9muckraker7

Look in your personal management merit badge pamphlet and you should find a whole chapter dedicated to "managing debt," which also contains the answer you are looking for.

Great words of wisdom, uncleguinea.

ohhh dear.....i have a feeling this thread is eventually going to be closed....

In a way, America does have its own "Islamic extremist" groups. Have you or do you know of anyone who has looked at those Americans who do not support the war in Iraq as lesser Americans than anyone else; "unpatriotic?" Think about it...

Hate is a powerful thing, and the world can sometimes be a very evil place because of such hate. I never really understood it myself, how one can hate a group of people so much to sacrifice his/her own life to end the lives of others. Maybe this is a twisted and distorted "religion" these people follow, and they're so under the impression that them killing another human being pleases their god. Maybe their government is responsible for spreading bad ideas about other people. Maybe these peoples' hate for another type of people (mentionably the Israeli-Paletinian conflict) is a product of years and years of conflicts, much of the origins of which have been lost with time. With American media today, there really is no question as to how much evil there is in the world; the media today RARELY seems to report on the good news in the world, but rather only on that which involves death and violence. The saying "no news is good news" is indeed true in this sense. Considering this, not all of this "hate" and "violence" of which you speak is only present in other countries...Just look through the newspaper today and find out.

Try to contact the lodge advisor for the lodge servicing your current local council. So long as you are registered with one council (the Atlanta area council of which you speak), you should have no problem registering with that lodge too, if you still have a membership card from Madakawanda Lodge or some proof of membership in the OA. If you do not know who the lodge advisor is, contact the Scout Executive of your Atlanta area council, and he should give you a few useful contacts.

Well said John! My congratulations go out to MTDScouter and his son, this really brightened up my day.

I said that a MAXIMUM of 40 people would attend a meeting, that's including the 15-20 adults who come just to socialize over coffee. Other than the 5-10 really active arrowmen who attend (most of them already have a position on the lodge executive committee), there's usually only about 5 or 6 uninvolved youth members who show up to the meetings. Sometimes there have been meetings when very few showed up and we were forced to call off the meeting. Now, if we'd planned on having only 3 meetings in the year, then cancelling one meeting would mean that we'd only have 2 meetings, when often very few people would show up. On the other hand, this upcoming year looks really promising for chapter development in my lodge. Our lodge chief and chapter chiefs are very ambitious in going about making chapter development their top priority. This upcoming year there will be more chapter meetings, and there's been a plethora of ideas and suggestions from different people in our lodge on how to improve upon, or in this case, establish, the chapter program. The purpose of this thread was to get an idea of how other lodges may go about running their chapter programs. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas posted here; I'll be sure to put them to good use.

Thanks. I'll be sure to put that outline to good use. This raises another question: how many chapter meetings per year on average does your chapter have? The lodge executive committee has hypothesized that one of the main reasons why our chapter programs do not work as well as we'd like them to is because of the small number of meetings the chapters have per year. We had about 3 chapter meetings within the last year, and this year we plan to have 6, which I personally think is not enough. The chapter programs really do not get a chance to develop when they only have 3 meetings in a year with low attendance, then soon after the year ends the chapter leadership is changed (new chapter cheifs are elected or reelected). Pretty much the meetings were just a means of telling those in attendance, who were already involved with the lodge (and likely to have known anyway), about upcoming lodge events. The attendance at the chapter meetings are already extremely low (for my chapter, which boasts about 350 members, a maximum of 40 people [many of whom were vigil honor scouts already greatly involved with the lodge] would attend a meeting). This low attendance rate is largely due to the fact that the chapter meetings aren't very well publicized...They're mentioned in the lodge newsletter a month or two before the meetings, and people do not make note of it... You were right in saying that word of mouth is probably better at publicizing something than so many newsletters and flyers, and I'd like to make that my goal in assisting the chapter: to give a member of the chapter something to rave about to other members after a chapter meeting, and doing so, get other arrowmen to become involved with the chapter and lodge.(This message has been edited by 9muckraker7)

"The chapter plans and staffs our district's Spring Camporee Program.We work with the troops to organise games,Campfire etc. We start planning right after we finish when we are going over the comments from participants.WE do not exclude non-members from staff. We use our Fall programs as a training ground for the youth who will be running Camporee. It's a big deal we had around 900 participants last Spring." Thanks wojauwe, you've just appeased my motif for starting this post...I was thinking about proposing that my chapter plan and run a district camporee. The district camporees are already very POORLY run, and I've come to the conclusion that the many youth involved in the OA could probably do a much better job than the few adult volunteers involved in planning and running the camporees. My lodge has been looking for a good way to make itself known around the council; to the scouts--both to inactive members [of the OA] and to non-members alike. Our chapter program isn't very well developed, even though our chapter chiefs are extremely active and very committed members of our lodge. One of the most impressive things about the OA to me is that it's entirely youth-run. I feel that if this camporee idea works, it will impress many other scouts, and doing so, raise awareness of the lodge among "OA-deprived" units, and have a tremendous impact on the development of the chapter--in getting more members active and in carrying out the mission of the lodge: to serve the council and scouting. My lodge is relatively young and we haven't yet instituted an OA program at our council summer camp (though it is on our to-do list)... The OA members do help out with council events such as camporees, but it's strictly on an assistance level, and never really officially as a lodge.

Great post OGE. This is truly what scouting is all about. ... Well said, Bob.

I'd like to ask everyone how good is your lodge's involvement in your council programs...district/council camporees, summer camp, etc. Does the lodge plan and run (on its own, with little help from the council or district) its own events involving the council, such as camporees and other events, or is its level of involvement simply a matter of assisting the council in its endeavors? How well is the lodge's presence known at the council's summer camp? I'm just looking for ideas to better improve my council-lodge relations...

