Eagle94-A1

Regarding lifeguards, while having a certified lifeguard is AWESOME, the current lifeguard courses focus on pools and not lakes and rivers. You need to take an additional course on that if memory serves. BSA Aquatics Supervision Courses, both Safe Swimming and Paddle Sports would be better courses as they focus on lakes and rivers. SSD use to mention being able to use older Scouts with Lifesaving MB.

Safe Swim Defense is an online course that covers these elements of Safe Swim Defense Discipline Buddy System Ability Groups Lifeguards Look Outs Physical Fitness Qualified Supervision Safety Afloat is also online and covers the following elements Qualified Supervision Personal Health Review aka Physical Fitness Swimming Ability Life Jackets Buddy System Skill Proficiency Planning Equipment Discipline An overview can be found here: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/ Without swim tests, everyone is classified as a NONSWIMMER and can go no deeper than the knees. You will need to have an area marked off, people to serve as Lifeguards (minimum of 2, then 1:10 ratio) plus look outs, rescue gear, etc. This may seem overboard, but trust me things happen. We had a Scout cough in a riptide in kneedeep water. I went in to make the save, and ended up becoming victim two. If it wasn't for the surfer who rescued the Scout, and the other lifeguard who got me (once the Scout was rescued) neither one of us would be alive today. As it was I spent 3 months in a sling/imobilizer before and after surgery, then another 6 months of physical therapy. Safe Swim Defense is NOT overboard.

Yes. Swim tests for all, Cubs and adults alike. Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat must be followed. And of course, in a pond or lake, no moving water, for Cubs still.

That's the case with these parents. Dad was never in Scouts as a youth. All their Scouting experience is Cub Scouts ( both are registered with the pack still, mom is a DL, dad a MC) and they think Boy Scouts is just a continuation of Cub Scouts. This is the pack that treats the Webelos like Cubs still, and we have a hight turnover rate with their Scouts. They have been pushing more and mroe family activities.

SM has compromised. SM gave him credit for camping and other requirements that dad intervened and helped with to get Second Class. We have tried to work with the family on 3 different occasions. WE NEVER SAID THEY HAVE TO LEAVE EITHER (emphasis). SM did tell them that after Second Class, he would have to be part of the patrol, do his fair share of the work without dad helping, and camp with his patrol. SM stated that a First Class Scout is one that has mastered basic Scouting outdoor skills and can take care of himself and others without adults present. A First Class Scout is completely comfortable in the outdoors. This Scout is not there. But the parents, especially mom, is pushing and pushing for the Scout to receive First Class. And the situation is starting to affect the rest of the troop. I already mentioned the resentment it is causing. We have one Scout who is afraid of the water, and that is what is holding him back from getting Second and First Class ranks. He has mastered all the other basic outdoor skills, and even taught a session on Leave No Trace principles. He is in the process of overcoming his fears and learning how to swim. He has made some comments about it not being fair that The Scout can get Second Class sleeping without sleeping with his patrol, but he cannot advance due to swimming. The Scout with the medical condition has commented on the situation. And other Scouts have commented that earning rank is no longer a big deal as it appears the ranks are being handed out now. It is causing problems. And the Scout and dad leaving early on the camp out could have affected the entire troop if we were depending upon dad to provide transport for other Scouts, or tow the trailer. Thankfully we had enough drivers, but that could have left us in a lurch if we had more Scouts than seats. But Dad and Scout leaving summer camp without personally telling someone before they left is what really caused latest problem. I do not think they see anything wrong in what they did. I do not think he has any idea of the problems it could have caused if the text was not received before light outs. It's almost as if the family believes the rules do not apply to them. And as I stated, WE DID NOT TELL THEM THEY WOULD NEED TO LEAVE. We have tried to work with them and encourage the Scout. They were the ones that first mentioned leaving to join another troop. They got upset when the SM talked to them and the Scout about Second Class and needing to camp with his patrol form now own. They mentioned leaving then. Irony is the troop they will be visiting is a hard core, patrol method troop. It is the one that most reminds me of the troop I grew up in. And it is the one that if issues get worse in my troop, my sons are thinking of transferring to. I do not see the family joining that troop, or if they do, staying long. that troop will not compromise their program.

