Eagle94-A1

Yes, outdoors.

Same here, especially since there is a demand to go full blown coed from some of the adults in my troop. When having a discussion about needing female Scouters on campouts , the response had been "turn it into a family camp out" if a female Scouter cannot go. Told my boys that I will not go camping with the "linked troops" without a female Scouter present.

Yes it is. Career Interest Exploring and STEM Scouts come to mind.

But look at the number of units that have ignored BSA policy of boys only for Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts over the past 40 years and how what they did is the policy effective June 11th for Cub Scouts and February 1st for Boy Scouts. call me cynical, but I foresee units ignoring BSA policy and going full coed. Heck my own unit has Scouters stating that the girls' troop will be on paper only. They will be "Linked Troops" sharing everything; equipment, meeting nites, camp outs, summer camp, and adult volunteers.

We already have reports from early adopters that some "Girls' den" and the "Boys' den" ideas is not working and that the two dens are doing "joint" activities.

If memory serves, and please correct me if I am not correct @ianwilkins and @Cambridgeskip, when The Scout Association went coed, you could have all male, all female, or coed. Over time there were fewer and fewer all male troops, and eventually everyone was forced to go coed.

But it may be considered a Webelos Den Camp Out. Again WHO KNOWS???????????????? (caps for emphasis, not shouting at you. )

Do not know what is going on with the CO's pack except the CM, who is stepping down at the end of the month, is all for it. Currently the troop is doing a survey of everyone affiliated with the troop: Scouts, parents, and Others (future Scouts, Scouters without kids, etc.). Results are not finished, but so far the ones for girls are adults. The overall majority is against girls, but will deal with them if the CO wants to go coed ( that is how we are reading "Linked Troops"). We do have some Scouts that said if the girls start interfering with their program, they will either transfer or quit altogether. Again very few are all for it. On a positive note, 5 females said they would be willing to become SM/ASMs of the "Linked troop." Hopefully they will be willing to get trained and deprogrammed from Cub Scout Leader mode. You may want to double check on that. My understanding from all the stuff I am seeing regarding YPT2 is that a registered female Scouter over 21 must camp when girls camp, parents do not count.

COs have a lot of authority since they own the units. COs can make stricter policies if they want. While they can give authority of Cub Scout leaders over Boy Scouts, I strongly do not recommend it. There are two completely different programs using trwo completely different methods. Most Cub Scout leaders do not understand Boy Scouts and how it works. And if the Cub Leader, or troop committee member for that matter, is not active with the troop, wear a uniform, etc , how would a Scout know that person is registered? Best example of that type of situation was a recent fundraiser. SPL gave directions to his PLs, and one PL was following through with them. All of a sudden an adult tells him to stop what he is doing and go back to work. A minute of two later I pass the PL and he is confused and asked me what to do. I asked him did he know who it was who told him to stop doing what the SPL told him to do? "No." then I asked was he in uniform? "No." Then do what the SPL told you to do.

Lots of good advice. Don't envy your having to make a decision. After my father left, I had to work. I was fortunate in that lifeguarding was fun. But if I could have staffed camp, I would have, BUt the pay was a heck of a lot better with the lifeguard job.

Awesome. Now I got this song in my head.

NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE!!!!!!!! It is a good to have it a a kneejerk reaction. And I bet you also bang your head everytime you tell folks and they ignore you or think they know better than BSA. At least I do.

@Oldscout448, You know that. I know that. Some of the other adults don't know it, or don't get it. It's been an uphill battle to get it more Scout led over the past 3 years. It seems as if we take steps forward, then backwards. @perdidochas SM came up with that since A) read about 3 month cycles on a blog and thought it was too short and B) Scouts could run for office outside of their sports seasons. Regaridng Advancement, the POR time can eb from multiple positions, i.e. 3 months SPL, 3 months QM. It was an adult decision, but some of the Scouts do like it. I agreed with it since I was getting what I think the troop really needed: monthly PLC meetings. Current SPL, PLs, and other office holders have a full 6 months as normal, for us until the end of May. Incoming group will hold office until September. Next group October -January.

