Eagle94-A1

35 minutes iand 5.5 pages of the syllabus is not enough. Heck I have been through a week long training on Patrol Method, and still learned things afterwards. Unless you got an old school scouter who pushes the Patrol Method at every chance they get during training. The syllabus mentions "Patrol Method" 19 times. I know one old school scouter who mentioned Patrol Method 42 times. Further you have folks who ignore it because "they know better," or "Scouting needs to change with the times." Unless you got an old school scouter who pushes the Patrol Method at every chance they get during training. Unless you really see it in action, or truly live it for an extended period of time, most adults do not get it.

@The Latin Scot, I'm still use to the June 2015 to December 2016 Cub Scout requirements. Those requirements were meant to complete 1 Adventure/month for all levels. Apparently a lot of people complained about them being more involved or harder, so National revamped all of the Cub Scout requirements in December 2016. Apparently it made them easier to do. I know the Castaway Adventure for Webelos was watereddown. Middle son had to do a week without electronics, save school related, in order to get it. But a year later when youngest earned it, that requirement was no more. Middle son was a little peeved.

I thought it was 18 months. 7 months to earn Webelos ( 1 Activity badge/month), 7 months to earn AOL (1 activity/per month), and approx.4 months added in for the tenure requirement ( which varies due to age). Webelos can work on both set of requirements simultaneously, otherwise LDS Webelos would have to make a choice: earn Webelos or AOL.

Mixed emotions on this one. I've seen great, I've seen good, and I've seen poor. I missed out my first summer, so I didn't do a FYC program. But the folks who did go had a tremendous jump start on me advancement wise. And they had a terrific FYC director and staff. He was a retired MGySgt who was firm, fair, and compasionate, But could also put you in your place if needed :) He did it for 25+ years, and when he signed off on something, the scouts truly mastered the skill. Before he passed on, he hand selected his successor, and they continued on his legacy. The program was excellent at that camp when I left. Second camp I had expereince with had issues with there FYC program. They had to many Scouts, and not enough staff. It was an awakening on how different programs can be. Third camp was mix between the two. Good director and staff, but too many Scouts for them to handle by themselves. They asked for Scouters to help out, and many were newly crossed over ex WDLs. Observing them it seemed at times like Cub Scouts, and my son who was in the group concurred. Fourth camp had major issues, and not just with the FYC program. We are not going back any time soon. Last camp did something I never encountered before: split the FYC program into 2 programs. 1/2 day is for Tenderfoot and Second Class advancement. 1/2 day is for First Class. Could not do both, only one or the other. Glad they did that too. Middle son did the First Class program, and he said they didn't do much in it. He said it was a waste of time. I hate to say it, but it is not just FYC programs. I am seeing this more and more with MB classes at summer camp, as well as MBUs. The camp that had major issues actually awarded an Eagle required MB to a Scout who dropped the class the first day to do another MB. We had Scouts "earn" canoeing or kayaking MB after 3 days, yet they spent a good bit of time on land b/c they didn;t have enough boats to take them out. When they went on the troop's canoe trip a month later, there were major issues. Even though they had "earned" the MB, they could not teach the younger Scouts any of the skills.

Problem is national is NOT discouraging it IMHO. As has been posted on several other threads by others, BSA does NOT provide adequate information or training on the Patrol Method. I beleive Hawken and Latin Scot both commented on the lack of information on the Patrol Method and Boy Scouts while they served as Webelos Den Leaders. I admit I have not gone through the current online training. But from what I am hearing and seeing, Cub Scouts and their parents and leaders for the most are not prepared for Boy Scouts. The few units I see that truly prepare their Webelos are those that either have old school Scouters as WDLs and CMs, those who went through the program in which they were transitioned, or have WDLs trained by old school Scouters. And I do not see the term "Family Scouting" for coed Scouting helping. Far from it. I am seeing my troop encouraging the family concept, to the point that parents and siblings are camping and attending meetings in my troop. All under the rubic of "Family Scouting."

Another concern would be for those who need to revise their vacation from work to go. I know where I work at, I gotta plan at least 6 months out. And then I have to see if anyone with longer tenure doesn't have the dates already. It's been 4 years since I had the entire week of summer camp off.

Ok I admit it. When I was a trainer, I said the ideal position of a SM was sitting in his camp chair drinking coffee, or for our LDS brethen hot cocoa. But after experiencing "Coffee from the hammock" as Shug Emery suggests, I will go with your idea, but with coffee.

