Eagle94-A1

Does anyone know when they took out the "more than 30 minutes from help" rule? I remember when WFA first came out, that requirement was in place as well. I know a few units complained because that 30 minute rule affected their troop meetings.

Never a SM, but long time Scouter. You will definitely need support from your spouse on this. I have had friends get divorced over Scouting, and almost was divorced due to Scouting, albeit as a professional. Everyone has given great advice. Ditto getting your ASMs involved and taking responsibility. You cannot do everything, and need to work with them and trust them.

I hated swimming laps too back in the day. I did it as a 19 year old ASM, and did Approach Breaststroke the entire time except the last lap. That way I could keep an eye on my Scouts doing it with me and motivate them. Drove the lifeguards nuts because I was yapping the entire time. Still remember making a parody of 500 Miles called 500 Yards

WELCOME TO DA FORUMS!

Some has already mentioned ALPS Mountaineering. They still make a few external frame packs. My two older hoodlums and wife have externals they got from thrift stores or yard sales. The one I got for the wife was the one I dreamed of getting as a Scout back in the day: Coleman Peak 1 with Ramflex frame. I have a medium A.L.I.C.E. that I started backpacking with and have two 50 milers with. Pack is still usable, and I modified the A.L.I.C.E. frame by using MOLLE 2 belt and straps on her. Joke in the troop growing up was : government surplus. if it's designed to survive combat, it may survive Boy Scouts. I have since upgraded to a large A.L.I.C.E. pack, using the medium as a day pack. But I also have an internal frame pack. I used it a lot more when I played pack mule at cub camp outs. Also use it for backpacking because it is significantly lighter than A.L.I.C.E. Even trying some interesting mods, i.e. using wife's Ramflex frame instead of aluminum A.L.I.C.E. frame, the internal is lighter.

Velcro is your friend. And according to a National Training Newsletter, the tan and green and red an tan trained strips are now interchangeable.

NRA and US Archery are the two main organizations that BSA teamed up with to create the shooting sports program. I believe the National Muzzle Loading Association also teamed up with BSA for blackpowder operations.

One thing I'm trying to think about, when did the outrageous promotions and beading ceremonies start? While the attitudes were around pre- WB21C, i don't remember the beading ceremonies, taking over of campfires, etc until after WB21C came out.

To add, ANYTHING WRITTEN BY WILLIAM "GREEN BAR BILL" HILLCOURT (emphasis). Hillcourt took B-P's Patrol Method, and improved upon it with BP's, and after his death Lady BP's, blessing. The bulk of his writings were published from circa 1929 -1972 when the "Improved Scouting Program came out. It was a disaster. Hillcourt came out of retirement to write another edition of the BSA Handbook in 1979. He also wrote numerous articles for BOYS' LIFE MAGAZINE where he got the sobriquet "Green Bar Bill" Also Eagle dad is spot on with going to Traditional Patrols, aka Mixed Aged Patrols. They were the norm from 1910 - 1989, and many troops still use them because they work.

Not all WBers are horrible. I've worked with many great ones over the years. My SM growing up was WBer. I do not know if he changed how the troop ran as a result of WB or not, but I can count on one hand how many troops I've been in or have interacted with over the years, that compare to my troop under his mentorship. One of my mentors as a 20 year old ASM was a 4 beader on the council level. "Sweet Old Bill" was one who guided and mentored. He listened to folks, why explained things needed to be done, and got it done. But most importantly, he listened to youth and adult alike, whether you had beads or not. And if there was a better way than the way he suggested, he did it the better way with no shame or embarrassment. It was done for the Scouts, and that is what mattered most to him. But to many WBers have negative attitudes towards non WBers. They do not value input because we don't have the beads. They do not value years of experience and training that some volunteers have because they don't wear beads. I've encountered that attitude in the 5 councils I've been in. I've had friends who have encountered that attitude. Many people on this site have encountered it. Sadly it is not a rare occurrence. And then their are the shenanigans and over the top beading ceremonies. Some of the shenanigans WBers do under current YPT guidelines IS hazing.While I may personally disagree with some of the things national now considers "hazing," i.e. cutting corner on the WHITTLING CHIP ( but not the Totin Chip), singing for lost items, some practical jokes, etc. This is done regularly at WB. I remember at one camporee with a WB reunion, one patrol stole another patrol's flag, and making them sing to get it back. I'm sorry, but we need to set the example even if we do not like the policy. Same camporee had an overly long beading ceremony many units started leaving before it was finished, including mine. We left at the 25 minute mark The beading ceremony lasted longer than the OA Call Out Ceremony.

