Eagle94-A1

FYI, According to the current online version, which is more uptodate than the pdf version, the patrols can still do day activities on their own without adults until 10-1-18. So the Patrol Method is its terminal stages. 😪

Perhaps that is where BSA has screwed up. BP, Phillips, "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt and others have all stated that the Patrol Method is the only method of Scouting.

While a lot of info is missing, I can see where an neighbor is not happy with living with a camp, and does things to annoy the campers. one local scout camp has been in existence since 1920s, and we have two neighbors complaining about the traffic and noise on weekends. And since they are developing the area, it's going to get worse. We have 'MacMansions" within 1/2 mile of the entrance to the camp, on the Camp Charles Road, and about 2 dozen new homes being built on Boy Scout Road, which ends at the camp entrance.

Have you seen some of the guidance coming from national? It is a charley foxtrot! Best example was the CSE talking about combining girls and boys dens. He begins with the official line, then at the end states, "as long as everyone works out of their own book, you will be fine" or words to that effect. That video can be found on Bryan's Blog. And if you look at the early adopter FB group, you have lots of pictures of "joint den meetings." Heck there was an article about how the girls are better behaved, i.e. sitting still and paying attention, than the boys. And no one is saying that the early adopter is not following the guidelines form national.

With all due respect, "linked troops" will be coed troops. Linked troops share everything: CO; committee; meeting night, time, and location; trips and activities; equipment; and ASMs. The only thing they cannot currently share is SMs. Even then some are saying that is a suggestion and not a requirement for "linked troops." That sounds like a coed troop to me, and all the volunteers I have talked too. It also sounds like a coed troop to the Boy Scouts I've talked to as well.

I think separate boys and girls' troops does make sense when the majority of the current members, parents, and volunteers do not want a "linked troop." I have been told by several folks that they will either quit Scouting altogether, or look for a male-only troop is my troop becomes a "linked troop," aka coed in these parts. The troop would be literally decimated members wise, and lose several key volunteers. Our CO does not financially support the troop and pack. So if they excercised their right as CO and take moneyfrom the troop that the boys earned, yes it would. In fact I bet the folks above would quit over it. But if they gave money from their general funds to help start the girls' troop, no it would not.

No. I do not have any daughters, and know I would be looked at with suspicion by some parents. That suspicion can cause problems that a new unit would not need. This happened to me several times when I was younger and had no kids in the program. Heck it happened with some parents in the troop I grew up in! One mother was very concerned that a 19 year old college student was working with her son. She thought I was a pedophile, and she told me that years later after she got to know me. Two troops I was in had reservations about me, and only accepted me as a volunteer when they verified that I worked for BSA, or checked my references in the neighboring council. Now would I train and mentor new Scouters trying to get it started? Yes. But the point it moot. My sons' troop needs help to get it back on track.

So you too are saying "linked troops" are coed troops?

I have. Very informative, and one of the reason why I am against coed Scouting. That said I am glad I am homeschooling as schools are very rapidly becoming toxic to boys.

Diagram on page 9 with the Cub Scout Diamond is mistake. Keeping with the traditional placement, just adding Lions Bar underneath. This came from the head staffer for Commissioner services, and was posted on facebook.

IT.WON'T. WORK. Even before the linked troop concept was announced, Units were saying "separate but equal" troops would not work, only going full blown coed. With the new YP guidelines going into effect 10-1-18 which effectively kills the Patrol Method, I take it national realizes that "separate but equal" and "linked troops" will not work, and are preparing the groundwork for coed Scouting, BSA. Who knows, National may even decide to allow coed patrols in the future. It certainly looks that way.

DON"T GO THERE! I'll give you one situation that will throw you. Will the 20 year male ASM need to have a male ASM 21+ when he meets with the 21y.o. female ASM who is his fiance/wife? Yes, I saw that happen once. Couple met as Venturers, and followed Venturing YP when in Venturing environment. But both were registered with a troop as well.

