KarenMcV

Well, I joined this site so that I could learn more about scouting in an attempt to be more of an asset to our boys, our den and our pack. I came forward with a simple question to help clarify den dues and to hear what others were doing in terms of their dens. However, I was quickly attacked and labeled a complainer, a problem parent, an absentee and uninformed parent and a complaining private school parent, so please forgive me if I was defensive in light of the immediate attacks over a simple question. I also do not agree that I was applauding only those responses that agreed with me or that my question had anything to do with my sons being in Catholic school. On a side note, our school has a fabulous Parents Club that does amazing things for our school and our teachers. Our school and our athletic programs are not in any financial need whatsoever. Our school also has wonderful supportive relationships with our neighboring public schools. What I was doing, was thanking the people who honestly tried to help me with respectful enlightening information. For the record, I have never ever been opposed to paying den dues in any way shape or form. My husband and I always go above and beyond to help both monetarily and with our time and we are happy to do so. I would never expect a Den Leader to pay for materials for our sons out of their own pockets. As far as offering to help our Den Leader, I constantly and continuously offer to help with leg-work, planning, internet research and/or prepping materials in advance. I regularly offer ideas as well as my time to help implement any ideas that the Den Leader chooses. My Husband and I are both very, very involved in den and pack activities for both of our sons. The meeting we missed where they discussed den dues was because my son was sick. I contacted our Den Leader directly and expressed that I thought that the den dues were a little high and suggested ways in which programs could be a bit more cost effective and offered ideas and my time to help with those or any other ideas. I’ve expressed directly to our Den Leader time and time again that I’m not trying to be difficult, but rather, that I’m trying to help. The thought of splitting the den was a thought to relieve some of the stress from our current Den Leader and would be our offer to help not harm. Most of the time, all of our offers and attempts to help are rebuffed because our DL has his own very specific ideas in mind (and that is not meant to be insulting, just the truth of the matter). My original question was actually if an additional $40.00 in den dues was necessary, thinking that the materials needed to complete achievements could be purchased on a lesser budget. My thoughts were never about asking if another $40.00 was worth it. Of course scouting is a very valuable program for our boys and of course it is, “worth it.†Just for clarification, our pack collects $50.00 per scout in registration fees. We have right around 60 scouts in our pack and we have 12 scouts in our den. Last year, our scouts sold over $12,000.00 in popcorn sales (corrected from one post where I stated $10,000.00) and they are on track to exceed that this year. Parents pay out-of-pocket separately for all of the outings, events, camping and our Blue and Gold banquet. Den Leaders are reimbursed by the pack for all out-of-pocket expenses provided they complete and submit the appropriate paperwork accompanied by receipts. Lastly, our Den Leader did eventually respond to my questions. He reported that he does not have a yearlong plan for our den and that $40.00 was just an arbitrary number that he threw out there. He said that he doesn’t expect to spend more than $300.00 dollars per year on materials so he is lowering the den dues to $30.00 per scout. All of the suggestions, ideas and offers to help by both my husband and I were rebuffed. Thanks for all of your concerns and comments. I will not be posting any longer as I have formally requested to be removed from this site, it's just not the resource I thought it would be. Have a WONDERFUL year in scouting and God bless!

Thank you Sidney, Actually, my husband and I are considering asking to split the den and my husband becoming a DL. Maybe that would relieve some of the pressure from our current DL. We pay separately for all events (swimming/pool time, sporting events, historical events, seasonal events, Blue and Gold and camping) above and beyond the $90.00 in fees. Honestly, I am NOT opposed to den dues and I don't think anything should come out of the Den Leader's pocket. I simply think that it can be done in a more cost effective manner and I am always willing to help. =0) Thanks again and have a GREAT day!