I agree completely. That is the situation I am in. When I taught SM specific and IOLs, I went after the best folks I could to help with the courses. I even had youth staff who i know had the KSAs to do the job to show what a Scout is capable of doing if you "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" And I have folks I see today who are only paying lip service to the patrol method. One troop was nearly annihilated when one of them took over. he told me that "BSA needed to change with the times." Of the 3 NYLT grads he had when he took over as SM, 1 stayed registered to remain in the OA, but never did another thing again with the troop, and 2 transfered to a troop that is a PM troop. Regarding Adults reminiscing about troops of their youth, as I see more and more troops, I realized how lucky I was to have Joe S. as my SM growing up. We were a Youth Led troop. We made mistakes. We had out problems. We were by no means perfect. But we were youth led. SM, and CC for that matter, not only advised and mentored us, but more importantly kept well meaning adults from interfering and ruining the program.

Once upon a time you, WB was two separate courses, one for Cub Scout Trainers, the other for Boy Scouters. And very briefly there was a 3rd course for Explorer Advisers. I do not know the requirements for the Cub Scout Trainer WB course, but the Boy Scout version required completion of all basic training, a minimum of 2 years tenure in a Boy Scout volunteer position (I am told it could be waived only if you aged out as a youth at 18, so an 18 or 19 year old could do it) and be invited. The folks taking the course were experienced Scouters, and the course was to improve themselves and learn and expand their knowledge to bring back and help train their youth to run things. I admit, I am not a WBer. But I went through BA22, and staffed JLTC, and both are based on WB. In fact one of my JLTC staffers took WB 3 months after staffing JLTC. I was unable to take that course and told him I planned on taking the next one. He told me, "Don't waste your time. Everything we taught at JLT is taught and WB. Only difference between the two courses is the ticket." When WB21C came out, they combined to the courses and tried to make it "one size fits all." A lot of important program specific material has been left out that is really needed. And I have seen many folks take WB as Cub Scout leaders, and think they know it all when they move up to Boy Scouts. Powderhorn was originally designed for Venturing as a way for Venturign advisers to learn hor to help their crews plan and execute HA activities. I do not believe it covers a lot of advanced skills . except whatever type of mini HA activity is planned.

Sadly this happens already with some folks. I've encountered folks whose attitude is "If you don't wear beads, you don't know squat." And I agree is does indeed cause drama and problems we don't need. I've seen some extremely experienced and knowledgeable Scouters get frustrated with the attitude and either quit Scouting all together, or just refocus their energy on the unit. Me personally, I get a kick out of using all the WB/NYLT techniques, methods, and language, and getting asked what critter I am. I love the look on folks' faces when I proudly jump into song, "I'm a Cocky Curlew of the Brownsea Camp...." Going over the Patrol Method in online training is not enough. I've seen too many ignore it, misunderstand it, or think it's antiquated and BSA needs to change with he times. Even in the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals Training where you were assigned to a patrol the first full day of class, were part of the same patrol during the second Model Meeting class, expected to have a patrol meeting, then operated as a patrol during the final 3 day weekend class was not enough for some. The Adults in the unit really need to model it, and mentor it. Also the Patrol Method needs to be STRICTLY ENFORCED (emphasis), something that has not been happening in the troop I am in of late. And it's not being enforced under the guise of being "family friendly" as the SM told me. EDITED: That's the irony. He wants to be family friendly, but does not see how doing so is slowly destroying the patrol method and thus the troop.

Communicable diseases are a major threat for camps. One sick camper could possibly shut down an entire camp, and worse. One camp I worked at had a GI bug going around. Over 150 campers ended up in the health lodge at some point that week, and ALL of the camp staff were in the health lodge at some point in a 10 day period. Health department came in to inspect the camp a second time, with the possibility of shutting the camp down. People believed it was either the trading post or dining hall causing the problem. No problems there. Review of the health records showed that it came from one particular troop. Camp thankfully remained open. Fast forward 6 months and talking to my cousin about the issue at camp since her son's troop was there that week. She was saying how awful the GI bug was and how she hated sending her son to camp sick. But since she paid for camp he had to go. 🤬

Yes trying to be positive lately has been hard. One positive is 2 of the 3 patrols know exactly what they have and don't have. So they won't embarass themselves in front of the Webelos next week. Another positive that my sons pointed out is "we know exactly which tents to get that don't have any problems."