Sadly effective October 1, 2019, the Patrol Method will be no more. They can no longer do any activities,i.e. meetings, day hikes, grocery shopping, service projects, etc by themselves. They will need 2 registered adults over 21. In essence the Patrol Method is being replaced by Cub Scout dens.😡

I wish more folks would realize this. We had a sibling at the meeting last nite running around and distracting folks with their soccer ball. Parents were no where in site.

I bolded that because it is spot on. Either National is screwing up royally, is preparing for coed patrols. I have a feeling it is to prepare for coed patrols. Otherwise why do 18-20 year olds not count for YP purposes? And I agree with you. I remember doing hikes as a patrol. I remember patrol meetings without adults. I remember doing my Eagle Project on my own with my fellow Scouts (OK mom was there b/c she drove me, and had snacks for us as we did the project. But she was not registered, and she stayed with the car). After October 1st, the Patrol Method as had been preached and practiced since 1907, an din the US since 1910, is effectively no more. I am really hating "Family Scouting."

Again, mixed emotions. My district has one troop that would be considered a "Scoutreach" unit elsewhere. The CO views Scouting not only as an outreach ministry, but also as a community service. The CO is in a rough part of town, and a lot of their Scouts are from the area. They got a great and active program for working with their Scouts, but it comes with a price. One is that they are limited to the number of Scouts they can take aboard. Another is that they rely on 18- 20 year olds to meet the 2 deep leadership as some of their ASMs have health issues and cannot do overnight activities. A third is that they will no longer be able to do patrol activities without adults 21+ being present. Not only the cost of Scouting, but the number of Scouters affects the number they can have max. And I have a feeling the number will be going down come October 1st when patrols are no longer able to do activities on their own and 18 to 20 year olds do not count towards YP standards. Yes they are heavily dependant on the Patrol Method and using their young ASMs who came up from the program. I see two community service projects, Memorial Day Weekend and Salvation Army Bell Ringing, being cancelled because they do these as patrols.

I cannot emphasis Peri enough DO NOT LET NEW SCOUTERS NEAR FIRST YEAR CAMPERS! @69RoadRunner may have been one of the VERY few exceptions. But they are rare and far between. First year Scouters are still in CS leader mode and tend to treat the Scouts as such.

Mixed emotions on Scoutreach programs. I've seen some very successful, and some that were non existant. One key ingrediant with successful Scoutreach programs: either a dedicated, program oriented parapro or volunteer driving the program. I started one such unit and it was successful. However when the SM left, it folded. Good friend of mine was a parapro working 4 units. Do not know how he did it, but they were awesome. But again when he left, those units folded.

If you are the individual who was removed, yes council will tell you. IH and COR will only know via a letter, unit leaders will not know, and, believe it or not, the DE may not even know. When I became a DE and moved into my district, we had a long time Scouter have his membership revoked. All I was told was that if he shows up to any Scouting event, unit, district, or council, I was to call the SE immediately, and be ready to call the police if so instructed. Nothing else was mentioned to me. When he went through BSA's appeals process and lost, he sued, and was temporarily reinstated by the judge until the court case was over. I was not informed about the court case nor that he was reinstated! (emphasis) When he shows up to RT in uniform, I followed the instructions given tot me: call the SE and prepare to call the police. It was when I called the SE that I was informed that he was reinstated and to do nothing else. Still nothing was told to me why this long-time, DAM and SB Scouter who served on district and council levels was removed. All I know for sure was what was printed in the local paper about the course case and why he lost. To this day, I do not know anything else for sure, although there was a lot of rumors and speculation on the matter. On a side note, I am still persona non grata with that unit and CO because I was the DE when he lost the case. This despite the fact that I had nothing to do with it, was not informed of anything except what I stated above, nor was I involved with the court case.

Honor Guard patch is relatively new, within the past 2 years if memory serves. Looking at the uniforms in the photo, I'd say taken around 2009 or 2010, before the patch. If you look all four have the red loops, and definitely 2 are wearing ODL shirts. Also 2 are wearing Gen 1 Switchbacks, and 1 is wearing Gen 3 ODL pants. Only wear is wearing any CU items, specifically the canvas Switchbacks.

One of the reasons why BSA is promoting coed, it is already happening.

Why is the pack waiting until they are in 5th grade to prepare Crossing Over into Boy Scouts? WeBeLoS stands for 'We'll Be Loyal Scouts, and they should begin preparing for Boy Scouts as soon as they become a Webelos, not waiting until after they earn the Webelos Badge. The dens and packs that I have seen with good retention rates of Crossovers staying in Scouting, are those that prepare the Cub Scouts as soon as they become Webelos, and sometimes sooner. So I love the 18 month Webelos/AOL program when it is done properly because it works better than the old 3 year program that I went through back in the day.