Dontcha love BSA communications A month old paper document is already out of date. At least it isn't as bad as the new CS handbooks. Unless someone screwed up the document released yesterday. The doucment published yesterday shows the Cub Scout Ranks Diamond has been reordered. Bobcat is in the Tiger/Webelos Spot, Tiger is in teh Wolf spot, and Wolf is in the Bobcat spot.

GOOD QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My understanding, stressing UNDERSTANDING, is that because MBCs are registered with the BSA and undergo the CBC and must do YPT, they are considered "leaders" and are good to go. I know someone commented when the new YP rules came out that they contacted their summer camp about a parent who was also a MBC, and if they met criteria. Camp said this year yes, but 'always in motion the future is." As for now requiring a 2nd Scouter over 21, or 2 Scouters over 21 if the MBC is under 21( just thought of that issue too) I do not know.

Actually I am quoting the onlive version of the G2SS as the screen capture below shows. This is where I think it will be a battle of the lawyers. if you go the Guide to Safe Scouting Website, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/ It states the following: Download the print-friendly version here. This is the full PDF version that contains updates as of May 2018. Please refer to the online version for the most updated information. [emphasis added Viewing the online Guide The online version of Guide to Safe Scouting is available here. When you click the link to the online version, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/toc/ it gives you a summary of the updates AND a table of contents withlinks to individual sections See below for image. When you click on Youth Protection and Adlut Leadership link, it takes you to this webpage, https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/ On that webpage its what I quoted, i.e the Effective October 1st provision. So, one set of lawyers may try to use the pdf, but another set of lawyers can show that the pdf not only has links to the online version, but also states the online version is updated quarterly, and is more current than the pdf.

Another example of BSA's literature not being consistent and/or lack of understanding, program experience, or ignorance. And probably bot., The printable G2SS PDF published prior to May 3rd 2018 had no "Effective October 1st" disclaimer. When it was first posted here, there were concerns about summer experiences, i.e. summer camp, Philmont, etc in which plans were made using the 18-20 year olds for YP compliance. Making a major change with no advance notice is a serious problem. I know one poster commented that he was contacting Philmont to see if this would affect his crew or not. And I know at RT, the SMs present were hot under the collar, to put it mildly, since several troops were relying on 18-20s to meet YP requirements at summer camp.So I bet councils, as well as national got an earful about these new, essentially last minute rule changes. As noted in the G2SS pdf, the online version is updated quarterly, implying that it is the most current version. Plus BSA announced that the new G2SS pdf was being published prior to the online update.Since the Online version of G2SS is acknowledged by paper version as the most up to date version, and since the online version states https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/ Adult Supervision (Effective October 1, 2018) (Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age or over are required at all Scouting activities, including meetings. There must be a registered female adult leader over 21 in every unit serving females. A registered female adult leader over 21 must be present for any activity involving female youth. Notwithstanding the minimum leader requirements, age- and program-appropriate supervision must always be provided. All adults accompanying a Scouting unit who are present at the activity for 72 total hours or more must be registered as leaders. The 72 hours need not be consecutive. One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting. (Italics and undelining added) It is safe to say someone got a dose of common sense, and is giving us 5 months to adjust. I know some units are having some discussions on this because this change is major, discourages the Patrol Method as originally envisioned by our founders and implemented by them, and they do not have enough healthy over 21 year old adults and rely heavily on their 18-20 year old ASMs

I think I beat ya to it , @JoeBob and they want people registered so they can get money, not just be a chaperone. :)- Seriously though. @fred johnson started a thread stating what has been said in my neck of the woods since before "Linked troops" was even mentioned: "Separate but Equal" and "Linked Troops" is just a step towards coed.

I've known Scouts over the year who did not wear every rank they earned. It was not a big deal to them. Middle son never got to wear his Second Class rank as he earned First Class a month later.

