imachristian13

@@JoeBob - I'm actually well past the hurt in this. I will ask you what I asked @@HICO_Eagle. What would you do differently in the "approach"?

@@HICO_Eagle - While I do thank you for your comment and sharing your message on your scenarios with your Autistic Scouts, I do want to comment on an aspect of your commentary that is far off the mark. Tell me how you would have done this differently. Our Son was invited to visit the Troop by his own friend who was involved and whose father is a family friend as well as an ASM and a Commissioner. After the initial visit and before committing to joining, we sat down (my wife and I) with the Committee, SM and most of the ASM team (including the two ASMs we've been discussing all along). At this meeting, they asked us how we could make this happen. We didn't "insist" on anything. We worked with these folks to develop a plan that was to their liking. That plan included our being onsite at all times unless they allowed us to do otherwise - usually on camping trips when we could not attend due to work or on local trips where we would be within a phone call's reach so that he could have some autonomous time. Again, items that they instituted. Meanwhile, I have been finishing my training as an ASM - something that has been rewarding but challenging since I did not excel at Boy Scouts during my own youth. There was never an "obligation" to accommodate our son or the two of us. No request to the Troop for a change in action or a shift in activities - heck, we didn't even seek a change in physical fitness areas until they suggested it to us. The only obligation should have been that they live up to their own commitment to the plan that they set into motion. On the issue of whether or not the ASMs should have gone to another SM, there is a huge difference between sharing concerns in the manner you described and how these folks behaved. We would have had no issue with them sharing those types of things whatsoever, especially since we bring those types of things to the table ourselves when we meet folks who may be supervising our son in our absence. So...what would you have done differently and why shouldn't we have expected them to live up to the plans that they agreed to?

Your point is well taken with one critical exception. Saying that "this is more than I can handle" would have been fantastic! Even though they had agreed to take on our son, they always had the out - it was written in the Committee minutes that way at MY insistence so that everyone was clear. All they had to do was say "can't do it anymore...now what?" Instead, they took all of the negative steps that have been discussed all along. We are moving ahead. They have chosen to continue to be inappropriate in their actions BUT that's OK...we are all about moving ahead.

It actually only became grounds for the 2 ASMs to raise a negative tone toward our family - not expulsion from the District. SM is worn out - can't serve the other boys if he has no ASMs anymore. That's what would happen if he spoke up we believe.

What little we know? What don't you know? The expectations of his autonomy were actually too low.

To reiterate - we did not demand this obligation - we asked for their commitment and they agreed that they were willing to make the effort. And, as an aside, enough with the quotes on our training them, OK? When you are fully trained in how to do something, describing it as such is fully proper.

Hi - thanks for commenting. I won't tell you that you don't understand. I will tell you that you didn't pay attention to something I've been saying all along. The beginning of our relationship with this troop was a sit-down meeting between the SM, the ASMs (including the 2 involved in our concern), and the majority of the entire Committee. At this meeting, we - in essence - asked permission for our son to join the troop. We explained what they would be dealing with from his point of view as well as our intended level of involvement. Had they not agreed to take on our son, we would not be in this place now. We have NEVER demanded anyone adjust to him - we have asked for their willingness to do so with our help. To put it into your words, we "adjusted and made the first concessions."

While I do recognize that you are playing Devil's Advocate, I think you are missing one important thing. Our son had BOTH parents onsite for every meeting. We had been as interactive in the meetings as we were permitted to be by the other ASMs and SM - always stepping in when our son went outside of the parameters that the boy leaders could handle (or the ASMs for that matter). The only time that there has been any concern is on local service outings or local campouts - both of which were approved by the SM and ASMs for us to step out so he could have a bit more normal of an experience. We spent weeks setting him up (social stories, planning, working with his fellow scouts and leaders) on a whitewater rafting trip. We did this because neither of us could (physically) participate. When they got to the event site, the ASMs (the ones we've been discussing) moved him to a different group of scouts and put him in a different role on the 4-person team. As a result, he was 100% trapped and could not have been removed in the method we normally would have attempted. Water trips will be handled differently by us - likely the he will participate in an entirely different fashion. Removing him doesn't have to be anything farther away than out of reach from other troop members or leaders. Yes, at least one person has to re-direct. If this is an issue, then the communication should be ahead of time because his needs don't change. It's no different than bringing an Epipen or Insulin. If I can count on the ASMs to properly medicate my son (if he needed meds that is), I should be able to count on them to follow an agreed-upon plan. The other option is to say "for this trip, we need one of you to attend or he will not be able to attend" - exactly what we asked them to do from Day One. Returning to the scenario does not come back to another meltdown in our case. Resolution is ALWAYS reached. It just needs to be requested when he is able to process it. One aspect of Scouting that should be like school? Proper organization. There's no excuse for coming in to a meeting (boy-led or not) that doesn't have some semblance of a plan. Standing around and waiting for someone to do something is hard on the boys - Asperger's or not. Do you really believe that following the guidelines that they agreed to at the start amounts to babysitting? We have parents who drop and run their boys - we don't even see them for Courts of Honor. In this case, they have a fully-active family here to assist in making the scouting experience top notch for ALL of the boys. Yet they chose to ignore that opportunity.

