Eagle94-A1

I am going to admit that my opinion will be biased. TELL THE PARENTS NOT TO DO THIS AGAIN AND IF THEY DO THEY WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE. (caps for emphasis, not shouting.) And if they continue, follow through with asking them to leave. As many of you know, I just transferred troops because of parents interfering with the patrols, and camp outs turning into Cub family camping. It started out as an attempt to ease the Scouts and parents into Boy Scouting, but limits were not enforced and it got worse. Morale in the troop is at the lowest I've ever seen it. Since I've left, I am finding out about more challenges from the Scouts than the ones they told me about.

Well tonight is the last meeting with the old troop. I am going through a bunch of emotions. I know it's best for my sons, but I still feel bad as I feel I am abandoning my Scouts and friends. I talking to some about why I am leaving, I get the feeling there is a lot of unrest beneath the surface. I had a feeling about 1/3 would eventually transfer, but I have a feeling it may be higher if things do not change ASAP. I am told my leaving is causing the core leadership to reevaluate the entire situation, and I hope change does happen. I do not wan to see the troop die.

At least you didn't threaten to call Child Protective Services. :) Seriously, we had an incident at a summer camp I worked at where the SM wanted to send the kid home, and the parents refused to pick him up as they were on a second honeymoon at Disney. Camp director then got involved. He informed the the parents they needed to pick up their son, and they refused. "We paid for summer camp, he's staying at summer camp" or words to that affect. That's when the CD gave them a choice: pick up their son by a certain time (driving time from Disney + 60 minutes) or he would report that they have a minor who had been abandoned by his parents. They made it in time. Seriously, there are some parents who do not care what the troop wants or does.If you don't nip it in the bud now, it will get worse. Trust me on that one.;)

TIMELY! I just found out a respected Scouter at the unit and district level had their membership revoked because they disagreed with how the council was handling a YP issue. They called the national hotline to discuss the matter. SE found out and revoked their membership. I have a feeling the SE will have a huge amount of egg on their face when everything settles.

I'm glad Parkman's method works for his unit. We did something similar, and it has not worked out. That's one reason why we are transferring. What's ironic is stuff I suggested in the past to help deal with the situation is now being considered. The new adults in question have ignored all those who have been trying to help them and their sons, including the SM. My idea of Webelos -to-Scout Transition is multiyear process that really picks up as Webelos. It involves the use of Den Chiefs, Order of the Arrow ( at least until Dec. 31st. OA ceremony team refuses to do the new national ceremonies, with or without regalia), and visiting the "Common Areas" of the Boy Scout Camporee and Cub Scout Family Campout." As Webelos it really picks up. Working on Scouting Adventure as Webelos 1s to get them and their parents use to the Patrol Method and what is expected of them. Promoting camping with the troop, especially since NONE of my Webelos have ever camped before (yes the returning Webelos have NEVER camped in their 3 previous years, despite 2 camp outs a year the Pack does). Webeloree, a competition just like Camporee, is a major even in the district, and now council. it's always good fun, and prepares them for Boy Scouts very well, IF THE PARENTS GET OUT OF THE WAY AND LETS THEM DO STUFF ON THEIR OWN. (emphasis)

Yes I think I may be the catalyst. SM is not happy I am leaving, as well as 2 ASMs. Once our fundraiser is done, there will be a maor talk witrh the adults.

One of the things my troop growing up did was restrict new Scouters, except the 18-20 year olds, to committee positions for a minimum of a year, and they had to complete training. After a few months supporting the troop, they could go camping with us. We had CCs who rode herd on the adults, letting the SM focus on the SPL and Scouts. That was a comment I made to the SM today. Just wish the Scout tied a bowline for the rescue Book is even better.