Agree, I do not like the fact that PLs, Instructors, ASPL, SPL, and those assigned to teach skills cannot sign off. That was SOP in my troop growing up. It was also SOP for the PLs, ASPL, and SPL to sit on BORs, until national no longer allowed it in 1989. I was shocked when I found out that our first JASM would be allowed to sign off requirements. Now the other 2 JASMs can do it. One of the ASMs, in fact the Scout above's dad, was dead set against having Scouts sign off on requirements. Apparently when he was a Scout, he had challenges with the other Scouts not signing off his advancement when he demonstrated the skills. For the longest time he stated that the older Scouts do not know the skills well enough to teach them and sign off on them. I guess he changed his mind when his oldest was made a JASM.

Actually he isn't out to be a JASM. Sadly, JASM is not properly utilized in the troop IMHO. It is a "gimmee" or "muligan" position in which those who are coasting to Eagle get. They don't mentor, counsel, or advise anyone. Only real advantage to JASM in my troop is that they are the only Scouts allowed to sign off on advancement. PLs, Instructors, SPL, etc are not allowed to.

Actually I was referring to the Scout in question resisting advice and counseling and not my son. As for my my son resisting advice to appointing him APL, there is advice, counseling, and mentoring, versus coaching and dictating what you will do. I'll give you an example of the difference. Adults asking the PLC to come up with ways to fix the patrol problem is counseling, mentoring advising. Adults telling the PLC and Scout their terms of office is now 4 months,and instead of electing the SPL they will be electing the ASPL who will move up to SPL automatically is dictating. If my son wa asked to consider the Scout, that is one thing. But if it becomes you will appoint him APL, that is dictating.

Considering A) the announcement to change the election cycle from 6 months to 4 months surprised all of the youth and B) they also moved up the election a month so that the incoming PLC can go through "training" ( Not ILST but something an ASM is coming up with, don't ask not happy about it), several Scouts who had not considered running decided to run. Heck Middle Son was going to run unopposed, when someone said they would run at the last minute. But from his actions, from the way my son was describing it, he was more than a little miffed. And it wasn't just at my son, but his entire patrol.

@The Latin Scot I would compare the relationship between the Scout as APL and my son as PL to Monty and Ike. Monty tried to take over, tell Ike what to do, take credit for stuff Ike did until Ike one day had enough and reminded him that he was SHAEF and in charge. My son is pretty laid back, but one day did tell him he's the PL and they were doing things the way he said., @Gwaihir, I don't know about last night yet, but I know previous elections he was "upset" that neither his older son, nor this Scout has been elected to a POR. Older son has had the opportunity, but really doesn't seem to want the responsibility. In the past he was for term limits to "prevent the same people from getting elected over and over," and was one of the proponents of electing ASPL who moves to SPL. He was also for electing APL to move into PL, until I reminded him APL doesn't count for a POR and could actually hurt some Scouts, such as his son. That changed his mind about electing APL to move to the PL. He tried helping him previously when he was last PL, and the Scout was his APL, but the Scout didn't want his help. My son is at the stage of his Scouting career that he no longer needs a POR, but he is too young to be an JASM. But when no one else was able or interested in running against the Scout, he jumped in. He had major concerns about the Scout being PL. and @OldScout448, He dealt with it on his own once before. And things didn't improve. And the way the Scout was acting last nite, he has concerns about the Scout affecting the rest of the patrol. Plus there is the dad issue he is worried about. This is the same ASM who started to publically jump his case about doing things differently than what the troop has done when he was a Scout, but are not how things are suppose to be and I had to jump in. So because of the ASM dad, he wants to chat with the SM.

After last nite, I don't think my son is interested in helping him anymore to be honest. This wasn't the first time something like this happened. They took martial arts together years ago, and something the Scout did then broke the friendship up and they went their separate ways. 5 years later, he joins the troop and their friendship apparently was renewed. I think my son was planning to make him his APL again, he was my son's APL the last time he was PL, but refusing to shake his hand and the way he acted afterwards changed his mind.

