Eagle94-A1

As you know, I left a troop because two sets of parent caused so many problems interfering that my sons and I had it. We left and are much happier with the troop we are with. But we still have friends with that troop, and I do have Scouts still with them, so I am still in communication with them. Plus I am listed as their UC. Anyway, the COR has intervened and stated only fully trained ASMs on trips now. They did this because of complaints from the Scouts about interfering adults, problems at the camporee that had the SM and several ASMs want to quit, and my family quitting. Core adults Scouters and COR had a chat over the problem, and he is intervening. All of the families were OK with this rule, except 3, and the two loudest in their protestations are the 2 trouble-making families. As you know from previous threads on these two, there have been 5 parent meetings called because they were interfering, multiple private sessions with one family over their interference, threats to leave camp outs if they didn't get their way (which would leave the troop stranded), and in one instance one family actually did leave when they didn't get their way (thankfully there were enough drivers that it didn't affect us). So there is a history of ignoring the SM and ASMs and doing there own thing. Talking to an ASM about the matter there is a concern that they will ignore the CO's new directives, and just show up. So what are some consequences for offending adults I can suggest to help this troop and CO out? I can only think of 2: A) If the families show up cancel the trip and send everyone home. B) CO sends a letter that their sons are no longer welcome to in the troop and here are some alternate troops for you to consider. I do not think A is a viable option since it hurts the entire troop, and morale is now low. Canceling trips will only hurt Scouts. Option B is really a last resort option, but it may come down to it. The troop has lost one a Life Scout, First Class Scout and ASM, over the two problem families. Another Star Scout and his ASM dad, have been considering leaving over them. And on the last camp out, the SM and several ASMs almost quit over these two families interference. Worse, it is believed that their interference has caused 1/2 of Webelos den to join a different troop. Apparently the parents meeting, which had Webelos 2 parents in it, was very acrimonious between these two families, and the core adult Scouters. And half the den decided to go elsewhere in the two weeks between the parents meeting and Cross over. In fact the troop found out about this 3 days before Cross Over. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I was one of those Scouts who got elected on the third go around. First year I was eligible, I didn't even vote for myself because the three others eligible were much better choices AND I COULD ONLY PICK TWO (emphasis). I am saddened that my Oldest, who has been eligible for 3 years now has declined to put his name on the ballot because he has no interest in the OA now. This from the kid who helped me build the chapter's drum stand before he was a Cub. And my middle son, who became eligible this year, also declined to put his name on the ballot. Some Arrowmen do care, and are disgusted at some of the things allowed. But I was told National has PROHIBITED lodges from ejecting anyone from the Ordeals. Notching arrows and/or ejecting folks is considered hazing, and not allowed. Once a person is a candidate, only the candidate can remove themselves from the Ordeal, not the lodge. We had an incident where an adult candidate was talking up a storm, complaining about all the work that he was being forced to do. I was all for sending him home when the lodge adviser told me that is no longer an option because national considers it "hazing." All we could do was separate him from the rest of the candidates so his negativity would not affect them. Irony was one of the "Friends" working with the candidates was on medical restrictions, and was pushing the envelope to set a good example.

While there is more to the OA than ceremonies and camp maintenance, these two items are the heart and soul of the OA. The original purpose was to recognize HONOR CAMPERS (emphasis) and not be just an honor society. Arrowman are charged with promoting camping and maintaining council camps. Service is the heart of the OA. When National changed the OA from National Brotherhood of Honor Campers" to the "National Honor Society of the Boy Scouts of America " in 1995 or thereabouts, the OA lost some of it's heart. The Native American based ceremonies were created to inspire and motivate potential members and Arrowmen. The ceremonies created a unique experience to get the Order's purpose instilled in them. These ceremonies were the soul of the OA. I still remember my first experience with the OA: my Arrow of Light and Cross Over Ceremonies. And while some memories of my Ordeal Ceremony are hazy due to exhaustion at the time and other Ordeal Ceremonies I attended as a "Friend" to candidates, I do remember being inspired to continue my journey in Scouting and the Order. I remember as a ceremonialist the looks of those Scouts' faces and seeing them proud, inspired, and motivated. One of the ways I would reinvigorate OA chapters, or even start a new chapter, was the creation of ceremony teams to inspire and motivate others. And it worked. THAT IS BECAUSE THE CEREMONIES ARE THE SOUL OF THE ORDER. ( emphasis) When the 63 ADULTS (emphasis) on the national OA committee would not listen to the overwhelming majority of it youth members voices, and stated no more Native American regalia for Arrow of Light and Cross Over Ceremonies, the soul of the OA was greatly diminished. And I predict that soon, the OA 's soul will be completely dead as the ceremonies will be changed to remove any Native American influence.