She has been to two information sessions the troop has held, plus three family sessions over the past year do to issues that have arisen. Comments overheard from her and hubby is that they don't care, if son is having a problem, they will take care of it. Husband is a registered MC who has been trained. Do not know if she took Boy Scout training as she is not registered with the troop. As far as coaching, yes she and her husband have been coached and counseled multiple times by several ASMs as well as by the SM. Twice she has threatened to transfer to a neighboring troop. When we called her threat, she stays, and calms down for a bit, and then resumes. She has been invited multiple times to stay with us. She will be with the other adults and then wonders off to her son. Except for the last camp out. her son kept coming to her in the adult area. Also she is very distant and standoffish. Sadly the only 2 female committee members the troop has no longer camp due to health issues. We have talked, coached and counseled. Myself and another ASM will not longer deal.

Some of you have read about the litany of challenges I've been facing with troop I'm involved with. Some I am going to try and "Knock it off with them negative waves." and focus on the #1 and #2 reasons I am involved with the troop, my sons, and something positive. Oldest son spoke with his PL at the meeting about taking to time to check on tents and patrol boxes. PL said go for it. When middle son found out, he decided that would be a good thing to do as well. Since he couldn't ask his PL, he assumed it would be OK since he is APL. They found issues with the brand new, only been on 1 troop camp out and borrowed for a family camp out( that turned into a troop camp out after the families went whitewater rafting). BUT they took responsibility for making sure their patrols have what they need for the upcoming camp out. That is what I want my sons to get out of Scouting, more than even earning Eagle: seek and take responsibility to serve others. As for youngest, he finished up everything for his Parvuli Dei religious award. All he needs now is his DL and CM's signatures, and off the application goes. I needed this today.

I always sang " Try a cookie,. buy a cookie get one for free."

Greater Alabama Council got caught and it was major. Sadly their Scout Executive was allowed to retire. And I've seen it happen elsewhere. It really destroyed BSA image in my neckof the woods as it was happening here too. There is an incredible amount of pressure increase membership, and some professionals will do anything to make their goals. One of the reasons I left the profession: I do not play that game. If the girl was automatically registered without filling out an application or paying, I would be VERY concerned.

With all due respect @Chadamus, I stated BSA is going coed and I stand by that statement. What else do you call a boys den and a girls den that have "joint meetings" but a coed den? What else are "Linked Troops" that share everything: committee, equipment, meeting times and locations, activities,, camp outs, and assistant Scoutmasters, but a coed troop? Officially BSA may not be fully coed, but in reality Cub Scouts is, and Scouts BSA will be.

i do not think outdoor focused GSUSA troops are common at all. Otherwise BSA would not have gone coed.

In my lodge growing up, "A clean sash is a sign of a lazy Arrowman." Kinda got in trouble for saying that when I told an individual who beligerently questioned my muddied, wet appearance at an Ordeal while he was in a spotless uniform and looked like brand new sash. He was the council president.

Whomever told her that was grossly misinformed. USA Archery Certifications are valid with the BSA. I know the 2015 Shooting Sports Guide specifically mentions them, and as far back as at least 2010 that was the case.

Standard searches I do for my medical and hospital staff goes back 5 years, although on occasion I will search for articles older if requested and/or the older article is the "gold standard" that current research compares to. So how far back do you want me to go? Also how technical do you want it? Some of the articles I have pulled up have given me a headache trying to understand them. And in all honesty some of the articles may be only understood by a neurologist or neurosurgeon. Right now I am looking at comparing male and female adolescents and their behaviors and development using research within the past 5 years. Do I need to modify this any?

Not only do I have problems with the 6 year old being there, but the mother does not really care a fig about the Patrol Method. Regarding the 6 year old, he is left unsupervised, interferes with the patrol when stuff needs to get done, and when corrected by the PL or APL, yells "NO!" and continues doing stuff until a Scouter corrects him and tells him he needs to get back with his parents. As mentioned the mom does not get the patrol method, despite being talked to about it multiple times. This is the mom who sees no problem with her son leaving the patrol campsite and hanging out with her and the family. This mom has no problem cooking food that her son will eat, and then allowing him to eat with his family.The mom doesn't see a problem with allowing her 12 year old son to sneak into the family tent on troop camp outs. This is the mom who got her husband and son to leave summer camp and sleep in a hotel one night, only having the husband call AFTER he was at the hotel. They knew reception at the camp is spotty, and it was sheer luck that one of the other adults got the text message stating dad and Scout were at the hotel and would be back in the morning. From my perspective, the mom doesn't understand Scouting, and only wants her son to be an Eagle. She may be an enthusiastic CUB SCOUT leader, be she is problem as a BOY SCOUT, soon to be SCOUTS BSA, Scouter.