No set answer. Once upon a time, For a troop, the Scout would be verbally recognized as soon as they passed the BOR, but wait until the COH to receive their badges. That is still how many traditional or older troops do things. In the 1980s, the need for "Immediate recognition" at the Cub Scout level came about. Waiting for the monthly pack meeting was not enough. Then in the 1990s, the idea of immediate recognition for Scout troops came about.It was recommended that you give the Scout the patch as soon as possible after the BOR. I am assuming folks were so use to Cub Scouts that the idea of immediate recognition carried over. As others have mentioned, there is a lot of paperwork involved in getting insignia, and ScoutBook will not help to much on the Scout, Sea Scout and Venturing levels as 2 signatures from the BOR are required for ranks. One thing I find insteresting. the recommendation to give the Scout rank ASAP to the youth before the COH has been around for a while. But if you look at t many ECOH pictures, as well as the Cstari Eagle print, all those Eagles are still wearing their Life ranks. Considering most ECOHs are done months after the BOR, you would think that more folks would be wearing their Eagle rank at their COH if immediate recognition was truly the norm.

In my neck of the woods, the majority of troops DO ALLOW patrols to do their own day activities without adults. My troop has allowed patrols to meet on their own and do stuff without Scouters present. One troop is so Patrol Method oriented, that the patrols do their own service multiday service projects all without adults interfering supervising. SPOT ON!!!!!!!! Not only can most adults NOT do it, I would add that it includes those of us who should know better having grown up in the program. Gunship in my other posts is an Eagle, and he is one of the most adult oriented folks around. Helicopter parents make it even worse. Heck we had beginning to interfere last nite during instruction on lashings until the SPL politely put him in his place (what a breath of fresh air the new SPL is). And I see the future of Scouts BSA: family camping a la Cub Scouts. You already have units allowing it. Heck my unit sadly does this now. And those that are for it see BSA's FAMILY SCOUTING emphasis as an endorsement of family camping at the Scout level. My emotions are running the same gamut when I read the latest G2SS on this topic. Got worse when I did the Youth on Youth Protection Training. WOW Scouting is going downhill IMHO. Told my sons some of the stuff, i.e. no more patrol meetings without adults. Oldest is having second thoughts about staying active after earning Eagle, and may be thinking of speeding up his timeline to earn it. Middle son stated he wants to earn Eagle and get out before BSA gets worse. As for the youngest, he is the one who is the least happy with all the changes. I think he believes he is not getting the same program that his brothers had. Oldest made a comment that he may not Cross Over, or if he does won't stay around due to all the changes. National is no longer making Scouting fun. And now with the emphasis on Youth on Youth Protection, it seems as if national is making boys appear prone to verbal, physical, and sexual abuse and not worthy of being trusted out of earshot. When did BSA change it's matra from "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!"

Since my son joined the troop in 2014, we have been through 4 different neckers. First three were official BSA neckers that had been discontinued. We could not even special order them. Current one is custom made, but our source of material is gone. Apparently Uncle Sam is no longer making OD triangle bandages. :( Yes you can.

It all depends upon the camp, and even then it can depend upon the camp director or SE in charge. First two camp sI worked at were in the UK, so they don't count. ;) I wore my standard uniform with their ID badge and/or Sweatshirt. Third camp I worked at you wore your regular uniform, with the camp staff temporary patch, staff hat, and domino. Fourth camp ditto, but had special shoulder loops made, contrary to national policy. Over time they produced a custom POR patch for the staff. You had to have the green Venturing uniform, the silver loops and summer camp crew number on that shirt. Rank, knots, OA flaps, temp insignia, etc was OK. Or you could wear your regular uniform. When I went back to the second camp a few years later, you could wear your regular uniform. At that time national made a standard Camp Staff POR patch. you could wear either Boy Scout or Venturing shirt with that POR patch and silver loops, but no unit numbers. All other insignia was OK. One guy alternated between between his camp staff crew uniform and his Sea Scout uniform, which was cool to see. i was the oddball at that camp.