I sure hope my chapter doesn't do that with the regalia they use and the drum. 1/2 the regalia is my personal stuff I am loaning to them. And while they bought the drum, My oldest and I built the stand for it. My hope was that someday he would be and Arrowman, and sit at the drum to sing. With all the changes going on, he has no interest in the OA.

I know the requirements do not state anything about parents on a camp out. His mom is arguing that as to why he should be allowed to advance to First Class. But the Scout in question has not spent one night in a tent he has pitched. He will be with his patrol, set up tents, or survival shelters, with them, and then sneak off. Only one night did he sleep in a shelter he helped build with his patrol. Dad stayed outside the shelter until he fell asleep that night. Then second night he snuck into the parents tent. Since he has not slept in a tent he pitched, he should not even be Tenderfoot, let alone Second Class. And we have one Scout with a documented medical condition who spent the first year camping with dad. That Scout and his patrol mates old set up dad's tent so that the challenged scout could " Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch." Challenged Scout has not had any issues of late, and is sleeping with the patrol with some precautions.

I hear ya @ParkMan. But this has been happening over a year's time. We have tried tow work with the Scout. but A) The Scout is not even trying to hold up to his end of the agreement, B) dad is encouraging it, C) other scouts in the troop are seeing this and becoming resentful and D) the family mentioned leaving, not the SM. He's been in over a year. He's been on 6 overnite camp outs, leaving Saturday night on a 7th one because he refused to stay in a tent with his patrol, and attended 2 summer camps. We have tried to work with him, but he keeps sneaking out and joining his dad, and when mom and little brother are in attendance, the family. He is leaving his patrol behind, and leaving his buddy behind. In once case the buddy panicked when he woke up and found his buddy was missing. This caused both of them to sleep outside the father's survival shelter instead of in their own with the patrol. Apparently he was sneaking out of the tent and joining his dad last year at summer camp as well as this year. As mentioned, last weekend trip he decided he was not going to stay unless he could stay with is dad, and they left. SM talked about this to the parents and the Scout when they were pushing for a Second Class SMC and BOR. Everyone agreed the Scout would sleep with his patrol f rom now on in order to advance to First Class, and the Scout has not kept his end of that bargain.So we tried to work with them, and the situation has continued. And even got worse with summer camp. Not only did the Scout leave his tentmate to sleep with dad, both them left camp one nite to stay at a hotel with mom and sibling without telling anyone until AFTER they arrived at the hotel. Dad texted the two other Scouters at camp that he was at the camp with the Scout and they would be back in time for the first class. Thankfully one Scouter got the text that nite before anyone became aware they were missing. The acting SM didn't receive the message until the next mornign at breakfast. Can you imagine the problem that would have caused at summer camp with a lost camper drill and they are off site! As I said dad is encouraging it. When other adults talk to the Scout about the situation, dad says nothing. When this was discussed last time with the Scout and his dad for Second Class, another adult overheard him mutter to himself about if his son wants to sleep in his tent, he will. On the last weekend trip, dad didn't try to convince his son to stay. They left. Thankfully we had enough drivers, although it was tight. Some of the Scouts are getting resentful about him getting rank without actually earning it. We have one guy, been in a few months longer than the Scout above, who is afraid of water. He has done everything for all requirements through First Class, except the swimming. He hasn't said anything to the Scouters, but has told his mom how he cannto understand the Scout above being able to advance, but he can't due to swimming. Thankfully he been getting some swim lessons from one of the Scouters, and passed a Beginner test. Still working on Swimmer test. But he isn't the only one. other have commented how the Scout will not really work with his patrol. There have been complaints about dad doing the cooking and KP for him in the past. Yes, this is the dad who caused the entire patrol to walk off because he jumped in to do KP. Older Scouts have tried to work with the Scout, and dad has jumped in. So the situation is affecting the entire troop. Finally, the SM talked to them about the entire situation. He talked about how he depends on the adults to do what they say they will do. He talked about leaving camp without telling anyone and the problems it could have caused. He talked about how the Scout is not maturing and how the situation is actually harming the Scout. The discussion covered the same material as the new parent orientation they attended over a year ago, and had again 2 additional times since they joined the troop AND was reiterated a 4th time when they approached the SM for their son's Second Class SMC. The SM did not invite them to leave the troop, but tried a 4th time to emphasize the Aims and Methods of Scouting, and how the troop applies them. The parents are the ones who suggested another troop. And this is not the first time they suggested leaving either. When the SM talked to them before on this matter, they hinted at going to a neighboring troop because that troop said they did not have a problem parents camping with the troop. And that troop doesn't as long as the parents respect the rules the troop has in place for how adults act. And camping with mom and dad is not allowed.

