National Scout Organization. That is the terminology used by the World Organization of the Scout Movement to identify national body (equivalent to BSA in the US). There is only one NSO per country. These are the official members of the World Scouting movement. If a country has more than one National Scouting Association, they can form a federation or umbrella group to act as NSO. [This is the case in Italy, for example, which has the Italian Scout Federation acting as NSO, which is comprised of two NSAs, AGESCI (Italian Catholic Guide and Scout Association) and CNGEI (National Boy and Girl Scout Corps, which is nonsectarian), and a couple of smaller organizations for German-speakers and Slovenians within Italian territory.] In the US, the BSA is the only recognized NSO. (The Girl Scouts of America belong to the World Association of Girl Guides and Scouts, rather than the World Organization of the Scouting Movement).

The BSA Far East Council runs what they call a "trilogy camp" - a rotating high adventure camp that occurs in a different part of the Council every year. This year happens to be Nepal. (The other two countries in the cycle are Mongolia and Thailand). https://scoutingevent.com/803-Nepal2023 You could either jump in on that or at talk with the team that plans it to get some ideas.

There's a good question there, one I'm trying to track down. What is the BSA procedure for adopting a WOSM program and is it different than allowing any Scout who has earned a WOSM badge to wear it on their uniform even if not a BSA adopted program? Like, who decided that we promote Messengers of Peace in the BSA but not Patrimonito? I don't know. Working on finding out. But, as far as i can tell, BSA scouts and scouters could wear any WOSM badge they earn in the temporary insignia area (or on a jacket, etc) unless otherwise indicated (like the MoP ring around the world crest), even if the program is not promoted by BSA in a specific way.

Yes, i was referring to the Catholic episcopal conferences. The Episcopal Church is something else altogether, and part of the Anglican Communion. Some bishops want to act as if they only answer to the pope, (and even then they don't like it) but that simply isn't Catholic ecclesiology.

No, as pointed out by the reference to the chances to the code of canon law, there are in fact decisions that can be made by the episcopal conference that are binding on all members. But of course, it is the bishops themselves who pass those laws, so if they don't want to agree to something they won't. But the charter for the protection of minors is one example. The USCCB could have decided to make a national decision, but instead opted to leave it up to the individual dioceses. (Which is their most common decision). Bishops are part of both a province and a national episcopal conference, as well as a particular ritual church, before they are part of the universal church, and answerable to each of those levels in different ways.

I recently started a term as a global consultant for WOSM, working with their "Better World Framework" programs. Given the popularity of Messengers of Peace with BSA scouts and scouters, I'm always surprised some of the other programs have not caught on as much. I'm particularly invested in Dialogue for Peace and the Interreligious Dialogue badge, but thought this might be a good place to draw attention to the others, too: Has anyone had experience with any of these? Mind sharing? Or maybe contacts through another country's scouting program that's done some of them? I'm curious to hear stories, or questions, from BSA scouters if they have any knowledge of or experience with any of them.

I'd just echo what a couple have said. Once they earn one award, they have earned that award and can keep wearing it even if they convert to a new denomination or religion. They can then earn the award(s) offered by the new religious org and have two or more religious emblems. Also, some of the emblems are open to be earned by scouts of any faith, while others require you be an initiated and/or practicing member when you earn it - but nobody "revokes" an emblem if the person leaves that faith. And it sounds like this scout would be in a prime position to consider the interreligious dialogue badge or dialogue for peace program, too.

And the Heart of Virginia Council.

Also found a pdf of the Piedmont-Appalachian College of Commissioner Science. Palmetto list of theses.pdf

In fact, if anyone has a council (or other) list of theses/projects could you add it here? These are the ones I have found: Atlanta Area Council Chicksaw Council Dan Beard Council Mid America Council Middle Tennessee Council NorCal College of Commissioner Science