What makes kids who don't play video games and/or who obey their parents earn the label of "Stepford Children"? Is it that much of a stretch that this happens?

Quite the contrary. The now-former troop members were very strong in how they interacted with our son. When that wasn't working, the SM and ASMs (even those two) encouraged the SPL, PL, etc. to seek us out as well as other opportunities to learn about how to make everything work. The issues we had came, primarily, when the scenario grew past the abilities of the available members; thus, requiring adult involvement. I have to ask something to all of you here. The basis for how to interact with our son when he is in crisis is not complex. As an adult, unless you are having a bad day yourself of course, why is this being seen as difficult? Safely remove him from the scene. Allow him to calm down on his own. Never, ever attempt to resolve anything (good or bad) at that time.

Well, Dr. Qwazse, here's my thoughts... Our son has been in on the discussion from before we switched from Royal Rangers to BSA. We were "wrong" because we trusted the adult leaders to communicate properly with us. We were wrong because we believed that the adult leaders would keep their own commitment to assisting us in making our son's experience positive. We were wrong, lastly, for not recognizing that - despite our being right there in front of them at (almost) all times - these folks were displeased with how things were happening. There are no issues with the boys of the troop - meaning that they are not mean to him at all. Sometimes boys like each other and sometimes boys don't - we aren't seeking utopia here either. We were specifically not looking to be helicopter parents here either - as you already know. We wanted Boy-Led. The only catch with Boy-Led and our son is that occasionally he needs adult interaction to resolve issues that he cannot resolve on his own. Issues that the boy leaders are not equipped to handle. When he gets hung up, fixated, or is unable to keep up on a task without some added instruction. THIS is where the adults failed him. THIS is, also, where we failed him by not catching up with the adults belief that he just needed to get his butt kicked once in awhile and he'd be fine (one of the adults is what we might call an Autism Denier to be honest). We are looking for a troop that accepts him in a similar or better fashion than the prior troop AND where the adults can take the ball where necessary with our direct help.

@@DuctTape - I certainly understand the Devil's Advocate angle. The problem is that I am usually the one playing that role in our community. Before posting these threads in the first place, I have already played all of the visible sides out in order to present a fair (and as unbiased as possible) view. The response from the district and from the SM - coupled with the reactions we have received from other SMs when we request a visit (usually "Oh...you are coming from THAT troop?") - I think I'm on solid ground. We are moving on either way.

Hey folks! Your sense of humor and solid advice - each and every one of you - really helped me get through these past few days. I really appreciate the willingness to help.

Humor me on something? Would you go through it and point me to the 11 points you see? I'm so jaded to it, I'd love to see what you see. If it's not a lot of stress. Thanks.

A couple of thoughts. First, I'm not sure if there is anything else lying underneath. Second, the reason I don't know is because these folks didn't tell us any of this until last night. Third, we didn't come in the door and say "we are here, we will train you." We were invited in by another scout and his family. We sat down with leadership to determine that they were interested in trying this out. We told them that our goal was to share all we knew to help them succeed for all of the boys' sake. Like you, I despise those who expect "special treatment" for our type of kids. We are only entitled to equal and fair treatment. This being said, if a scouting candidate came in without an arm or a leg, would we be having any of these discussions? Just because ours is an invisible matter, doesn't mean it's any less difficult.