Sidney Porter, Thanks, but I'm not angry, bitter or burnt out. =0) Have a SUPER HAPPY day! =0)

Sentinel947, ​I agree that our DL should have gathered everyone`s opinion regarding the amount of den dues collected and I suggested to our DL that we revisit the idea as a complete den. I have found cost effective ways to work toward the achievements and I have offered to share these ideas with our DL as well. I am always happy and willing to help. Finally, I am not opposed in any way to den dues if truly necessary. As a family, we ALWAYS join in and contribute more than our fair share in all that we do and we are happy to do it. In this case, I simply feel that the amount of the den dues is higher than necessary considering achievement requirements and the fact that we have already paid pack fees and that we pay for everything else separately. Thanks for the welcome and good wishes Sentinel947 but I won't be staying on the site. There is a solution for everything and this too will work itself out! I do appreciate your kindness and your help. Have a WONDERFUL day and God bless!

Baseball fan, You are entitled to you opinion just as I am entitled to mine. If I were a DL and I discovered that one of my parents was writing about me, I would become very enlightened about my performance and apologize to that parent for not creating a forum where parents could openly and honestly discuss topics within our own den.

PwB, We have to pay all of our fees and dues up front. We have about 60 scouts in our pack. The $90.00 does not include camping or fees for outings. Our B&G is catered but we have to buy tickets per person and pay for all of that separately.

Ding Ding, I answered your questions with honesty. Sorry if you found my honesty as insulting as your angry, bitter and sarcastic questions.

PbW, Thank you so very much for your informative and respectful response to my question. Our pack does a lot of fundraising and I'm proud to say that our kiddos are very successful with popcorn sales! =0) Last year they had over $10,000 in sales and they are on track to exceed that this year; another reason why I questioned the $40.00 den dues. Thank you again for you kindness and have a SUPER night! God bless!

Wow Ding Dong! You definitely sound angry, bitter and burnt out, not almost there, definitely there! Perhaps you should take some time off to re-visit the 12 Core Values of Scouting. Both my husband and I are VERY involved and OF COURSE we have offered to help source supplies AND time! I'm newer to scouting but I didn't just come in on a load of turnips King Ding Dong! It is absolutely ridiculous that you would even suggest that we would expect the DL to do everything by himself, but I would happily spend time with my son on our table saw to help out the den. As far ropes go, our scouts have received plenty of ropes throughout the years, so they can use those ropes to work on knots. Craft stores are a much more resourceful place to purchase "do-it-yourself" kits if you are secure enough to think outside of the box and be seen in one. It seems to me that some Den Leaders overcomplicate things that are pretty basic and straight forward. I've also run into control issues with Den Leaders and condescending aggression, as you yourself have demonstrated tonight; so much for the "Core Values of Scouting" huh? Oh and by the way, I DO have BOTH of my sons in a GREAT year-round soccer program where they play in a dome during the winter months for $55.00 for an 8 week season. I'm also a stay-at-home Mom and have both of my sons in Catholic school and after-school science programs and other sporting and church activities and we are not a wealthy family. We are just very RESOURCEFUL; you know number 10 on the list of the Core Values of Scouting? Oh, and my other son is a Tiger Scout and his DL does not ask for den dues because his DL is professional, organized, resourceful and ambitious enough to submit receipts to the pack treasurer for reimbursement. As a result of his honorable and stellar actions and leadership, we are all-the-more willing to help in any way possible. In spite of the differences in Den Leaders, we wouldn’t do any less for my Bear Cub’s den because we are dedicated to our sons and the other scouts; it just feels happier and better to help our Tiger Cub DL, formerly the Pack Leader. You on the other hand are the VERY reason why people leave scouting! What a waste of my time!

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Hello Friends! I still consider myself relatively new to scouting, so I'm looking for some advice. One of my sons is just starting his third year of scouting (Bear). He has had the same den leader since joining Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub. This year, his den leader sent an email stating that he discussed den dues with a few parents following a den meeting (we were unable to attend that meeting because my son was sick) and that they decided to implement den dues this year in the amount of $40.00 per scout. This amount is above and beyond the $50.00 pack registration fee that we've already paid. There are 12 scouts in the den so that would be a total of $480.00 in den dues. I looked through the Bear Handbook and from what I can see, only 7 of the 24 required achievements actually require, "materials" which appear to be very minimal. I think $40.00 per scout for den dues is excessive and unnecessary. What are your thoughts?