Eagle94-A1

Not only as a former lifeguard and lifeguard instructor, but also as a drowning survivor, I AM APPALLED BY THE WAY THIS TROOP IS HANDLING THE SITUATION! I drowned as a kid and had was resuscitated. I was terrified of swimming for years after that. Scouting is what forced me to face my fears, and overcome them. I was 12 years old before I was finally able to pass a swim test and earn First Class. And I am so glad I did. Not only was I able to advance, I was able to do some great adventures. All three of my 50 milers have been afloat, either canoe or sailboat. I developed a love of the water that led me to get a job as a lifeguard and eventually instructor. And I find it insulting to those who follow the requirements to the letter. Forget me for a moment. I had a scout who mastered basic Scouting skills while a Webelos. This guy had a shelter built, fire going, and chilling out cooking his lunch before I even had my shelter 1/2 way completed when working on Castaway. I would take him anywhere except for one thing; he could not swim. He has been in the troop 20 months, and has been Tenderfoot for 17 of those months. He's taken Instructional Swim the past two summer at camp, and I just completed 3 weeks of working with him. He finally passed Beginner test and earned Second Class last month. He just passed the Swimmer test last week, and is now ready for a First Class BOR. Once he passes that, it's 4 months in a POR for Star. As other stated, Swimming is a life skill, and an extremely important one. Sadly, you are correct. BSA has removed the term "Master the skill...." that was in previous handbooks, guides, and training literature that many of us old fogeys grew up under and were first Scouters under. They also removed the replacement phrase, 'The badge represents what a Scout can do, not what he has done." from guides and training materials.

UPDATE: Guideline has been rescinded. BB Guns memo from A. Lambert 8-11-18.pdf Text is following August 11, 2018 Colleagues, It has come to our attention that a recent program change is causing some distress in the field. You are aware that this past May, a joint group of well-meaning volunteers and professionals recommended a change to the age-appropriate guidelines for shooting sports related to Tigers in Cub Scouts. Prior to this change, the use of BB guns was approved for use by councils or districts at their discretion, starting with Tigers. The change shifted the guidelines to allow the use of BB guns to begin with the Wolves and Bears. While we appreciate the spirit that brought this team to their recommendation, we are withdrawing the change effective immediately. The safe use of BB guns will remain at the discretion of the Council and for use in council and district program for Tigers, Wolves, Bears and Webelos. We encourage Councils to work with parents, staff, partners and Scouts to ensure that these programs are safe for our Scouts and that they have the necessary help and support to make our shooting sports programs successful and fun. You’ll see further information in next week’s Scout Executive packet. Please let me know if you have any questions. The program teams at the National Service Center stand ready to help. Al Lambert Assistant Chief Scout Executive National Director of Outdoor Adventures Boy Scouts of America

Clueless is am understatement. 16 for Venturing? 10 months to earn Eagle? Segregated patrols instead of troops (oops I forgot "Linked Troops"). And if members were so for it, WHY DON'T THEY PUBLISH THE ACTUAL TOWN HALL MEMBERSHIP SURVEY RESULTS? (emphasis)

That's the funny thing, IT IS NOT STATED IN THE G2SS! (emphasis, not shouting). Check the online version and the pdf version. It is not there. Only the Age Appropriate Guidelines document has this rule. And for whatever reason, that document can only be found on the shooting sports page of the BSA Website.

FIGHT TOOTH AND NAIL! May want lawyers involved. As I stated once blacklisted, permanently blacklisted, even if proven innocent later. EDITED: Demand a copy of everything the council on why to blacklist and what they are doing to get him blacklisted. And Definitely get a lawyer PRIOR to the name's submission. Once on the black list, it will be 100 times harder to get off of it. In fact I know of only 1 case where the person blacklisted was reinstated. Case involved SM in a bar with a uniform on a scout trip. Long story short, bar was the closest place with a phone to call EMS that involved an accident he Scouts were doing first aid on. Took 9+ months to get reinstated if memory serves.

Don't count on them being allowed to return if proven innocent. We had one very active Scouter who was removed based upon an accusation. Criminal investigation cleared her but she was not allowed to be reinstated. She was extremely active on the district and council level.

He's out of the country at the moment. Someone on FB posted a letter from their council stating that it is a mistake and an updated form will be coming shortly. I think it is also the same person who posted the toll free number to national to tell them how you feel about the new rule.

