Eagle94-A1

THANK YOU for the plain English version of what I've found which is the 1st link. Everything I've found is from medical databases at work, and extremely technical.

UPDATE: Found out the young lady will NOT be attending the camp out last night. When the CM found out, she told the Tiger DL she didn't need to go. Tiger DL stated she will still be going, "if it's Scouting I'm going." And if she goes her Tiger goes. 😠 Family Scouting, you gotta love it.

OK, I cannot find my old papers and what not. Going from memory. Girls mature faster because the onset of puberty starts earlier and the hormones released throughout the body. The hormones do affect behavior and that is why girls tend to be more organized and nurturing. I had some time yesterday at work to look up data, and it is very interesting. I have not read all the stuff, but from glancing over the material, women's brains and men's brains are different. Different portions of the brain control different aspects of behavior. Those areas vary in size and proportion to total brain size between males and females. Since puberty starts earlier for females than males, their brains actually increase in size rapidly faster and their brains may be larger than male brains at this point in life. Over time, male's brain size do catch up and then exceed females' brains by 8-12% BSA has come up with the "LINKED TROOPS" Model which allows the girls troop to share committee, equipment, meeting space and time, camp outs, and ASMs, If two troops are meeting at the same time, share the same leaders, and do activities at the same time and place, is it really 2 troops, or 1 troop? On paper it may be separate, reality says it's coed. And do not think this won't happen. Some packs, like the one I'm working with, have combined the girls' den with the boys' den for meetings. It is really a coed den. And at the town hall meeting I attended, I told my key three exactly what Scouters in my area told me, the girls' troops would be paper troops, they would be doing everything with the boys's troop. And many in my town hall agreed with that sentiment

Needle and thread are your friend!

Don't know how I missed that. Looks like the DEN METHODS is the future of Scouting.

Oh I agree, the troop is not using the patrol method properly. As you can read from my older posts elsewhere, I've been fighting that battle for several years. Troop is very much adult driven. Pack hasn't done a great job transitioning their Webelos to Boy Scouts, we now have a bunch of parents who see Boy Scouts as a continuation of Cub Scouts. And it's not just new parents either. SM and several ASMs see no problem with it, especially since they view national's push for Family Scouting as an endorsement of the continuation of Cubs. Give me a bit.

Sadly some see Family Camping as a change to the program. My troop is embracing the concept of every camp out is a family one, and it is slowly killing the program. And from what I am reading, this is not a local area thing either. But sometimes BSA changes things that do indeed affect the program. While my troop is not as Patrol Method as I would like it to be, there are several in the area that are. One of them has the has the patrols doing day long activities without any adults present. Many of those involve service work with area non-profits, i.e. Knights of Columbus Tootsie Roll Campaign for Special Olympics and Salvation Army bell ringing come immediately to mind. Now that BSA has made a substantial change to its YP rules, I guess that A) the troop will no longer be participating in those activities since it doesn't have the adult manpower to supervise and B) a bunch of friends will be getting together now to perform that service work, so the BSA will get no recognition for their community service. Oh and I almost forgot, that troop will no longer be able to work with the Red Cross setting up, manning, and tearing down shelters since it's usually one over 21 adult and one of the 18-20 Scouters. Not trying to be negative, and realize change is inevitable. But some changes BSA has made of late are slowly killing the program in my neck of the woods.

Considering that none of the ceremonies at NOAC had Arrowman in Native American regalia, and I believe the national chief and vice-chief didn't wear their bonnets either, would be one sign of things to come. The old men on the National OA committee are not listening to the youth. Heck if memory serves, of the 66 volunteer and professional members on the committee, only 3 members of the committee are youth: the National Chief, National Vice Chief, and one other. Event he region chiefs are not on the committee. Do you want current data, or data from something I did a few years back? If it's current data, I am going to need a lot more time to do the research. If it is a paper I did in Grad School, give me some time to find it.