SM caved in to parents and tried to compromise with them. He could advance to Second Class, but he would have to camp on his own from then on. As you can imagine, once word got out, other Socuts were not happy.

In my and other people's opinions, yes. When this first arose and the SM talked to them, Scout agreed to stop sneaking out and sleeping with dad. The Scout has gone back on his word, and dad refuses to encourage his son to keep his word. And it has turned into a safety issue. On multiple occasions now, Scout has abandoned his tentmate, leaving them alone. In one case this caused the shelter mate, upon waking up, to panic because the Scout was alone. That scout would not go back without his buddy. Long story short, both Scouts stayed outside the dad's survival shelter. Funny thing is, we are not a hard core troop compared to two she wants the family to visit. THAT will be a reality check!

Mothering. She keeps emphasizing his age as a factor as to why he should be allowed to sleep with dad. His den crossed over last year. So he has folks the same age, and also younger from this years' crossovers, who are camping with their patrols with no problem. Plus he's been with the troop over a year now. If dad would have discouraged him, instead of encouraginghim, this would not be a problem in my expereince. Since he has been in Boy Scouts over a year and is Second Class (don't ask), I do not see any troop allowing the family to keep it up. And the Scout with a medical condition is the same age as the Scout above, and he is fighting tooth and nail to be able to camp with his patrol.

Update. SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol.

One thing I heard about was solid colored shirts. each prinicpal ceremonialist would have a corresponding colored shirt that symbolizes something.

More than likely yes. They will either need to take a bridge course in order to staff the new one, or redo WB. Just like the old course participants.

Thankfully patrols still have time to do patrol activities without adults. Per the ONLINE G2SS, which according to the print copy IS the most current version, Has this to say: Adult Supervision (Effective October 1, 2018) Two registered adult leaders 21 years of age .... So the new DEN METHOD for SCOUTS is not in effect yet. And for those freaking out about patrols doing their own stuff without adults, a reminder of the Current policy. I found the 2015 G2SS and this is what is says: • Patrol Activities There are instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to patrol leadership training and guidance. With proper training, guidance, and approval by troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects.

A new Eagle Scout can instantly receive, alongside his Eagle medal, all Eagle Palms he has earned for merit badges completed before he became an Eagle Scout. These Palms recognize additional merit badges earned before completing the Eagle board of review. Previously, an Eagle Scout needed to wait three months between each Palm — even if he earned the extra merit badges before becoming an Eagle. This meant that, under the old rules, a young man who became an Eagle Scout at 17 years and 10 months, was mathematically unable to earn any Eagle Palms. Example: Glenn, a 16-year-old Life Scout, has 36 merit badges at the time of his Eagle Scout board of review — 15 more than required. Previously, he would’ve needed to wait three months after his Eagle board of review to receive his Bronze Palm, another three months for his Gold Palm and another three for his Silver Palm. Under the new rules, he can get that Silver Palm (representing 15 additional merit badges) along with his Eagle medal at his Eagle Scout court of honor. No wait required. Note: After becoming an Eagle Scout and receiving the Palms already earned, additional Palms may be earned by completing the revised requirements, including the three months tenure between awarding each Palm. The three-month tenure requirement has been expanded to allow active participation in any BSA program — not just the troop and patrol. This recognizes that as some Scouts get older, their Scouting participation shifts to the Order of the Arrow, summer camp staff or elsewhere. The leadership requirement has been broadened to include “accepting responsibility” as well as “demonstrating leadership.” The Eagle Palm board of review has been eliminated. Eagle Palms are not ranks, so the Eagle Palm board of review was seen as an unnecessary step. A unit leader conference is deemed to be sufficient and may be conducted at any time during the tenure requirement.