That was one of the reasons why I was recruited and hired. I had experience both attending camp as a participant, and as a staffer. You don't get to be an area director or camp commissioner without any experience. Plus being a staff advisor as a DE for district and assigned council events give you and advantage in planning and executing events. Agreed. Problem is for the bulk of their hiring, they try to hire from within. One reason why you saw a lot of inflated and inaccurate membership figures in the past, to get the promotions. Then they hire "experts" for other jobs and consulting. The challenge is that these experts usually have little no no experience in Scouting, whether as a youth or volunteer. And these "experts" are so specialized, they cannot see anything outside of their field. Challenge is in a corporation, who is going to be the head and ultimately influence the company: program guy or business guy? A lot of corporations that are in decline do not have a good balance between the two. At the moment, I'd say BSA's bean counters are runnging the shop.

Challenge is that we are not getting more and more high level volunteers and staff with little to know experience AS YOUTH (emphasis), making decisions on program and they do not know what they are talking about. On example I can give is my national supply division boss. She had no experience with Boy Scout summer camp, except hearing stories about it from her brother. Long story short, when I came up with the summer camp trading post schedule for the experimental program the store was in, she questioned every thing I proposed. I explained how things worked at camp, and she ignored me. Funny thing is, she asked one of my coworkers what she thought about her ideas, and my coworker told her, "How would I know, I've never been to summer camp. Ask [Eagle94-A1]. You hired him because he's been to camp before and staffed it." We did it her way that summer, and I racked up so much comp time that I never used it all before I quit. It was only after camp was over and we reviewed the sales log that I was proven correct, and things changed the second year. But that was minor compared to some of the things I am reading and hearing. BSA is hiring "experts" in various areas with no Scouting experience whatsoever. They are taking things from education and applying it to program. Sorry Scouting was never meant to be school. Or they are taking corporate management training courses, and trying to apply it to Cub Scout and Boy Scout training, and neglecting key aspects of program as a result. Take the Patrol Method for example. SM Specific dedicates 5.5 pages of syllabus and 35 minutes of time to it. THE PATROL METHOD IS THE HEART AND SOUL OF SCOUTING AND NEEDS MORE TIME THAN THAT TO EXPLAIN IT! (emphasis).

I do not reading anything at all about Webelos and AOL being two separate programs when I was doing the new program training at RTs prior to it coming out. Otherwise our LDS brethen could not earn both. I do remember that you no longer had to earn Bobcat and Webelos badge to earn AOL. Just the Bobcat badge. I personally think crossing over depend on when they are ready. I know some packs will cross over in December/January because they are chomping at the bit to become Boy Scouts. My sons' pack is like that, but we also do summer activities, so some consider us a year round pack. They also start the transition to Boy Scouts as soon as they become Webelos. Others do it at BnG because of tradition, and their Scouts have a little extra time. But key is ARE THEY READY? I've seen some Scouts cross over and are not ready for Boy Scouts. As for watering down the requirements December 1, 2016, yes they did. I mentioned the Castaway changes as I had to live with them in my house. But I know that one pack's Webelos den was not going to be able to Cross Over as a den in March, until the requirements changed. Everyone, including those whose attendance had been sporadic, was able become Boy Scouts. Sadly we lost 4 of the 9 in less than a year. As for those who join late, it depends. We had some join in 5th grade, not earn AOL, but cross over as they met the age requirement. Others "officially" are still Cub Scouts with the pack, but are doing lots of Troop visits, and working on AOL or bidding their time until they turn 11. It depends upon what the Webelos and parents want. And I agree with Parkman about February at the latest. In addition to getting both Scouts and parents comfortable with the troop prior to summer camp, it gives them a a chance to get the money for it, and possibly do fundraisers with the troop. I was under the old 3 year Cub Scout program, crossing over to Boy Scouts in May of 5th grade. Not only was my mom uncomfortable with the new troop, I had 2-3 weeks to come up with the money! So I missed out my first summer as a Scout.