Correct, I do not the new rule. That's because it does away with EVERYTHING that the BSA had been trying to teach for 108 years. If adults MUST be there, it is not the Patrol Method. Requiring adults is Webelos 3.

While it can be taught, it can no longer be implemented. The true Patrol Method, allowing a patrol to do thing on their own without adults present, is no more. Instead we have the Den Method.

With all due respect, the last vestiges of the Patrol Method died 10-1-18 when patrols can no longer do day activities without 2 registered adults over 21 being present.

CORRECTION: 94% were against instapalms, 18% Against, 76% strongly against. Sorry for the mistake.

Actually the #1 reason is it is a done deal. No way they can change it now. Besides there is enough evidence to point out that the decision was made even before the town hall meetings came out. Another thing is National may have learned from the "InstaPalm" decision: don't release the poll results if it contradicts what you plan to do anyway. 94% were either against (18%) or strongly against (78%) doing away with tenure requirements for palms.

I was always taught it is about the boys, not parents, sisters, siblings or families. In my neck of the woods the majority of boys do not want girls in Scouting, either in a separate troop or as a "linked troop." One adults who is all for girls in Scouting, and wants it coed, even admitted her own son is against girls in Scouting. If this was such a popular, in demand decision, why hasn't national released the MEMBERSHIP ( emphasis) survey results on the topic? Heck why don't they release all of the results from their surveys?

The theory of staring a separate girls' troop is great. The reality is that it won't happen. The troop will become coed. As more and more adults use to a coed Cub Scout program move into the troop, they will see no problem with being a "linked troop," which is national's codeword for coed. They will start promoting the concept, and their numbers grow and/or they get into key positions to implement the change, they will. The camel's nose is already under the tent flap.

I agree with poor choice of words for allowing girls into all programs. Regarding Cub Scouts, I think the biggest problem is that packs are not implementing the Webelos years properly. Instead of getting the parents to slowly back away and let the Webelos do things on their own, they are continuing to treat the Webelos as Cub Scouts. Webelos only activities are now turning into famly events, and that expectation continues into Boy Scouts. Regarding the troop situation, I think my oldest's breaking point will be reached. As you know, the CO decided to start a separate girls only troop. Several Scouters in the current troop will alos be involved with the girls troop. The comment that the girls' troop will be going to summer camp with the boys was made in a public forum and oldest saw it. If the girls' troop will be in a separate campsite, he won't have a problem. If we are sharing a campsite, then he will transfer. He's going to ask for clarification on that comment because he is not happy about it.

While I know understand the YPT concerns, IMHO there was not a lot of thought into making it. My troop has a closed facebook page. Reason for that is one non-custodial parent with a restraining order showed up at an event with the intentions of picking up his sons and taking them with them. Mom heard and the boys never showed up to prevent an incident. We have PLC members communicating via private chat to insure things are going to get done. Scouters use PM to go over stuff and get things done. Stuff that doesn't need to be posted publicly. Best example of things that do not need to be posted publicly happened this week with the pack. Webelos are invited to camporee with the troop. WDLs, CM, and SM are handling things. the Tiger DL, whose grandson is a Webelos 2, decides to post the camporee flyer on the pack's facebook page, essentially inviting all the Cub Scouts to camporee. A "discussion" then ensues. That "discussion" could have been done privately, and prevented some embarrassment and frustration.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) Scout needing Totin Chip needs to ask his Patrol Leader (PL) as ever troop does things differently. Some will allow PLs to work with their members and sign off. Some troops only allow older Scouts to sign off. And some only want adults to sign off on stuff.

