O'Scouter

and a ridiculous violation of rights.

Definitely have had scenarios over the years where leaders have stolen money from popcorn sales and even from the bank account. Always a difficult situation.

I am fairly new to the forum, however not new to scouting in America. Hopefully America will catch up with the rest of the world and it will all become a non-issue here too. It's really about the kids, right? Welcome, I look forward to getting some new ideas from your side of the world.

I am really surprised.. I have never heard of a troop expecting money from the SM..on the contrary our troop tries to get together a little something for each of the volunteers. Even if it is just a box of candy or some small token. Sheesh.

Fair points.

I don't know. I have seen some pretty awful behavior on trips from some of the dads that I haven't seen from the moms. Maybe they are better at hiding it.

Since they are cubs the options are perhaps somewhat limited. When my older son was a cub we had a couple of 'outpost' experiences which essentially included boating out to one of the local islands and spending the night. The kids thought it was great, and this encouraged lighter packing, more spartan cooking and meal planning ideas. Perhaps you could locate a camping site that has a short hiking component to encourage lighter packing. As I watch people move through scouting it is almost always the same. People start out with a full set of mattresses, cookware, pots and pans and as time moves on they show up with less and less. They learn that setting up the full kitchen and tearing it down takes a lot of the fun out of the experience and that they really don't need the full sleep setup to be comfortable. I think the best way to ease people in is to make sure they have a full list of needs, make sure there is a comfort element for the parents (coffee) and make sure there is entertainment, skits or games, squirt gun fight to rein in busy boys and a treat like s'mores or popcorn to look forward to.

We just have the nesting cookware and a mess kit for each kid, which consists of a cup, plastic plate and silverware in a net bag. Some of the kids have the older metal military style kits but I don't know of anyone who likes to cook in an aluminum pan. 6 person set here http://www.amazon.com/Open-Country-W...5MZYKR68Q225BA

I wrote one 6 months ago when my eldest boy did his EBOR.

Maybe some others can offer some suggestions of other stellar camps that would be worth traveling for. It's a shame about Skymont because it is such a beautiful area. I have also heard good reports about Tesomas.

The point I was trying to make, in retrospect poorly, was that barring something significant such as scout on fire it should be left to SPL with the support of SM.

It's difficult to be diplomatic here so I won't be. This is just my experience. The director is fairly rude and ineffective toward the boys and really rude to visiting parents, our troop almost lost a leader after several failures of safety measures and an anaphylactic reaction. The activities are poorly run, and disorganized,merit badges are haphazardly marked off whether the boys legitimately did the work or not. The food is about what you would expect from a summer camp, edible as long as you are hungry, not great. But the main complaint I have with Skymont is that the staff is irresponsible, and poorly managed and trained in several cases. Bar none, the best scout camp we have been to has been Tomahawk in MN, that was 10 years ago now. We have also done Boxwell, BuckToms, Comer and Philmont (which was also wonderful)

I would not be able to recommend it for a variety of reasons.

I have never heard of a troop where the leadership didn't pitch in together to keep the boys from setting their shoes in fire.

I'd have to second Fred Johnson's suggestion of the superior hiking trail system. The scenery is beautiful and it is set up as you describe as a backpacking trail. http://www.shta.org/Trail/TrailCamping.php http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/state_trails/superior_hiking_trail.html and this has a video about it.