Different areas have different traditions. Even within the same pack, things may be done differently than in the past. My pack has no set ceremony. We've attempted to use the OA the past few years, but the chapter is dying out, and have had no success the past 3 years. So we have used non-OA ceremonies. The pack also did AOL and Crossover as the Webelos earned it. They had 3 to 4 ceremonies in a year. It got a bit too much, and they went to one night for both ceremonies. And I've seen Webelos receive their AOL, but not continue on in Boy Scouts. Some Webelos do not do the Cross Over Ceremony. We had to many doing the ceremony and receiving the troop necker and never seeing them after that night. We remove their Webelos neckerchief, and tell them they will receive their troop necker when they earn their Scout rank. Troop does an old Investiture Ceremony for their necker and rank. Back on topic. I've used ceremonies teams to reinvigorate the chapter in the past. We have some interest in ceremonies now, and I was going to work with a team again. My son's WDL has twins in the OA who are interested in ceremonies, but they read the new policy and scripts. They are thinking of either not doing it at all, or going rogue. While cheerful service is the heart of the OA, Native American imagery was the soul of the OA. It inspired and motivated. I know there is talk of going back to the original black robes Goodman and Edson used. In my area they will not work. My chapter had folks do OA Trail Crew that used black robes for their ceremony and brought it back to the chapter. Our Brotherhood team used them briefly as we got tones of complaints. Complaints about the the robes ranged from being "satanic" to the robes being too close to the KKK. They stopped using them and went back to Native regalia.

Units cannot add or subtract from advancement requirements. SMs do select whom the Scout sees as an MBC. We have had challenges on both ends of the spectrum when it came to parents singing off. We had one parent who just gave advancement away like it was Cub Scouts. And we had one parent who was expecting more from their Scout than other Scouts. Besides one reason for the MBC is Adult Association, to get them use to working with multiple adults. And sadly in my neck of the woods, approximately 95% of the MBCs will only work with their units. Only folks in my district who are willing to work with any youth are several of the MBCs from my unit, and 3 or 4 others.

Guide to Advancment, found here, https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf has this to say: 7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges From time to time, it may be discovered that merit badges could not actually have been earned. For example, a Scout who returns from summer camp or a merit badge fair with signed blue cards for an extraordinary number of badges could raise concerns. If, after consulting with those involved in the merit badge program—such as an event coordinator, the camp director, or a merit badge counselor—it becomes plainly evident that a youth could not have actually and personally fulfilled requirements as written, then the limited recourse outlined below is available. It may result in a decision that some or all of the requirements for a badge could not have been fulfilled, and thus, that the badge was not actually earned. After such a consultation, the unit leader, in a positive environment similar to that of a unit leader conference,discusses with the Scout the circumstances under which a merit badge in question was approved. A parent or an assistant unit leader should attend as an observer. The young man shall not be retested on the requirements, but a conversation with him can reveal if he was present at the class and actually and personally fulfilled all the requirements. Such a discussion could cover who taught a class, what sort of activities took place, where and when they occurred, how testing was done, what the Scout might have brought home from the class, and other similar process-oriented details. In most cases, with a fair and friendly approach, a young man who did not complete the requirements will admit it. Short of this, however, if it remains clear under the circumstances that some or all of the requirements could not have been met, then the merit badge is not reported or awarded, and does not count toward advancement. The unit leader then offers the name of at least one other merit badge counselor through whom any incomplete requirements may be finished. Note that in this case a merit badge is not “taken away” because, although signed off, it was never actually earned. Just as we avoid penalizing Scouts for the mistakes of adults, it should be a rare occurrence that a unit leader finds the need to question whether merit badges have been earned. This procedure for recourse is limited and reserved only for clear and evident cases of noncompletion or nonparticipation. For example, the recourse could be allowed when it would not have been possible to complete a specific requirement at the location of the class, event, or camp; if time available was not sufficient—perhaps due to class size or other factors—for the counselor to observe that each Scout personally and actually completed all the requirements; if time available was insufficient for a “calendar” requirement such as for Personal Fitness or Personal Management; or if multiple merit badges in question were scheduled at the same time. This procedure is not to be viewed as an opportunity for retesting on requirements, for interjecting another set of standards over those of a merit badge counselor, or for debating issues such as whether a Scout was strong enough, mature enough, or old enough to have completed requirement Unit leaders who find it necessary to make use of this recourse must act quickly—if possible, within 30 days of discovery. It is inappropriate to delay a Scout’s advancement with anything less than a prompt decision. If a Scout or his parent or guardian believes a unit leader has incorrectly determined a Scout has not earned a merit badge, or more than 30 days have passed without a reasonable explanation for the lack of a decision, they should address their concerns with the unit committee. They should first, however, develop a thorough understanding of the merit badge requirements and that each one must be passed exactly as it is set forth. Upon encountering any merit badge program where BSA standards are not upheld, unit leaders are strongly encouraged to report the incident to the council advancement committee, preferably using the form found in the appendix (see “Reporting Merit Badge Counseling Concerns,” 11.1.0.0) Now all that cut, pasted, and edited to make it smoother, Jameson76 stated it correctly. talking to the Scout should give you an adequate feel if they completed hte number of nights or not. And if they are recording it in the log in the HB, even better. Now dad signing off is a red flag for me, but that is because of my unit. Parents are not allowed to sign off on any requirements except in a very few circumstances, i.e. Family Life MB, parent is an MBC and working WITH A GROUP ( emphasis) that their son is in. One of the biggest reasons for that was an incident where mom signed off on EVERYTHING between Tenderfoot and First Class, and it was not caught until after his BOR.