A few comments. 1) had an 1:30 chat with the SM over lunch. It went well, all things considered. He understands why we are leaving, and doesn't have a problem with it. He is also going to sit down and have a chat with the core leadership group before having a "come to Jesus Meeting" with some families. 2) Please keep up the conversation on Webelos to Scout Transition, and if this needs it's own thread, I am OK with it. Part of our conversation was this exact topic: Webelos to Scout Transition and Parents. The pack is not doing a good job, one of the reasons I went back to DL, and we talked about ways to improve the situation. Both are concerned about the Webelos crossing over this year as they have done NOTHING with the troop: have not visited yet, have not camped with us, not a thing. Worried how they will transition. And now he needs to help find a DL for the Webelos 1s. Good thing is their Bear DL is a camping fiend. Lots of expereince in the Patrol method, and cannot wait for his son to be a scout.

Remember Maison Blanche quite well. My brother worked there, and I got my Cub Scout uniform from there too. Thank you for letting me know about that fireball of energy going home. I can't believe it. She was an outstanding Scouter, who will be deeply missed.

Agree 100% Especially since every troop is different. One troop might not suit what a Scout is looking for. I know the troop I first joined has some issues. I eventually left and moved to the troop I aged out of and volunteered first with until I left for my first post-college job. I've found most Scouters are willing to help a Scout pick the right troop. Heck one troop we planned to visit said they were full and pointed to the troop we are joining to visit. But there are Scouters out there who are possessive, and view any outside recruiting of "their pack" as poaching and unScoutlike. The Scouters and I in the troop I am currently with have been accused of being poachers. I talked about working with Webelos with the SM for several reasons. One was the high attrition rate. The Webelos that join are not staying. Last year, only 33% of those crossing over are here today. Year before that is a little better, 55%, but that is the group with parents wanting their sons to earn Eagle and have a continuation of Cub Scouts. No matter how many times you talk to them, no matter what training they have taken, they are doing their own thing. In the pack I am a DL for, I've found the Webelos are still being treated like Cub Scouts, and then the Scouts and parents move up and are totally unprepared for the changes.I wanted to begin the transition process NOW in an attempt to lower attrition. Another reason was that I wanted to train these Webelos so that they would be able to jump right in and do anything needed within their patrols. Folks here know I am not a fan of NSPs as I had issues with them over the years. Only once did I see a possibility of a Webelos den crossing over intact as a NSP and being able to meet the challenges. Sadly, that patrol split and joined 2 different troops. Those Scouts, and their parents, are causing no problems with either troop. I was hoping to recreate that den.

While I am a big proponent of visiting multiple troops, I was not planning to organize multiple visits, but encourage individuals to visit. A little history behind the Webelos and two Troops. Back in the day, one of the pack's Webelos DLs was also an ASM with the same troop I am soon to join. Webelos started joining the troop I am about to join, and not the troop I'm leaving. In a few years, the troop died, and it was blamed on the DL. 2 adults are still involved with the troop from then, and it is a very sore point with them. When we lost an entire den to the troop, those 2 leaders were furious. It didn't matter that several Webelos were in that CO's pack when it folded and they joined us,and 2 Webelos had brothers in that troop. The 2 adults concern was a repeat of what happened. Understandable.

Never heard of the wheel either. And doing a quick looksee on Google, I found one syllabus with some inaccutate info on it. BSA does not have any restrictions on size and type of knives. Local laws may say otherwise. I've already carried my 13 and 1/4" Kukri to a camporee.

I reread, and needed to edit it. I do not blame the SM. heck I sympathize with him. I blame the parents that keep interfering. No, just worried about losing a friendship. Happened once when I didn't go to one troop. With all the blood sweat, tears, and treasure We have invested, both figuratively and literally, I owe him a face to face. And thank you for wishing well.

Now is the part of the transfer I am dreading, why we are leaving and having folks follow us over. As I mentioned, word is out, and I already had one Scout call my oldest about the matter. he plans on transferring. And I can see 2 to 3 others doing the same. Had the SM message me last nite about what could the troop do to keep us. This was after my boys visited the troop. The positivity and happiness was a 180 turnaround of late. So I told the SM it is too late. But I want to meet with him, and go into specifics without having to worry about eavesdroppers or dealing with the challenging people causing the issues. I've had enough of them. But the hard part will be conveying that it wasn't all the SM's fault. It wasn't. The "family friendly" policy is something he inherited, it just was not being used like it is now. And that is why my kids have been frustrated. And when parents won't listen to the SM, let alone his existing ASMs, it is his fault. Combined with not having an active CC, he is trying to keep the troop together by himself. I know he's getting frustrated.