I think its a good way to provide structure for ongoing raining and development for commissioners. But I've been in very different councils. One dropped the whole "college" and degrees language, as they found it a little too pretentious. Another only held one every couple years. The pandemic has done some good, at least, in encouraging more online colleges. Makes it easier to get some needed classes in. As for the 'doctorate', there is a wide variety of quality I have seen. Some are basically like woodbadge tickets. Others are serious research papers that would be worthy of a university term paper or a published journal article. My approach has been that I identified a pet project that required research, advocacy, and action. One that I'd want to champion anyway, and found a way to make it fit into the model for a college of commissioner science thesis/project. That's helped focus a little. And it's a good way to review the last few years of commissioner service and scouting activity and see what I've contributed. I am surprised there is no national database of theses. And only about a half dozen councils I have found seem to have lists online. It would be nice to have once central location so nobody reinvents the wheel, and can rely on the other work already out there, otherwise, why go to all the effort? As a real-life college professor, I have found some commissioner thesis that would be on par with a university term paper or capstone project, and others that are little more than collections of already existing resources and a short reflective essay on how this could work in the author's unit, district, or council. Certainly, nobody should be going around adding "PhD" to their name because they finish this. You get a nice little knot instead.

I was thinking of something like these, worn on the chest, like the training wards.

Just coming off our Council annual meeting and awards dinner, I am renewed in my only uniform pet peeve in Scouting. Too many adult medals around the neck. Certainly, most of us don't wear most of them most of the time anyway, and that is the nice thing about the square knots (when there is one), and even in formal settings choosing just one makes sense. But we have three minimedals that stand out as unusual (and, i think, exemplary) in this regard - the Scouter's Key, Scouter Training Award, and Den Leader Training Award. It always struck me as strange that there were only these three, and nearly everything else is a neck medal (or a plaque/certificate). Silver Critters, Venturing/Sea Scouting Leadership, Adult religious awards, NESA/Alumni awards, etc. Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it be nice of all adult awards were just minimedals, so could be worn in combination? The miniature size keeps the emphasis on youth only having full size medals, and also helps diminish clutter around the neck? These days, it's at the bottom of the list of things to concern about, and probably just me anyway, but had to have my mini-venting session. Thanks!

Are there any Councils out there that do not have Districts, or in which Districts are not organized geographically? Someone raised the question recently in a Roundtable and I was stumped. Figured I'd throw it out there and see if anyone knows if there are, and, if so, how they operate.

As of Feb 15, there are still several places open for this course, if you know anyone who needs or wants to join.

The Denver Area Council is hosting a virtual Sea Badge training over two weekends in April. This is the adult leader training parallel to Wood Badge for Sea Scouters, but is also open to any Scouters, and while similar in some respects to Woodbadge, is different enough that it would still be interesting. Registration is open to Scouters from any Council, and is only about 1/3 full at this time. I did this through Transatlantic Council in 2020, and while not a Sea Scouter, found it helpful and informative, and will be on the staff of this one, so thought it might be of interest here. https://denverboyscouts.doubleknot.com/event/sea-badge-virtual-2022/2874646

Ah, that's unfortunate.

Sounds like your unit needs a chaplain, chaplain aide, and/or religious emblems coordinator! There's one for basically everyone (even people not belonging to a formal religion). What we have usually done is this: The emblem (medal) is presented by the religious organization - some do a big annual presentation to all the Scouts of that faith that have earned them in the region, others just have it presented at worship or an appropriate religious gathering. The knot is presented at the Court of Honor or similar event. In some places, it is easier if they are presented at the pack meeting both together, and then some recognition is made at their church or religious institution. As someone else posted, the Methodist emblems are available through PRAY, and will have to be paid for - you can check with the local Methodist committee on Scouting and see what they recommend, though I imagine it will be the same way the unit pays for other award badges, whatever that is for you.

A couple of posts - @CynicalScouter, @mrjohns2 - referenced no change to board structure/governance. There is, however, a big push to change the composition of the National Board, first by shrinking it to 40 (from 72 I think), to include fully 1/2 of its membership from local councils, who will represent not only geographic diversity via the NSTs but also diversity of size, enabling some membership from councils that would never have had a voice before, my own included. I am not sure the status of that at the moment, but it sounded like several dozen councils were on board with that.