UNDERSTATEMENT! I've seen the OA slowly deteriorate since National decided some aspect of the Ordeal is 'hazing." and had to be stopped. Now there are no consequences for not following the challenges. Nor are there any consequences when one defiantly and deliberately violates the Ordeal challenges except to create a separate work party by themselves. Whereas once the lodge could have sent the problem home, now the lodge has to accept the problem as a member.And they will be a "sash and dasher." And the deterioration accelerated when National changed the current election procedure in the 1990s. Whereas it was truly an honor to get elected because only 1/2 of those eligble could be written on the ballot, the honor has been diminished now that everyone eligible can be written on the ballot.

Sadly we had an incident in my council 20 years ago where a mom, dad, and grandfather, serving as committee chairman, ASM, and SM respectively, signed off on a bunch of requirements and MBs. When it came time for his Eagle BOR, it was obvious that he did not do the work. Eagle BOR followed procedure, came up with a plan and asked him to come back when completed. family appealed to council, and the council concurred with the district EBOR. Family then appealed to national. National granted the Eagle stating you don't punish the Scout because of the adults in the unit. Entire district advancement committee resigned in protest.

Hikeoholic is correct. Associate Chapter Adviser would be the more appropriate patch. However, at one time, they didn't have those patches. Folks would be "Co-Advisers" in some areas. We still have one guy calling himself "Chapter Co-Adviser" and wearing the Chapter Adviser patch. Considering he has been doing the same jobs for the chapter and lodge for over 30 years, no one is complaining.

Agree. I have found Scouters tend to either A) be harder on their own kids than other Scouts or B) "pencil whip" the requirements. There have been a few instances where I had to sign off for my sons because I am the only registered MBC for the merit badge. I make darn sure others are shown the work and can verify that the requirements were actually met. And that I am not to hard on my sons.

Unless it's a homemade one. One den made a plaque with the DL patch and their signatures burned into it. 110% AGREE! This has happened to me several times, and I am looking forward to attending one of my Eagle's wedding in March. Necker signed by the Scouts is AWESOME!. My most treasured gift is a photo album that was given to me when I left the troop I grew up in. A very close second was a copy of the 1979 edition BSHB that one of my Eagles gave me. He knew my original copy was no more and got me one, Another idea is a Norman Rockwell print. One of my Eagles got me "The Den Chief" since it is closest to our relationship. Some of the things I've seen include gift certificates to diners, coolers, coffee mugs, and a camp chair. Someone on Scouter.com received a Campaign hat from his den or pack.

Spasiba.

According to https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fellow Fellow is gender neutral today. Definition of fellow 1 : comrade, associate was eager to rejoin his fellows 2a : an equal in rank, power, or character : peer discussions among a group of fellows from the nearby Los Alamos National Laboratory— Roger Lewin b : one of a pair : mate 3 : a member of a group having common characteristics specifically : a member of an incorporated literary or scientific society a fellow of the American College of Surgeons 4a obsolete : a person of one of the lower social classes b archaic : a worthless man or boy c : man, boy He seems like a fine fellow. d : boyfriend, beau She and her fellow went to the movies. 5 : an incorporated member of a college or collegiate foundation especially in a British university 6 : a person appointed to a position granting a stipend and allowing for advanced study or research Synonyms

Considering the news article came out yesterday, or the day before, I think the CSE decided to do some damage control. I do not think ANYONE (emphasis) planned this email. On a tangent, Carebear, love the quote. Just realize Vader went to the Light Side of the Force in the end. I too returned from the Dark Side. To paraphrase Luke Skywalker, I know there is good in you. National hasn't driven it from you fully.

I agree 110% with this. My old CO has been looking for females to step up and become the SM and ASMs . They have gotten no interest in those roles, only committee roles. Irony is that the two ladies who names keep popping up as potential female Scouters for the all girls troop all believe that going coed is a mistake on the BSA's part, and that GSUSA should have improved their program to meet the needs of the girls.