Get your hands on a Blue Book guide to OA insignia. Otherwise, go to www.oaimages.com for a plethora of information regarding this topic.

Sounds fun Mike! I'll definitely suggest some of those ideas. That's a very inspiring story Eamonn, and I hope our scoutmaster will eventually realize that himself (we've tried to explain that to him time and time again, but he's so set on making this troop out to be the best that he doesn't want to lose). As for Bob White, WELL SAID. The troop should be for the scouts, not the adults, and if the adults are set on winning, then so be it but the troop doesn't have to cater to their likings.

I think Dave brings up an interesting point in his speech that he delivered at the National Order of the Arrow Conferece about a month ago... http://www.oashows.org/videopop.cfm?id=10

Maybe it is that simple. Maybe familiarity does breed contempt. But let's not be that pessimistic... (this post may be a bit confusing, but bear with me) Seeing a friend or longtime acquaintance in a scout uniform does not produce the same FEELING of respect as seeing someone you do not know in a scout uniform. The experiences which we've shared with our longtime scouter friends have most definitely produced a solemn respect for each other. This respect has become regular as we see them on a more regular basis. Perhaps the feelings of respect for those we do know are not the same feelings of respect we have for those we do not see simply because we've already come to realize the brotherhood and friendship of us and each of our scouter friends, and this respect is more of an understood idea (similar to how we all love our parents, siblings, or children but we do not necessarily feel an overwhelming sense of joy or pride every single time we see them). When I see someone in a scout uniform whom I do not know, the feeling of respect is not completely a respect for the person himself, but rather more of a feeling of awe and respect for the scouting movement as a whole, as I realize such a phenomenon that I could just look at someone and respect them just because of the uniform they wear, and the ideals they therefore represent. Another possibility We all like to think the best of things, but when we know THROUGH FAMILIARITY that some of our scouter friends aren't all good and pure and steadfast to the scout oath and law (well, who really is perfect in this sense?), we would not respect them as much as we would respect someone we do not know, who would thereby be defined by the scout uniform he wears.(This message has been edited by 9muckraker7)

This camporee is of high prestige; it's an invitational camporee with much history and tradition in our area. Some scout skills which aren't quite elaborated upon in the scout handbook are utilized at this event (things dealing with height and distance measurement and nature and such), and our troop always needs touching up on most of those topics. Probably the most effective way to prepare for this would be to practice the camporee scenerios on weekend troop camping trips. I'm all for that, and the PLC agrees, but we would still need to do something constructive at the meetings.

I'm not affiliated with the troop aside from knowing a couple people who are in the troop, and they've made this grievance a couple times.

Have fun indeed.

My troop is currently making the transition into a boy-lead unit. Every year there is a camporee for which our troop spends at least 3 months preparing (touching up on scout skills such as first aid, firebuilding, preparing a complete day-pack, knots and lashings, etc.). Over the years, we've been quite successful in the camporee itself, and this success seems to make all the preparing worth it. Lately, however, many of our scouts have been complaining that our 3 grueling months of preparing for such an event tears our troop apart. During these three months the scoutmaster and assistant scoutmasters get caught up in winning 1st place at the camporee and forget about delivering a quality troop program. Being in such the transitional state as it is, the troop program is now in the process of being formulated by the SPL and PLC. Now, the youth leadership has resolved to continue our success with this camporee, but the biggest complaint the scout had was that the training and whatnot for the camporee had been boring and repetitive(it TORE THE TROOP APART!!). Every single week, they'd tie knots and be instructed on first aid and told what to include in their day packs (their day packs would be inspected at the camporee). Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make such preparation less boring and more hands on and more realistic than the "classroom atmosphere" that the training has become?

WOW. This is a great thread. I've been reading in on this and there has been so much I've realized and learned just from this thread; it's just incredible what a little debate and discussion can do. This is like a hardcore scouting philosophy class or something... Keep it comin!

Permission slips...for transportation to and from the project? ...for the coverage of insurance if the kid gets hurt while helping out with an eagle project? Maybe, though it is not necessarily needed. Perhaps if the eagle project was something with some sort of inherant danger involved (something involving ladders and/or operation of power tools or dangerous chemicals), or something lasting more than a total of 6 hours at a time, then maybe a permission slip would be needed. But still, I think it would be up to the scoutmaster or the "eagle candidate" who is in charge of planning and carrying out the project.

Let's keep this thread going! QUICK! Name the 4 'hurry' cases!

There was some sort of video made by the NOAC committee that was available for order/purchase while at NOAC (I think it costed $15). I neglected to purchase the video when I had the chance. Does anyone know how I could acquire one, or was it only available for purchase at NOAC??

This is probably besides the point, but I'll mention it anyway.. Troop X probably pays closer attention to the rules and policies of the organization running the activities (I doubt that the troop went on a whitewater rafting trip just as a troop; they probably booked a trip some miles down the river with a rafting organization separate from scouting [i.e.: Whitewater Challengers]), which often has lower age restrictions. All too often, the G2SS is ignored until some sort of legal conflict comes up. Troops who never had any such conflicts probably never bother to consult the G2SS on matters that aren't seemingly that important. (policies on two-deep leadership, guns and alcohol and violence would be of the more important policies of the G2SS; age restrictions and other "fine print" would seem of lesser importance) Nonetheless, the troop is still a part of the BSA, and being that, it should adhere to all of the BSA's policies first.(This message has been edited by 9muckraker7)