EXCELLENT! My boys have also been frustrated with their troop, and are switching. Monday will be their last with the current troop. Tuesday they are turning in the transfer paperwork to the new troop.

Well the boys and I came back from visiting the troop. Meeting was atypical, only uniforms worn were by my sons and the adults. It was their annual Halloween party with a costume contest. Orsin Krennic won best costume. Overall it went very well. My guys were a little nervous and standoffish at first, but once the food was served, it went well. They had a good time. The word is out, and one of the folks I thought would transferred called to find out and said he's thinking of it.

Is the SE’s name Jack Crawford by any chance? Yes, I’ve encountered a SE and DFS who had a long time volunteer’s membership permanently revoked. I do not know all the details, but apparently the volunteer found out the council did not have insurance for an event. Accident happened, and there was no coverage. Because the accident was a violation of G2SS, riding in back of truck, volunteer was removed when he made a stink of not having insurance for the event.

1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS CODY AND SHINGOBEEK! (And yes, I'm yelling my welcome at the topof my lungs! ) 2) Regarding basic training, yes it's a hoop we who have been through the program needs to jump through. After coming up through the program, and going through Brownsea 22, my period's NYLT, I only learned one new thing: the paperwork side of Scouting. How a troop operates, camping, etc was all old hat. BUT one benefit was meeting people allover my council.That was a very big benefit as I had more resources I could talk to. 3) CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!! ( caps for emphasis) I learned more about being a Scouter sitting around campfires, drinking coffee, hot cocoa, or bug juice, and listening to the older Scouters than I did in all my adult training combined. I still come to the virtual campfire to vent and get ideas. As well as help others. 4) Regarding WB, Part of me regrets not doing WB when I was in college. there were times and locations where the attitude was " if you don't wear beads, you don't know squat." Kinda like how some Scouters may still view you as a kid. frustrating is an understatement. But another part of me is glad I did not do WB. I staffed JLTC, the immediate predecessor to NYLT, and it was "Wood Badge Lite:" only differnce was the Scouts did not have to do a ticket. One of my fellow staffers commented WB was a waste of time for him since everything we covered in JLTC was covered in WB. Good luck

As Julius Caesar said, "Alea iacta est." The die is cast. Informed the SM next week is our last one with the troop to finish things up. Also told the CM I will be stepping down as Webelos DL. I don't feel comfortable being the WDL for this pack anymore since the entire purpose was not only to fill a position, but promote the troop and prepare them to join it. I do not want a repeat of being blamed for stealing another troop's Webelos. SM got the full story. CM got the one for public consumption, Monday nites are getting crazy for us. That is true. but it isn't everything as I've posted here.

Because the CO views Scouting as an outreach ministry, they are heavily subsidized by the church. But in order to insure the troop has enough resources, they limit the number to 30, not 36 as I mistakenly stated. They are currently at 32, but since 2 current Scouts will age out shortly, the CO said OK to the 2 extra Scouts. Good question. I don't know. I know when I first brought up my concerns, he said he wanted the troop to be family friendly. I know when it was just him and the late SM, troop could only camp when he was off. And if he had custody, the kids had to come to. Once we got more adults to support the troop, that situation lessened to about once a year.

Thank you all for the support . This has been a tough decision. Just found out one troop is not accepting anyone currently. They are over their limit, but that is because two of their Eagles will age out in the very near future and turn into ASMs. Once they age out, they will become ASMs. IMHO, one of the signs of a good troop is their ability to keep Eagles active to their 18th birthday, and possibly beyond.