You will need to be careful doing this. We had a new troop, the size of a patrol, do joint activities for about 8-9 months. Then they merged with us. Grant you, Officially it is two separate troops, but many adults I've talked to siad the reality will be a single, coed troop in gender segregated patrols.

Are the boys in these troops truly for it, or is it adults saying OK with being linked? I ask because in my neck of the woods, the majority of the boys are against being linked troops. But the majority of adults seem to have no problems. In the troop I just left, the majority of adults were fine with being a "linked troop." The adults stated it would be coed in all but name. However when they asked the boys, they were overwhelmingly against becoming a linked troop. Enough stated they would leave over being "linked" that the CO and adults backed off on it. I would go it alone if it would hurt existing Scouts.

My district's EBOR requires 2 copies of everything. One copy is for the Scout's personal records. The other is for the Council's records. I am extremely glad they require 2 copies of everything. My council lost one of my Eagles completed application. We found out they lost the application 2-3 months after it was submitted and we had not heard anything back. They said they never received it, despite them receiving the other 2 Eagle applications that were in the same package. My Eagle's copy was scanned and sent via email stat.

No worries. Don't remind me of the Kingsdown sell off. I know it had been a Scout camp since the 1940s, and I have some good memories there. And I was repeating what someone told me about UK neckers. Sadly in the US since 1972, neckers have not been required as part of the Boy Scout uniform. Each troop can make the decision to have one or not. And national has not made it easy to have either. Their standard neckers have been the wrong size for a long time, and when they finally come out with correctly sized neckers, they limited to 4 styles, then they discontinue making them. My old troop went through 4 different neckers in a 6 years. Currently they use a custom one. Troop I am in now also has a custom necker dating back to when the national stopped making them the correct size. Necker colors however date back to 1922.

Ian, What troop are you with, and did they go to Kingsdown or Youlbury in 1995? I ask because I know every necker design is registered to one group only, and I have your necker in my collection!

Pioneering projects over 6 feet in height off the top of my head. Also the ability of troops to use 18-20 year olds towards 2 deep leadership requirements. I remember being the acting SM at 19 and 20 because I was the only adult there the entire week as the two 21+ year olds had to split a week anmd no other adults were available.

One place I would add is Youlbury International Scout Campsite in Oxfordshire. It is the oldest, continually used Scoutcamp in the world, since 1912. It briefly serves as the British Boy Scout HQ during WWII when MOD took over Gilwell Park for the war.

I wonder if the fathers will continue to be treated as second class leaders like they are today? I've heard the stories of how friends with daughters have been treated by GSUSA, and do not like it one bit. If ladies in the BSA were treated like my friends were, there would be lawsuits.

While I've never stepped down as a SM, I did step down as Cub Scout Day Camp Program Director (and de facto camp director). Couple of ideas iunclude: 1) Develop a hobby 2) Do some fun things with the family

I too am worried about the OA. Neither one of my sons who are eligible are interested. The loss of the Native American theme, the spirit of the OA, is slowly dying. And in all honesty, I can no longer do the things I have done in the past to revitalize and reinvigorate chapters I have worked with as it has always been AIA and Ceremonies.

Just read that section and noticed spears and blowguns are prohibited because they supposedly serve no program purpose. I beg to differ. as MIkeS72 points out Indian Lore has uses for those items, and I have had folks build them in the past. And I have seen them as activities for the OA. Further both had applications for Wilderness Survival. This is extremely silly.

One of the reasons why I stepped down as camporee chief is because of the complaints BY THE ADULTS ( emphasis) on some of the events. #1 complaint I got before and during the wilderness survival themed camporee was the shelter building event. This was an event the Scouts wanted, and was done once at a council camporee long, long ago.I cannot tell you how many adults complained it was not feasible, it would take up too much time, there are not enough materials at camp for each patrol to do one, etc. With those complaints, and a bunch of other problems going on with the camporee, I said fine, one shelter per troop and part of the campsite inspection instead of a separate event. Then the Scouts complained that only a select few got to build shelters. As for the Camporee Guide, that is a new one for me too.

While I've seen SMs introduce the Eagle candidate, although that has only been in of of the council's I've been in, why do the parents need to accompany the Scout, especially since they are not allowed to sit in the EBOR?