Hi, TGB. I'm very sorry to hear this, and a bit confused. I am a long-time Catholic scouter, chaplain, and theologian, and I'm not aware of any new rules that are particularly discriminatory or that would have prompted this. I wonder if there is a new pastor or COR who is taking things to an extreme that is not necessary. Scouting has been viewed as Catholic Youth Ministry since 1912. That's not new. Not every parish does this well, but the ideal is that the COR is the youth minister or other parish staff person responsible for youth ministry and/or family religious programs, or someone designated by them. A unit chartered at a parish is an extension of that parish's ministry - but that has never meant, nor does it mean now, that you must be Catholic to be a registered Scouter in the unit. Some parishes might require that the Scoutmaster or committee chair be a member of the parish but it is unusual in the extreme to not allow someone to volunteer just because they are not Catholic or not a member of the parish. In fact, it is contrary to the Church's own views on ecumenism and interfaith dialogue. What is the part that is discriminatory and what the new rules you are being told prompted this? Were you told that because you are not Catholic you cannot be a leader, or something else? As others have pointed out, the chartering org, in this case the parish, does have a lot of leeway in its own expectations of leaders in its own scout programs, so it may be a new more triumphalisitic pastor. Or something changed in the leadership of the diocesan catholic committee on scouting that is making it more restrictive than it ought to be. Bottom line, there's nothing from the NCCS that says that only Catholics can be leaders in Catholic scout troops, and every one I've been in has active and welcome non-Catholics. There may be a requirement for everyone to complete the diocesan safeguarding training for volunteers in YPT, but as a volunteer in a parish program, even if not a member of the parish or for the Catholic Church, it is still the responsibility of the parish to provide that training for you - no differently than for the members of the parish doing so.

At the risk of getting off the thread topic, while the particular statement of religious principle varies by each NSO, the "Duty to God" element is a core principle at the global level. (https://www.scout.org/node/614310) Admittedly, WOSM and many of the European orgs use the language of "the relationship to the spiritual life and spiritual reality" as a way to explain "Duty to God" in the oath, to avoid misunderstanding it as having a preference for Abrahamic monotheism. And while traditional religious identities still have priority as the default understanding of what that means, "Spirituality is also used in reference to the human spirit, to the emergence of the true self. It may be expressed in religious, agnostic, and atheist forms." That isn't much different than how the BSA understands it, really. There's no requirement to belong to a religion (all of which are "organized"). Most U.S. atheists seem to define atheism as "no position on religious questions but open to spirituality" which is more traditionally "agnosticism" - and that isn't as problematic to the Scouting value of reverence/duty to God as is atheism as "rejection of all religions, people who believe in religions are stupid, and there should be none of that spirituality nonsense in public/Scouts/whatever, don't talk about religions in scouting please" - not a lot of room for reverence / respect for others' beliefs in that.

Exactly.

I just read through this thread. While the discussion on changes of belonging by generational cohort were interesting and relevant, I think this hits on some more relevant issues. Granted, the reason so many of the younger GenX and Millennials are less likely to have a sense of loyalty to institutions or organizations, from employers to churches to scouting is precisely because of the abuse and unreliability of many of these institutions towards them over the decades. But back to Eagle1993s points, this really is a time of crisis, which means a good time to reassess, reorganize, and eliminate the unnecessary impediments. We should be 100% committed to making it easy for people to join, for volunteers to commit, and that means, off the bat, registration has to be simple. Renewal has to be simple. Accessing data has to be simple. Changing positions and transferring to new councils/units when you move has to be simple. Your 'story' has to be simple to go with you. And it has to work. Too much paperwork, too many overlapping reports, poor use of data. Few people have the patience to sort through all this, and we should not ask them to. Just last night I heard again from a dedicated volunteer, a Cubmaster, who simply cannot find a way to make it work. He's got one kid in cubs, a girl. His pack is a family pack. But the requirement to have a separate den for the girls from the boys, with the requirements around leaders, makes it almost impossible to continue. The girls are all going to drop out, because of an artificial barrier to participation. The national reorganization, eliminating layers of bureaucracy and improving direct relationship from local to national and vice versa is all good, a step in the right direction, but i wonder how much more we can apply the ideal that less is more. What else do we need to pare down to the essentials? ...That being said, i don't see the declaration of religion principle being in this set. Yes, if there's any serious consideration of it changing, do it now and get it done with, but you cannot eliminate something that is at the core of the entire Scouting movement. No more could you eliminate community service, or camping, or the idea of being prepared. Otherwise I agree with the general sentiment - take advantage of this time of change and make a wholesale reform, with intention.

I can put you in touch with the BSA Council that serves American Scouts in Georgia, and some who are there or near there, as well as some who have put on camps in Croatia, Switzerland, Italy, and Kenya. Or if you have contact information of the people / group who own or are planning the camp, I can send that to some of the volunteers who might be able to help or share ideas.