What if they dropped their sashes to protest an executive committee comprised of 3 youth, approximately 57 adult volunteers, and 6 professionals making a decision for what is suppose to be a YOUTH LED organization and had 0 input from its membership. At least BSA did town halls when they made the girls decision, although they won't publish the memberships' results.

I remember one time my lodge took a vote to change the lodge bylaws. The changes were pushed by a few adults, including the LA. When the lodge as a whole voted against the measures that were proposed, the LA told everyone in attendance that he didn't care what the youth wanted, the suggestion for the change came from national, and the lodge was changing regardless. Many Arrowman, youth and adult, wore their sashes inside out or took them off in protest. So yes, I see this decision being made by the adults, and not hte youth.

Looking at list of the Executive Committee you provided, only 3 members have (y) behind their names. And of the three, only the national chief and vice-chief are current officers. None of the 4 region chiefs are listed. It appears to me that the youth are NOT being truly represented. It appears to me a bunch of "Old Fogeys" like myself are making the decisions, instead of sitting back, drinking a cup of joe ot hot chocolate, and trusting the youth to make the right decisions.

@walk in the woods, I apologize for my comment. The sarcasm went over my head as I am a little distraught over this decision.. This decision has hit home on several levels. First and foremost, my youngest will be crossing over in February. His entire den wanted the OA to do the ceremony in full regalia. The regalia was well researched, and with the exceptions of the moccasins, 100% accurate. I know as I helped the ceremony team do the research and making the regalia. Now this cannot happen. And yes it passed muster with Native Americans attending ceremonies, and a Indian Lore MB class with the regalia set out for display. The other reason it hits home is that I was a ceremonialist and AIA chair as a youth. I was inspired the first time I saw the OA, at my own AOL and Crossover. I've had the privilege of performing those ceremonies and seeing Cub Scouts faces when they saw us in full regalia. My chapter was restarted because of the AOL/Crossover ceremonies. And as a chapter advisor starting a new chapter or restarting a dying one, I've used ceremonies and AIA to gain interest. My chapter is essentially dead again, and I have been asked to restart it again after a 10 year period. I've been thinking about taking the job again, but without the use of public ceremonies in full regalia, I do not think I will be able to get enough interest. Even those no interested in ceremonies got inspiration form them.

And what is the percentage of Scouts actually that go to a national HA base?