UPDATE: Good news, bad news. The Cubmaster found a female registered DL to camp with the female Webelos. We will be meeting the new YP double standards. That's the good news. Bad news it's one of the helicopter moms with the troop. This was the mom who showed up last year to camporee to camp with her Lion Cub Scout. This was because the DE decided to have a fishing derby at the same time as camporee. Sadly the Lion Cub was not closely supervised and did cause some problems. This DL is also asssuming all camp outs with the troop to be family camp outs, and doesn't see why it's a problem that her 12 year old son is sneaking out of his tent to sleep with dad and/or entire family. So the female Webelos is good to go. On another note, I now realize that more adults affiliated with the troop want the Family Scouting model like Cub Scouts than want a true Scouting program based upon the Patrol Method. SM being OK with a Tiger Cub camping with the troop during camporee as well as adults planning a troop family camp out without input of the PLC made me realize this last nite. I am tired of trying to get the troop back on course, and I do not see any hope of change at this point. I am resigned to go with the flow until either A) my sons get tired of the situation and transfer or B) they earn Eagle and leave.

I'll let you in on a little secret about National Supply: BUNCH OF FOLKS HAVE LITTLE TO NO EXPERIENCE IN THE PROGRAM, THEY ARE JUST WARM BODIES WHO ANSWERED AN AD FOR A POSITION. (emphasis, not shouting) I worked in national supply for a while and can tell you that out of all the folks in my store, only 2 had program experience: myself and the PT guy I recruited to work with me in the pilot program. Neither my manager, assistant manager, 2 FT coworkers, and 3 PT coworkers I worked with during my tenure had any actual experience in the program. I cannot tell you how many times I had to politely correct my bosses and coworkers. I cannot tell you how many times I got lectured by my bosses when I was providing information to new folks and not trying to make the sale. Thankfully that stopped when one customer I talked to that left without a sale came back a few hours later with his son and then spent about 45 minutes completely outfitting his son with pack, sleeping bag, and other items.

Doesn't have to be a female DL, other wise she would not be allowed to join since I am now the WDL. And the way we meet, the entire pack at one time, we got it covered. Since she is the only Webelos, and it is not recommended that she be placed with Lions and Tigers, the only other girls in the pack, we are doing what everyone else is doing: having a coed den in reality instead of makign her Lone Scout.

Guys won't come out and say it publicly, at least I am not hearing anything, but they are afraid of this. When polled, the #MeTo movement was mentioned in the anonymous online poll we took. One Scout described a situation occurring similar to the OP's link. And I can understand. My brother was accused of molesting my nieces by his ex-wife to get custody. Thankfully he was able to prove innocence, but it nearly destroyed him. Even though he had joint custody, whenever he had the kids, he stayed at my mom's house with them.

Yes I did read the FAQs. And I am pointing out how it is a double standard that is insulting to male volunteers. And as Shortridge pointed out, the issue of her camping with her father was never addressed. I though the entire purpose of allowing girls was to be "Family Friendly." If a girl cannot camp with ther dad, doesn't seem to be Family Friendly to me.

Richard, I am pointing out the double standard in the rules, i.e. how the new rules say it is ok for two females to take a bunch of male Webelos camping, but not two male leaders with a bunch of female Webelos. Also pointing out how parents no longer count towards 2 deep. Also pointing out how even if her father goes with her and is her buddy, she still cannot go because of no female Scouters. SHE WILL BE CAMPING WITH HER DAD! (emphasis) He's was pumped up about camporee when I talked to them about it. All, Yes I will shortly scrambling like crazy to find a female Scouter, and am enlisting the CM's help in the matter. In fact may be calling a friend of mine from another district to see if she could help. In addition to having ticked off Scouts and Scouters, we would lose 1/2 the Scouts in the troop and several Scouters. The Scouts themselves brought up this exact situation, canceling a trip due to lack of female Scouters, when discussing becoming "linked troops." They would transfer or quit altogether. Several of those Scouts have parents involved as Scouters. I know I go where my sons go, and believe many others would follow their sons. So cancelling is not an option.

CO is working on the female troop, but is still looking for female Scouters. Two of the current Scouters are the ones who are pushing it since the troop will not be "linked," but they are male. As for her mom registering, I do not know the family situation.She just joined Monday night, and dad was the one who brought her. As for other packs, as far as I know she is the only female Webelos in the district. My son's pack has no female Webelos, and the other pack accepting girls does not have female Webelos. The rest of the packs are not accepting girls at this time.