Talked to the two older ones with the wife. They see it getting worse, and while they don't want to leave their friends, understand why we want them to transfer to a different troop. One of the nice things about wife being RSO this weekend, she saw all the troops in action. She's in agreement with the two troops I would like to see them in. One may not have any opening as their CO limits them to 36 max. That's her favorite. One troop reminds me of the troop I grew up in, and I hope they pick that one. Plus I know a bunch of their Scouts from when I worked CSDC. I admit, I can't remember all their names, but they all came up to me and said "Hey Mr. Eagle94-a1" and told me how they have been doing this past weekend. Talking to that troop's SM and ASMs this weekend, I found out they are backpacking the section of the AT we were suppose to go on. They invited us to tag along with them. Sadly we have another commitment that weekend. Again I really hope they pick that troop. But it's their choice. And either choice will be better than what we are in now. I just hope one doesn't pick one troop and the other picks the second. Goal for me would be registered as an MC to learn their troop's culture, and "deprogram" any bad habits I picked up. Then move back to ASM. As for taking along others, I do not want to kill the troop. But I do have a feeling we will have at least 3, possibly 5, others moving with us if we leave. And that's 1 ASM and up to 2 MCs leaving as well. I hope with that many leaving, SM and MC get together and fix the troop. I do not want to destroy the troop. I spent 5 years working and building up the troop. I promised the late SM that I would see that the troop would not fold again. But these parents are slowly taking me and the Scouts down. And this year's Webelos 2 parents seem just like the last batch.

Where to begin. As many of you may know, my troop is "family friendly" in that parents and siblings are invited to attend any and all camp outs. Might seem OK, but the interference they are causing is growing. Several times now I' been told by PLs and SPLs that they are trying to get things done, and the parents either contradict what the PLs or SPL is trying to do, or worse, take completely over. This stemmed over to the adult side of things. They have tended to ignore ASMs and do their own thing. This weekend, they ignored the SM and caused so much trouble that the SM was close to cutting off his patch and giving it to them. Not only did it affect the troop, it also affected the Webelos who were invited to camp with us. Sadly the negative and "my way or the highway" attitude of these parents has influenced the Webelos parents and I feel there is no more hope for the troop. Long story short, we did not get our normal campsite for this past weekend. Two families went a day early to set up their tents and cooking pavilions. There was a lot of back and forth and one fo the familiies said that if they have to take down their tent, they will go home. My personal thoughts were 'Well, BYE." For whatever reason, the SM let them stay. where they were at. We informed the Webelos DL what time we were meeting and where we would be camping. Long story short, the den showed up at the camp by themselves, did not check in, and proceeded to set up camp with the 2 families instead of the troop. I ran into them try to tell them they were in the wrong campsite, and was told they didn't care, they were staying where they were at with the 2 families. I left. As you can imagine, everything that was planned by the troop to work with the Webelos and begin integrating them into the troop before they Cross Over in Decemebr went down the toilet. They didn't camp with them. They didn't do any cooking or KP with them, and they barely ate with them. They went into town to buy burgers for lunch, and instead of eating with the troop today were packing up to leave camp ASAP. I've been talking on and off about the problem with the boys and the wife separately. Wife saw what was going on first hand this weekend as she was an RSO for an event. She's fed up more than I am about the situation. We are having a family meeting to discuss moving to another troop.

OH BOTHER! I can't believe I forgot about the Wayback Machine. I spent 30-45 minutes looking for the link, found it, and when it didn't work, forgot about it.Going to review my search history when I get home Sunday.

Yes, national had such a rule circa 2010 or thereabouts Unfortunately the link I fond for it is an Error 404 ( Not Found). I remember it was poorly worded, created a lot of confusion, caused issues with 7 units in my district, and I nearly cancelled CSDC because of it. 7 units are so far out in the boonies, it takes approximately 45 minutes to get to a hospital. Ditto the local Scout camp holding CSDC. I remember a clarification or rewording coming out that medical care = ambulance, not necessarily a hospital. And I'm not a member of the GSUSA, so I was not referencing their rules.