What about 2020 or thereafter? And that is a serious question too. Let's face it BSA made the decision to go coed before the town halls were even announced. They had literature in the works and published in July 2017 that used gender neutral language. And Surbaugh's experience has been in Exploring/Venturing. As a former pro, I can tell you that being an Exploring/Venturing exec is a very limiting field for promotions.

After I posted about the troop elections and how good it felt, Oldest relayed to me an incident with one of the Scouts who did not get elected. Long story short, The Scout ran for SPL, ASPL, and PL against my son, and lost all three elections. Now I noticed he was quite red in the face, and looked like his eyes were bloodshot after the elections and at the end of the meeting. He has a history of crying, and I thought that was the case. Apparently that was not the case. Son told me he was extremely ticked off, made some smartaleck comments, refused to shake my son's hand when he offered it, ignored the entire patrol, and gave my son some negative vibes the rest of the meeting that made him uncomfortable to the point that he is going to talk to the SM about the situation next week. He has not picked his APL yet, but Son told me he was encouraged to think about having this Scout as his APL. Son didn't respond to that encouragement, but told me and his mother that after the way the Scout treated him and the patrol after the election, if he is forced to have the Scout as his APL, he will quit the troop. And that action is not something he has considered seriously with all the previous issues he and I have had with the troop. I discussed the matter briefly with Oldest. Reminded him that the Scout is now at a point in his Scouting career where he needs a POR for advancement, and APL will not count. So if he is encouraged to make the Scout his APL, that would be a valid, and tactful way of appointing who he wants. Plus I think the conversation with the SM will help too. In all honesty, my son ran for PL because he did not think the Scout would be a good PL. He is bossy, knows it all, smart alecky, and has not been dependable in the past. And I know many Scouts do agree with my son's assessment of the Scout because he has never held elected office before. In the past I have tried to talk to him,and it is like talking to a brick wall. He only listens to his dad who is also an ASM.

Ok I'm bragging one of my Scouts, one I've had since Tigers was elected SPL tonite. He's overcome some personal challenges, and I think convinced his peers that despite those challenges, he can get the job done. Another one of my Scouts who I have known for a long time ran for ASPL and lost. Listening to him speak and talk about how he has made mistakes, grew from them, and changed since first joining really hit home for me. He had the grace to concede the loss, and took it very well. He lost to another Scout who has faced some severe personal challenges, and needs Scouting now more than ever. Seeing him step up to the plate was heartwarming. But the best came last. Both my sons in the troop were running for PL of their respective patrols, and won. Further the Younger of the completed his First Class BOR, and can now go on the trip he's been wanting to do for a year now, the AT. Seeing these kids grow, mature, and complete goals is why I love Scouting.

1/2 of my book went for a swim on a canoe trip. Thankfully I had the 1/2 with my advancement records, and I made a copy of those "just in case." Turned out I needed those copies.

Upon reflection, go to the SM and/or CC. I was thinking of the situation my oldest was in a few months back where one of the ASMs was "commenting" on his performance as SPL in front of several Scouts and adults.1) Praise in public and criticize in private and 2) what was being commented on may be what the troop has done but is not how things are suppose to be done. Thankfully SM was there and broke up the "conversation" between the ASM and my son, and between the two of us. Thinking about it, CM seems to be jealous that your son was thought highly enough by his peers to be PL and not his son.I'm in the same situation. The ASM above is jealous that my oldest has been elected to both PL and SPL 2 times each now, but his sons have not held elected office yet. Keeps commenting about how his oldest will be the first Eagle he knows of to never hold SPL. And it is going to get interesting tonite. His younger son is running for SPL, ASPL, and PL. He was running unopposed for PL, and about to be automatically named PL, when my son jumped in the race because he feels the Scout is not ready for the job. Knowing the ASM, he's ticked.

As Calico and David said, this is a completely different issue now. Definitely need a polite and civil chat with the CM. If things still don't work out then SM/CC need to get involved. I had to deal with parents resenting one set of Scouts because their sons have not been elected. I'm polite and courteous. But do not mess with my sons.