I am not a fan of them. But them again I'm am biased. I like simple "plain Jane" dress uniforms without all the pogey cords, lanyards, ascots, chrome domes, etc. But that is me. We have two groups locally providing honor guard services. Neither one wears leggings. One wears red berets with the Honor Guard patch on them. They use the white flag belts and gloves like the group above. The other group does not wear covers ( which I wish they did), and wear the black flag belts. Personally I think the black flag belts look a lot better with the BSA's field uniform than the white. Plus they hide any dirt easier ;)

Jacshirts are no longer allowed to have patches on them, except a few specific ones in specific spots.

I'm game for that. Our backpacking experts in the troop both favor the premade, expensive backpacking meals that you cook in their packaging or in the bag with a coozie. They do not do meals from scratch, and now everyone in the troop goes that route. On a slight tangent, coozies for backpacking meals are AWESOME! Used one my from scratch chicken and buttered pasta meal last trip I took, and it worked great.

True. I remember lots of things BSA has rescinded since I first joined: Women as WDLs, Women as SMs and ASMs, Women in the OA, no gay scouts, no gay Scouters, no girls in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, no pioneering projects over 6 feet in height, no powertools unless a certain age, no patrol overnite camping without adults, no patrol day activities without adults.

@Eagle1993, Yes it does. You also showed another example of someone with the KSA's of the Scouting program stepping up to work with girls. GSUSA is a completely different program, and those experiences do not always correspond to BSA's program.

Good question. Apparently EA Packs have had this issue, and they have "joint meetings" in order to have a program. And packs have larger pools of potential volunteers as parents are told at the round ups they need leaders, at least in my neck of the woods. So while it was theoretical when discussed, it is a real problem now. As to how did we know this would be a problem prior to implementation? When discussed prior to the Town Hall meetings at the district, It was stated that the initial girl troops would be started by existing volunteers as new volunteers would not have the knowledge, skills, and abilities to get new troops up and running properly. Heck my sons' troop has been in existence 6 years now, and we are still not a properly run troop. This is with 3 Eagle Scouts, and a district training chair among the Scouters, who you think we would have the KSAs to do it right!. So focusing on getting girls troops up and running would be on already overcommitted volunteers. having a completely separate troop would mean 2 set of meetings each week, 2 camp outs per month, 2 summer camp weeks, etc. No one at the district level, nor at the Town Hall meeting thought it would work when this fact was brought up. @an_old_DC If the focus is on the one rogue unit, I agree. with you. Or they could do what one troop did: create an all girls Venturing crew so that come February 1, 2019, they have an existing girls troop ready to go.

I am going to go off on a tangent here, but it is related to the topic: Do 18-20 years old ASMs need to have two registered Scouters over 21 if they are doing Scouting activities on their own, i.e. setting up a compass course for a troop competition? According to G2SS, ALL(emphasis) activities will require 21+ year olds after October 1, 2018 according to the latest update found here: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/

We can ask that question to the national level folks. They have not listened to the majority of their members on a variety of issues. As for the boots on the ground, when the town halls were being done, commentary that the entire "separate but equal programs" was discussed. I personally mentioned to my council Key three how from those in favor of girls could not see it as feasible in my district since there is a limited pool of volunteers and resources. The only viable option they saw was full blown coed, with segregated patrols. All the other volunteers in the room agreed with that assessment, and the council key 3 tried to ignore the commentary. Then we get the CSE's vlog with Bryan about the changes. When asked about combining dens, he mentions policy, then adds the comment "as long as everyone is working out of their own book, you will be fine." How can that be interpreted? Then we get the "linked troops" that share everything: meeting place, activities, committee, gear, and ASMs, EXCEPT the SM as they gotta have 2 different SMs. Sounds as if BSA is promoting coed troops to me. Then we get to the Early Adopter packs. Lots of them are having challenges getting enough leaders, and you see more and more of them having "joint den meetings." Just go to some of the facebook pages and look at the pics. Finally, we get to all the changes in Youth Protection. Ignoring the double standard BSA created in allowing 2 females to work with all boys dens, but two men cannot work with girls, we see that patrols are no longer allowed to have meetings and activities on their own without adults. Patrols are now required to have 2 registered adults over 21 with them. SO WHY THE CHANGE? AND WHY DO 18-20 YEAR OLDS NO LONGER COUNT TOWARDS 2 DEEP LEADERSHIP? (caps for emphasis) The only reason I can see is that BSA IS moving towards a fully coed program, and that "linked troops" are the way to get there. So I do not see the volunteers as not following the Scout Law. rather I see national not following the Scout Law, and manipulating the situation to get what they want.