Interesting! Wonder when that changed because we had one guy in my Ship who was working on both Eagle and Quartermaster. Policy then was no double dipping. But that was 20+ years ago. Specialist would cover it. It was a catch all POR with folks focusing on special skills or assignments. I was a specialist for my ship, focusing on drill and naval customs. But event chair could fall under assigned leadership project for Star and Life.

Program has already changed. After October 1, 2018 the patrol method will be replaced with the den method. If that is not a reversal, I do not know what is. 18- 20 year old SCOUTERS (emphasis) will no longer county towards Youth Protection requirements. IMO that is a reversal. We spend 7 years to "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" then when they become adults, say sorry, we don't trust ya. Heck National no longer trusts them, as seen by the Den Method removing the last bit of INDEPENDENT Patrols ( again emphasis). Forgot to add, Tigers can no longer do BB Guns. That is a reversal of policy.

If memory serves, just no 'double dippin" i.e. using the same POR for both Boy Scout and Sea Scout rank advancement, service project counts towards one rank or the other, etc. Glad he found his happy place and good luck and fair winds to him. Not only do I hope he earns Eagle, but Quartermaster as well.

No DE to night. But I went searching online. Daisy model 1938 is what we use for some of the rifles. We never have trouble with Tigers shooting because an adult partner is suppose to be with them at all times. I have always seen Tiger partners with their Tigers, and accompanied my sons when they were Tigers to shoot. Whenever I ran a course with Tigers, I always had their adult partner helping them. Only time I ever had trouble was with twins. We had to have them shoot one at a time, and not together.

But it is not listed on the online version, which according to the print versions IS the most current version.Nor is it listed in the online PDF. I will talk to my DE tonight, if he shows up to RT, and get the info today. THIS https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/multigun.pdf Accoding to the manual, you need council approval to do the activity. But according to the new guidlines you do not.

No typo. Shooting Sports Awards book was not updated when this policy came out. It is now in the process of being updated. On a different note, it appears that troops, ships, and crews will no longer need council approval for the Multigun Airsoft Expereince. It is no longer showing it is no longer showing that approval is needed with the new guidelines.

Pack will be accepting girls. CO is trying for form a separate, non-linked troop for the girls. This is actually falling upon the Scouters who have daughters though. Troop took a poll on the topic and while accepting that girls will be in Scouting, they do not want to be a "linked" troop. If we become a "linked" troop, aka coed troop, over 50% of the Scouts will transfer or quit.

It will be a problem for my area. We have several major events during the year that include Tigers, and now Lions, that have BB gun ranges.Because it is a free flow type event with no set times, just wait in line for your turn. Because of the numbers, we cannot tell who is what level unless they are wearing their neckers. I already see problems with this rule being enforced. On a different note, I am glad my youngest will be Crossing Over soon.

Heads up, as of May 2018, Tuigers are no longer allowed to do BB Guns. Here si the document link https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/HealthSafety/pdf/680-685.pdf Note this is not in the G2SS, but in a separate, 2 page document. Just found out today. Ticked off about this rule.

Sadly, not every council has a list of approved camp grounds for Cubs. Some councils still have folks who believe "Cubs don't need to camp" on their camping committees. That's my council. My pack only goes to places listed in the OA's Where to Go Camping book since that is the closest thing to council approved locations. I've been told some councils only approved their own camps for packs to camp in. FYI prior to May 2015, Cub Scout packs and dens were not allowed to do boating activities. Cubs were only allowed to do boating at district/council run events. I had a discussion with my SE about why Packs could not take advantage of the boat rentals at the local Scout camp. Also commented how the new boating adventures could only be done at the district/council level. Thankfully that policy changed. It's only 3 years old, not 80.

Black robes won't work in my area as we tried once before. Got complaints about the black robes being satanic as well as too reminiscent of the KKK robes.

Thankfully that new policy only affects the OA, not individual packs and/or troops.

Regarding knots and professionals. unless things have changed in the 20 years since I was a pro, professionals are barred from earning knots with a few exceptions, i.e. Professional Training (aka Darth vader knot), Heroism Award, West, etc. So Pros cannot earn the Keys, Training Awards, District Awards of Merit, etc. And they are ineligible for those recognition for 5 years after leaving the profession. We had a guy who was a pro, and retired. He was from the area and continued to volunteer, and served in multiple positions. Every new DE tried to put his name in for both DAM and SB because he was that helpful, and all three DEs were told he is ineligible because of the 5 year rule. 4 DE was successful, because it was the 6th year after retirement. Another former pro I know was put in for the DAM and rejected because of the 5 year rule.

Regarding lifeguards, while having a certified lifeguard is AWESOME, the current lifeguard courses focus on pools and not lakes and rivers. You need to take an additional course on that if memory serves. BSA Aquatics Supervision Courses, both Safe Swimming and Paddle Sports would be better courses as they focus on lakes and rivers. SSD use to mention being able to use older Scouts with Lifesaving MB.

Safe Swim Defense is an online course that covers these elements of Safe Swim Defense Discipline Buddy System Ability Groups Lifeguards Look Outs Physical Fitness Qualified Supervision Safety Afloat is also online and covers the following elements Qualified Supervision Personal Health Review aka Physical Fitness Swimming Ability Life Jackets Buddy System Skill Proficiency Planning Equipment Discipline An overview can be found here: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss02/ Without swim tests, everyone is classified as a NONSWIMMER and can go no deeper than the knees. You will need to have an area marked off, people to serve as Lifeguards (minimum of 2, then 1:10 ratio) plus look outs, rescue gear, etc. This may seem overboard, but trust me things happen. We had a Scout cough in a riptide in kneedeep water. I went in to make the save, and ended up becoming victim two. If it wasn't for the surfer who rescued the Scout, and the other lifeguard who got me (once the Scout was rescued) neither one of us would be alive today. As it was I spent 3 months in a sling/imobilizer before and after surgery, then another 6 months of physical therapy. Safe Swim Defense is NOT overboard.

Yes. Swim tests for all, Cubs and adults alike. Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat must be followed. And of course, in a pond or lake, no moving water, for Cubs still.

That's the case with these parents. Dad was never in Scouts as a youth. All their Scouting experience is Cub Scouts ( both are registered with the pack still, mom is a DL, dad a MC) and they think Boy Scouts is just a continuation of Cub Scouts. This is the pack that treats the Webelos like Cubs still, and we have a hight turnover rate with their Scouts. They have been pushing more and mroe family activities.

SM has compromised. SM gave him credit for camping and other requirements that dad intervened and helped with to get Second Class. We have tried to work with the family on 3 different occasions. WE NEVER SAID THEY HAVE TO LEAVE EITHER (emphasis). SM did tell them that after Second Class, he would have to be part of the patrol, do his fair share of the work without dad helping, and camp with his patrol. SM stated that a First Class Scout is one that has mastered basic Scouting outdoor skills and can take care of himself and others without adults present. A First Class Scout is completely comfortable in the outdoors. This Scout is not there. But the parents, especially mom, is pushing and pushing for the Scout to receive First Class. And the situation is starting to affect the rest of the troop. I already mentioned the resentment it is causing. We have one Scout who is afraid of the water, and that is what is holding him back from getting Second and First Class ranks. He has mastered all the other basic outdoor skills, and even taught a session on Leave No Trace principles. He is in the process of overcoming his fears and learning how to swim. He has made some comments about it not being fair that The Scout can get Second Class sleeping without sleeping with his patrol, but he cannot advance due to swimming. The Scout with the medical condition has commented on the situation. And other Scouts have commented that earning rank is no longer a big deal as it appears the ranks are being handed out now. It is causing problems. And the Scout and dad leaving early on the camp out could have affected the entire troop if we were depending upon dad to provide transport for other Scouts, or tow the trailer. Thankfully we had enough drivers, but that could have left us in a lurch if we had more Scouts than seats. But Dad and Scout leaving summer camp without personally telling someone before they left is what really caused latest problem. I do not think they see anything wrong in what they did. I do not think he has any idea of the problems it could have caused if the text was not received before light outs. It's almost as if the family believes the rules do not apply to them. And as I stated, WE DID NOT TELL THEM THEY WOULD NEED TO LEAVE. We have tried to work with them and encourage the Scout. They were the ones that first mentioned leaving to join another troop. They got upset when the SM talked to them and the Scout about Second Class and needing to camp with his patrol form now own. They mentioned leaving then. Irony is the troop they will be visiting is a hard core, patrol method troop. It is the one that most reminds me of the troop I grew up in. And it is the one that if issues get worse in my troop, my sons are thinking of transferring to. I do not see the family joining that troop, or if they do, staying long. that troop will not compromise their program.